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Ascend910 ,

The world we live in… :(

CableMonster ,

Housing in not expensive because of one group buying all of the housing, its expensive because housing is hard to do due to government regulations, expensive due to same regulations, and the currency has been destroyed infavor of the rich for decades. The only reason a large corporation would own SFH is because of how the fed controls the money supply and how housing is incentivized.

yogthos OP ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

🤣

Dudewitbow ,

housing is expensive because some countries see t as an investment. even in some capitalistic countries can have affordable housing (e. g japan in many areas) because how they see housing is completely different than how other capitalistic nations see housing. its why despite having a dogshit working schedule, you could still afford to live in japan even with a shitty job.

yes, regulations and stuff play a roll in why its expensive, but it doesnt adress the root cause in why it happens, and that answer is because people treat it as $$$ and not a natural right.

CableMonster ,

Housing is considered an investment based off of how the currency is controlled by the government. Japan is an outlier, on big factor is how their population is decreasing. Regulations add over $100k per SFH on average in america, so its a big deal.

Dudewitbow ,

population decreasing has nothing to do with it. South Korea, who has a worse population problem, has the polar opposite. its an absolute hell hole to buy a house because of pricing.

if what you said was true, living in south korea would be easy (hint: it actually isnt)

CableMonster ,

Japans populatin is the same as it was in 1994 and South Koreas population has increased slowly, but still increased. So population is imporatant, but I agree its not the only consideration.

GreatDong3000 ,

Why don’t you go back to reddit

davel ,
@davel@lemmy.ml avatar

I swear you are like a box of chocolates, Cablemonster. You contain multitudes.

CableMonster ,

As a person in real estate, I am directly telling you guys what makes housing expensive, if you guys think its big corporations, then you really are not thinking logically or factually on the matter.

Crikeste ,

You can lie about working in real estate all you want. You are refusing to recognize the affect the housing market has on prices.

No fucking shit houses cost a lot of money to build.

That doesn’t mean shit when a house that cost $50,000 to build now costs $750,000 to own.

CableMonster ,

You really think a house costs $50k to build?

melpomenesclevage , (edited )

I walk through the city at least a few hours a week. Every single building with residential (except sfh) has vacancies. Every single fucking one. Or at least signs announcing them.

And there are people dying on the street.

Supply outstrips demand. Maybe by a lot. And people are still dying for need. People are still working two jobs then sleeping in their cars. People are still working high paying jobs and losing half of it to rent.

There are questions a moral person can have about ‘what to do with landlords’. Questions like ‘should we torture them first’ (there are legitimate arguments against, mostly from an efficiency perspective) and ‘is physical or psychological torture more useful here?’, but at the end of the day, it all ends at the same place, and the later we start on our way, the more people will die before we get there.

CableMonster ,

I am not trying to ignore what you are saying, but every building over 10 units will probably have vacancies due to turnover, and even if they dont currently have a unit turning over they will in the near future and will be getting as many applications as they can.

And based on the other parts of your comments I dont really think you actually want a real discussion, but to be edgy.

melpomenesclevage ,

The signs saying ‘for rent’ are mostly old, many sun bleached. The one I live in has had one unit vacant for over a year.

Yeah turnover happens, but not like that.

CableMonster ,

That makes sense, they probably never take it down because a good renter is very important. If they havent filled a unit in a year, then that is just strange. Maybe they have the rent too high, not filling a unit in that long doesnt make sense.

melpomenesclevage ,

And that’s just the one across from me. They’ve also mentioned two bedrooms on the sign, and I bet the 2 BDRM unit(s) have been the same ones the whole time too. Not to say there hasn’t been any turnover, but its not up to replacement.

Ive talked to a few people with similar stories.

And yeah! The rent is consistently too damn high! With your model, that absolutely doesn’t make sense, does it? What are some other explanations for this behavior?

CableMonster ,

There are multiple things happening here that make it complicated and there are too many unknowns. If the issue is that they cant find people that qualify due to not making enough money, then this is the government currency control issue coming home to roost, which I can explain if it helps. If its an issue where the units need to make a minimum to pay for the mortgage, then its a problem with too little supply of units to buy pushing up the cost of ownership of multifamilies. I dont know what is going on in your area.

But the post seems to be about owning SFH or something owned. That is a separate issue with similar root problems.

melpomenesclevage , (edited )

The word ‘house’ in OP is not necessarily talking about sfh. That’s a nitpick. Youre doing that because you don’t actually gave an explanation.

