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wildbus8979 ,

Define user-friendly…

PostmarketOS or Mobian

delendum ,
@delendum@lemdit.com avatar

I have a Pine phone that I bought some time ago.

I tried a couple of distros/environments:

  • Mobian
  • Manjaro + Plasma Mobile
  • Manjaro + Phosh

My experience: As a basic phone, it mostly works. Everything else is pretty bad. The Pine phone is underpowered, the environments are not very well optimised and polished, basic browsing was almost unusable, things didn’t work properly, I had to use the CLI to get around UI issues (which is very sucky on a phone), etc. Battery life is bad, the camera is a joke (if it works), the screen has dead pixels after less than a year, it’s not a great picture.

I fully support what Pine phone is trying to do, in fact I bought 2 of them and I don’t regret buying them, but know what you are getting into. It’s nowhere near ready for mass adoption. If you’re a hobbyist then it’s a fun toy to play around with.

Purism is more expensive/better hardware and uses the Phosh graphical shell. I haven’t tried it but I imagine the experience is a lot more polished. You could probably use that as a daily driver if you were happy to give up most of the apps / quality of life stuff your spyware phone currently does for you.

If you’re not, then going the degoogled route is probably your best choice.

loopgru ,

I owned a Pine Phone Pro for a while and it was a disaster. The software is still coming together, which is expected, but the hardware was also hobby project grade. As the previous poster mentioned, battery, camera, and screen were all bad, and on top of that the phone would refuse to charge with most chargers and could not charge at all while not booted, so once the battery was dead you had zero recourse beyond an external charger. The clamshell keyboard also wouldn't work without shimming the pogo pin connectors forward, and even then it was hit or miss. The company was terrible to deal with and only finally accepted a return after escalating a dispute with Paypal. I hate dumping on a company providing hardware for mobile Linux, but these guys seriously do more harm than good.

Shatur , (edited )
@Shatur@lemmy.ml avatar

Strongly disagree. All things you mentioned are software issues. And they providing a phone with a bad specs intentionally. Because no one will buy an expensive GNU/Linux phone. We simply do not have software. The idea is to provide relatively cheap hardware, so developers can start working on it. And another reason was to provide hardware that have some GNU/Linux support already to avoid asking community to start from scratch. Very few phones can run GNU/Linux because of lack of drivers.

And yes, the keyboard is bad hardware-wise, I not satisfied with it either. But Pine did a lot for GNU/Linux on phones. Enthusiasts started writing software seriously only after PinePhone appearance.

poVoq ,
@poVoq@slrpnk.net avatar

the original post was about the PinePhone Pro though, and I think the high price of it, versus the low built quality and subsequent low number of developers trying to improve the software side, is a real shame.

IMHO, Pine64 tried to up-premium their products with the PineNote and the PinePhone Pro, but that totally failed and at least for the PineNote they admitted the sales were atrocious.

Shatur ,
@Shatur@lemmy.ml avatar

and I think the high price of it

I wouldn’t call PPP expensive. It’s a just more powerful version of PP for those developers (yes, for developers, it’s written in bold on their website) who want a more powerful unit. Yes, you can buy a more powerful phone for this price, but it’s not because Pine64 greed. They simply doesn’t have as big production capacity as other rich companies. The more phones you produce, the cheaper price for unit, this is how it works.

low built quality

PP(P) have okay build quality. I have complains only about keyboard.

subsequent low number of developers trying to improve the software side

It’s a community project, Pine does not develop the software at all. They only providing hardware and relies on community to build software for it. It’s kinda unique business model, but it’s the only way to make GNU/Linux phones popular. They are not Google, they can’t invest billions of dollars to develop the software. Thanks to Pine64, developers (including me) can port and write their software for Linux on phones. I have both phones and I see how much the situation has improved. We are still far from Android, but it makes me happy to see progress in this direction.

poVoq ,
@poVoq@slrpnk.net avatar

I am well aware, but the PPP included some expensive “premium” features like licensed gorrilla glas and so on, which do nothing for the developer experience and made the price unattractive for a impulse buy to tinker with it. If they can sell the Pinebook Pro for around 250€ they could have also made a Pinephone Pro for 300€, but it actually costs double that.

Compared to the original PinePhone the developer uptake of the PPP has been really slow and as a result the software support is severely lacking even now, more than a year after the initial availability.

Shatur , (edited )
@Shatur@lemmy.ml avatar

I am well aware, but the PPP included some expensive “premium” features like licensed gorrilla glas and so on, which do nothing for the developer experience

It’s great when developers daily drive what they write since it’s a community project and there is no quality control. I personally was happy when PPP was announced and bought it because I couldn’t daily drive PP, the hardware is too outdated for me. I honestly would prefer even RK3566, its more powerful and less hungry. But users can still can buy PP.