If its property taxes, why not just sell? If its not worth it to rent out? Do you not pay property tax on empty units?

‘Can’t find people that qualify’ my dude. Supply. And. Demand. Supply outstrips demand. If theres demand not being filled and supply not being used and they’re literally right next to each other, sometimes stealing the signs advertising the supply to make going without a little easier (the corrugated plastic signs are usually white. Durable, lightweight, keeps sun and water off) then maybe the entire system is broken?

Or working as intended, and these people are supposed to die, and everyone complicit in this system deserves a fucking noose, for the murders they commited, because every city in america is becoming an open air concentration camp maintained by exactly the bullshit youre espousing and the idea that ‘it could never happen to me’?

CableMonster ,

There is a series of things you are wrong about here and I dont really want to waste my time arguing. Real estate is my business and I am sucessful at it, is there any question you want answered, because I am not going to argue anymore.

melpomenesclevage ,

Theeeere we are. So you have an interest in not seeing, and its stronger than your compassion. You identify with your Fucking job more than with your species, and fear the chance of losing some % of treats more than the certainty of people fucking dying of exposure abd pissing/shitting on the street and being exposed to countless indignities while they do it.

What would you call someone like that?

CableMonster ,

Real estate is a business, it doesnt side with one person or another… I can just explain to you why housing is expensive if you want to know, but I just think you are angry and want to yell at someone. Feel free, but it doesnt help you know the truth.

melpomenesclevage ,

I’m not angry about housing being expensive. I mean, I am, but I’m not willing to do anything about it.

I’m angry that people are being murdered for your profits. Youre killing people. And its not even for anything.

Fucking murderer. I hope, whoever you are, somebody stops you, in the only way that anyone can once youre this far gone.

CableMonster ,

Uh yeah, there is more to real estate than residential housing… I forgive you for being rude and making false accusation. Let me tell you how the system works because you dont get it and maybe it will help you point your anger in the right direction.

I take old structures that are vacant and renovate them and then sell or keep them, I do mainly offices and shops at this point. I had planned on making an old commercial building into 12 or so small apartments that would be affordable, and downtown of the smallish town I live in. The architect made the plans, they would be expensive but not crazy, the local government would not let me do this and would have cost waaaay too make it worth the cost. If the government was not obstructing development, that would be residential units, but its just storage. The government is the thing that you should be yelling at, not people that cant do the work because of them.

melpomenesclevage ,

Oh. Yeah everybody thinks “turn offices into residences” is easy.

I get that it’s not.

I get that the government isn’t helping. None of my proposed solutions are ‘government’; they want people to die. Literally fighting for it in the supreme court right now. Like most major cities you can name have signed onto a case about criminalizing homelessness even when no other legal option exists.

I’m talking about empty residential units. Commercial spaces being largely empty energy sucks on prime ground that will literally collapse if they lose climate control for three hours is its own shit show. Its not as much of an easy answer.

But I’m just talking about residential units. Empty advertised residential units.

CableMonster ,

I wasnt turning offices into residences. And it would be easy but expensive if the government wasnt so involved.

If you are arguing “Put homeless into empty residential units” that is a really ignorant argument, it instantly falls apart if you look at it.

melpomenesclevage ,

Youre acting like they’re fundamentally a different species.

CableMonster ,

Sure dude

melpomenesclevage ,

“They can’t live in the same spaces as us” like wtf, do you think they need scratching posts or they get sad? That they wither and die without a nitrogen-sulphur atmosphere?

CableMonster ,

I dont know what you are talking about.

PoopDelivery ,

So by “in real estate” you mean you’re a flipper and a landlord.

In the building you were going to convert into apartments, how much were you going to rent these affordable apartments for?

CableMonster ,

I do whatever makes sense, and I dont know what each unit would have rented for.

Facebones ,

“Sure I can’t afford housing but not allowing investment bankers to own 75% of the housing stock infringes on my personal freedom!”

octopus_ink ,

You even worked in “police exist to protect capital” at the end. Well done!

melpomenesclevage ,

People not understanding this is so fucking annoying.

Steve , (edited )

Rent is not double the mortgage.

Maybe the base mortgage payment, but you also have to pay for insurance, taxes, maintenance, utilities.

If you can’t get good terms on a mortgage you will also have a higher rate and PMI.

Yes poor people must pay more for the same house, and rent can be cheaper.

Edit- Hexbears: grow up, get a job, buy a calculator, and try to figure out why you are so wrong.

TheSlad ,

Careful, can’t have that kind of non-anti-landlord mentality here! Also buying a house is a huge financial risk and responsibility that a lot of people don’t realize.

Mortgage, interest, PMI, and taxes are not the only costs associated with owning a house by far.

Tankiedesantski ,

If porky owns all the houses he can raise rent to much higher than “market” rates due to having a monopoly on an inelastic good.

NuraShiny ,

The StarTrek guy here explaining how capitalism works. Thank you.

Steve ,

I owned a house in the past, and now I rent.

TC_209 ,

I owned a house in the past, and now I rent.

Um, grow up, get a job sweaty.

NuraShiny ,

My condolences to your financial situation I guess.

PolandIsAStateOfMind ,
@PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml avatar

Maybe he’s just Ferengi fan

Steve ,

Quark is killing it so yea kinda

TheBroodian ,

Lmao imagine watching DS9 and walking away from it idolizing Quark. Enjoy the smell of your own farts

idkmybffjoeysteel , (edited )
@idkmybffjoeysteel@hexbear.net avatar

First of all, let’s subtract the capital repayment part of the mortgage, if it isn’t an interest only mortgage to begin with, then let’s set interest rates to basically zero for over a decade. Now find me a single instance of rent being cheaper than a corresponding mortgage. You can’t. You can’t ever find a single example, except by charity. It isn’t possible. It doesn’t exist. Get it through you stupid fucking thick head. It has never happened. It is never going to happen. And if it ever does happen, it will only be true for a moment, because you know what happens to your rent every year? It goes the fuck up. Your fucking rent goes up. That means you pay more the next year than you did the year previous. Do you get that? Is that hard for you to understand? Do you know what happens to your mortgage one year to the next? You wanna know what happens? It stays the fuck the same. Do you follow? So imagine this, it’s 1995, you just bought a house for 100k, you put down a 20k deposit, your mortgage is 80k, interest rates are low, so lets say your repayment is 500 per month on average. 25 years later, you make your final payment, you now own your home outright, but guess what, it has been 25 years, and your home has doubled in value not once, but twice, and it keeps on growing, your house is now worth 450k, you couldn’t buy it today with a 20k deposit, you need a 90k deposit minimum, and what’s the repayment on a 350k mortgage? 2k? now imagine if you had been renting. over the course of 25 years, the landlord would take that mortgage repayment (including the capital repayment), add on their other expenses, then add on profit, so you would start off paying 600 per month, and over the course of 25 years, you would accumulate nothing, you would save nothing, you would own nothing, and now your monthly rent would be 2400 a month minimum. I have done the maths. My fucking career is this kind of maths. I went to university for this shit. I know what the fuck I’m talking about. Does your stupid fucking pigeon brain comprehend how many times over you would pay off your landlords mortgage over the course of 25 years, with rent going up every year? 5 fucking times minimum, 7 or 8 if you live in a capital city. Don’t fucking insult my intelligence telling me hyuck well sometimes you can get rent cheaper than a mortgage. It isn’t fucking true. You cannot will this shit to be true by saying it. It is false. a lie. untrue. incorrect. fucking wrong. but you know what is true? every fucking time I hear someone defending the rental system, they eventually admit to being a landlord themselves. fuck off porky.

well the landlord has to pay for expenses as well 🤓

fucking nerd

you know what I hate about landlords the most though is you can never fucking get them to admit that they are making money, they always cry they are barely able to cover the mortgage, and I say, OK, you can cover the mortgage, so that’s a 50% profit margin already, go fuck yourself

edit:

https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/6976e4d7-547b-4e1d-b52a-e5e26e6a8f9d.png

Fuck you.

Feel free to do your own figures, and at best make this seem marginally less obscene, I’m just trying to illustrate a point, do you want to A) pay a £200 mortgage and own a big fuck off house you can mortgage again to fund your retirement, or do you want to B) pay £1100 in rent to a parasite freak whose permission you need to paint the walls, who humiliates you with quarterly property inspections, who makes you live in disgusting conditions with mould and bug infestations and refuses to ever fix anything, and if they ever have to, they put the rent up, threaten to kick you out, and then give you a shitty reference which you fucking need if you don’t want to be homeless, and then do you want to retire with fucking nothing, because you never had a house as a savings vehicle?

people who make bullshit arguments in favour of renting should undergo mandatory cock and ball torture

and before anyone cries about my maths, even landlords on landlord websites will admit that they expect a return of at least 8% pa after expenses - if it wasn’t such a good deal for them, they wouldn’t do it, they would just put their money in stocks or something idfk

The returns are even higher if you buy a regular house and then carve it up into tiny flats unfit for human habitation

Maybe the base mortgage payment, but you also have to pay for insurance, taxes, maintenance, utilities.

Find me a landlord that doesn’t price every one of these things into the rent

Steve ,

I didnt read most of this, just enough to know you are ignorant.

OurToothbrush ,

Incredible self own

idkmybffjoeysteel ,
@idkmybffjoeysteel@hexbear.net avatar

nerd

AtomPunk ,

I didnt read

Trust us, we know you don’t

ShimmeringKoi ,
@ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net avatar

Fucking sputtering ass corncob lmao

420blazeit69 ,

You got bodied and took it like a piss baby

Bartsbigbugbag ,

“I can’t read so I’ll blame it on you.”

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

You do realize that if someone posts a thorough response and you respond by malding, you’ve clearly lost, right? What do you have to gain by malding? Making them seem even more correct? Not even an attempt to debunk, just malding and complaining that reading is difficult?

Lol. Lmao, even.

Miyabi ,
@Miyabi@iusearchlinux.fyi avatar

I read the whole thing, our system is fucked.

BurgerPunk ,
@BurgerPunk@hexbear.net avatar

bootlicker

The pigs have already won, they don’t need your support

Sam_Bass ,

Only good support for a pig is a bbq spit

qjkxbmwvz ,

“Lemmy doesn’t have the hive mind like that toxic Reddit.”

Meanwhile, you get downvoted because you’re right 🤦

For everyone downvoting, go compare Craigslist rent prices to Zillow/Redfin listing prices with 20% in a major city.

You are of course right, at least for my part of the world (high CoL USA city). Renting a 3 bedroom will run 4k for something modest (5 or 6 for something nice maybe?). Buying a 3 bedroom will run 10k or so with 20% down. Buying is definitely more expensive in the short term (long term is another story).

Only way for mortgage to be more than rent is for something purchased a while back, or for a new purchase with a large % down payment. Which absolutely happens, but sheesh, parent isn’t wrong…

Steve ,

Lemmy sure as fuck has a few big hiveminds. The strongest is the hexbear antiwork eat the rich communist group.

Edit- lol I just noticed that all the angry replies above are from hexbear

ShimmeringKoi ,
@ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net avatar

The strongest is the hexbear antiwork eat the rich communist group.

Damn right, don’t forget it

Steve ,

Luckily y’all have about as much IRL influence as a hornet nest. Get too big or too noisy and you’ll be wiped out with one can of bug spray.

Dirt_Owl , (edited )

Lmao what a little dweeb

Yeah we are angry and it’s awesome. People should be angry at people profiting off of others hardship, unless your some kind of soulless robot with no brain.

Doubledee ,
@Doubledee@hexbear.net avatar

Wait your position is that landlords are renting out places in major US cities at a lower cost than the mortgage? Are they billionaire philanthropists?

CileTheSane ,
@CileTheSane@lemmy.ca avatar

They were down voted for treating hyperbole as a “gotch ya!” It doesn’t have to literally be twice the cost of the mortgage for the fact to stand that renting is more expensive than owning.

It’s not a “hive mind” thing, it’s a “missing the point” thing.

thepaperpilot ,

Housing prices increase faster than inflation. Why do you think that is? Certainly not because housing is seen as an investment vehicle where corporations buy as much as they can just to rent out, increasing the demand and therefore price of housing beyond what the market rate would have otherwise been.

I think it's clear that landlords are making money (and even if they're not, they're at least gaining equity which will eventually make the whole thing profitable), with most of that profit coming from the mere act of owning the property and withholding it from those who need it in order to survive unless they pay - which is inherently coercive in nature, and a fork of violence against the working class performed by the owning class. Sure, there's a nominal amount of effort fees and effort, and I'm not going to knock property management, since that is actual work, but landlords primarily get their money from rent seeking (that is, however much they charge beyond their expenses).

I think the US would be a massively better place to live in if we massively taxed housing owned by corporations, or at least any properties owned by a single entity surpassing 1 or 2. The goal is to make it not profitable and not appealing as an investment, such that black rock et al see fit to unload most of all of their properties. The housing prices would and should crash, and finally be affordable again. The government might even buy a lot of them up and expand our socialized housing. Sure that last point might not be "fair" to existing home owners, but consider they are hy definition already well off enough to afford their own home and bought their homes during the time when it was still seen as an "investment" that by definition means it comes with some amount of risk. At least going forward, housing would no longer be a vehicle for investment and well on its way to becoming a human right, like it should be.

ComRed2 ,

PIGPOOPBALLS

420blazeit69 ,

grow up, get a job, buy a calculator

“The only people who struggle with housing costs are stupid children”

very-intelligent

LadyAutumn ,
@LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

It is here. We did the math, and a mortgage on a brand new house was literally half our rent at 20k down. The barrier to entry is the down payment. Those “good terms” entirely have to do with how much income you make and how much debt you have.

I pay for maintenance on my apartment. This is essentially universal where I live. Also, maintenance costs do not come anywhere near the gap between mortgage and rent payments. Mortgage is literally less than half on a very, very shitty apartment. We didn’t even have proper heating when we first moved in to our last apartment. We both work full-time jobs. The building was very close to being condemned. It was the cheapest in our town of less than 100k. Mortgage on homes less than 10 years old was legitimately half our rent. Including HOA, including insurance, including taxes and utilities, it was literally half the cost.

But 20k we do not have. And we have not been able to save even a quarter of that, as our cost of living has doubled in the last 4 years. Entirely due to profiteering by corporations and landlords.

Long and gist of it, no, unless it’s a government run property rent is literally 0 out of 10 times going to be cheaper. Do you not understand the fundamental purpose of being a landlord? Are you under some kind of delusional belief that any measurable amount of landlords are in the business of renting properties out of the kindness of their hearts? No, being a landlord is just like being a company that sells water. You’re going to charge absolutely as much as you can possibly get away with, because literally the entire purpose of being a landlord is to make money while doing as little time investment as possible. Our last landlord did literally nothing for over a year while the house fell apart around us. We gave him over 20 thousand dollars in rent. The land tax there was peanuts. He pocketed at least 10k for doing literally nothing.

The point of being a landlord is having enough net money at the start to literally not work. To literally do no labor for which they are beholden to someone. To collect tax from the serfs that occupy their land. They are part of a separate economic and social class. And profiteering is the entire reason anyone chooses to do it. There’s literally no other measurable reason. There may be one or 2 mythical landlords who are running themselves into debt cause they love their tenants or whatever the fuck, but they’re not even a thousandth of a percentile. Literally statistically irrelevant.

LordPassionFruit ,

Truly one of the systems of all time.

driving_crooner ,
@driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br avatar

The last panel could said “I guess I’m living in the streets” and the pig calling the police because there’s a homeless close their property.

Sabre363 ,

That’s the next panel

dessalines ,

Another one might be: living in their car and getting a cop called on them because a lot of places (US states mainly) have laws against sleeping in a car.

TheDoctor ,
@TheDoctor@hexbear.net avatar

Those tall lamps that most corporate chain stores install in their giant parking lots are also specifically angled to make laying down in your car difficult. It shines right in your eyes. I see a lot of people talk about hostile architecture in terms of physically stopping unhoused people from sleeping in the streets. But car sleeping has a lot of similar barriers that are otherwise invisible.

emptiestplace , (edited )

Off topic: I see your name in orange in the Voyager app. Is this a per-comment flag on Lemmy (that you have the option to set when posting), or just something apps might do based on the value of an account-level flag?

Edit: disregard, see below.

PoolloverNathan ,

Also Voyager, name isn’t orange. I haven’t seen an orange name; what version do you use?

emptiestplace ,

Oh! Thank you! I assumed these were admins or something, but it seems it highlights users on my own instance. Stupid feature.

While we’re here, how many of your comments has Voyager eaten?

PoolloverNathan ,

Voyager eats comments? Never heard of that. Also, surprisingly fast reply.

Bartsbigbugbag ,

Never had that happen, are you using the web app or the actual app? I tried the actual app and went back to the webapp almost immediately. In fact, it even saves comments I meant to discard and alerts me the next time I open the app.

emptiestplace ,

Hmm. They both do that. Why did you switch back? The app is just a wrapper around the PWA to provide a bit better integration.

Bartsbigbugbag ,

Idk, the main app seemed to have some issues loading images from certain instances, so I just went back to the pwa where it works fine. I still have it installed, but I’m a creature of habit, so at this point I doubt I’ll change for much of anything.

mexicancartel ,

Its usually your instance admins. I have seen db0 and some other mods of my own instance in orange-red

PuddingFeeling907 ,
@PuddingFeeling907@lemmy.ca avatar

They’re a lemmy dev

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