Compared to the original PinePhone the developer uptake of the PPP has been really slow

PP is around since 2020. And it was in a similar state. Also initial GNU/Linux support were different. Especially camera.

And I also made a mistake in my first comment. I wanted to write that all issues are software issues. I’m so sorry.

loopgru ,

All things you mentioned are hardware issues. [...] Because no one will buy an expensive GNU/Linux phone.

There's a difference between budget or low end components and flawed implementation or design. I didn't go in expecting a newer Snapdragon and a 144hz display- but neither did I go in expecting that it couldn't charge when dead. I didn't go to Denny's expecting filet mignon, but neither was I expecting a dirty tennis shoe on a plate. That was the whole point of my comment. The last thing mobile Linux needs is for people's first experience of it to be a semi-functional piece of hacked-together hardware- even if someone's willing to deal with in-dev software, when the thing straight up won't work it's not a good look.

Shatur ,
@Shatur@lemmy.ml avatar

All things you mentioned are hardware issues

Oh, I’m so sorry, I wanted to write “software”. Edited. For example, charging when the phone is dead will be fixed soon with proper bootloader, megi already submitted patches to u-boot. It will also reduce power consumption in suspend.

boonhet ,

Purism is more expensive/better hardware

Purism somehow has even worse hardware than the pinephone pro.

You pay about 50-100 dollars for the specs and between 1200 and 2000 dollars for phosh, the gnome-based phone shell. Which is free to use, but when you buy form Purism, you’re paying for its’ development.

Matt ,

They are not ready for regular use yet. Performance is poor and battery life is bad. It’s fun to play with my Pinephone and watch the software slowly improve, but there is no way I could use it as my primary phone.

InFerNo ,

The only real issue holding it back for me is the battery life. I update the danctnix distro regularly to check progress, but the battery life is not production ready.

Shatur ,
@Shatur@lemmy.ml avatar

You could buy the Pine keyboard to extend the battery life.

InFerNo ,

True, I have considered it but

  • They don’t come cheap
  • They make it less a phone and more a mini laptop by having to open it up to use
  • Increases thickness
Shatur , (edited )
@Shatur@lemmy.ml avatar

Sure, there are drawbacks, but I think it worth it. It not only fixes the battery life, but also provides hardware typing which is important because we don’t have swipe-typing.

I wish they made a slider keyboard…

poVoq ,
@poVoq@slrpnk.net avatar

Check out !linuxphones

joel_feila OP ,
@joel_feila@lemmy.world avatar

i will thanks

original_ish_name ,

Use /c/[email protected] if youre on a different lemmy instance

poVoq ,
@poVoq@slrpnk.net avatar

Which is what I did 😜

OrkneyKomodo ,
@OrkneyKomodo@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Did the same as you. On CalyxOS on a Pixel 5 ATM. Figured I’d circle back & try my PinePhone again at some point.

joel_feila OP ,
@joel_feila@lemmy.world avatar

i do love my choice so far. my also came with email an cloud storage so i have taken steps to deggoole more of my life

Wheeljack ,

Buddy had one. Second-hand, it seemed like a tremendous pain in the ass, didn't allow him to do most things, and in the end it seemed a moot point. The radios are all closed source/proprietary, it connects to closed source/proprietary/corporate-controlled towers, and you're sending data to people running totally insecure devices. Ultimately his use case was to just establish a VPN connection to his home computer and route everything through that.

I can see getting into a Linux phone for the interest of the operating system and trying to push the technology, but if it's a security/privacy issue, I think you're much better off either using a dumbphone or a burner.

shinnoodles ,
@shinnoodles@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah I’m mainly interested in the tech and pushing it as an option. Android ROMs are waaaaay better for privacy/security. It’s hard to recommend a Linux phone unless you’re a techie, Linux enthusiast, or a dev.

I don’t have one yet but I’d like to try one when I can casually spend a few hundred bucks on one.

FreeBooteR69 ,
@FreeBooteR69@kbin.social avatar

I have a librem 5, i use it to make/receive calls and it seems to work fine, though for anything else it is too anemic. Also eats through the battery like crazy, even shut down, it slowly drains.

sam ,
@sam@lemmy.ca avatar

PostmarketOS on oneplus6 is nice. 👍

ScotinDub ,

For the uninitiated, what is that? I am using lineageos on oneplus 6t at the mo

sam ,
@sam@lemmy.ca avatar

Linux operating system that is compatible with a few of android phones.

wiki.postmarketos.org/…/OnePlus_6T_(oneplus-fajit…

ScotinDub ,

Very cool! Is the battery life any good? Tempted to try it

gzrrt ,
@gzrrt@kbin.social avatar

Battery life is pretty decent, but I haven't had a 100% success rate with some of the basics like calls and texts. I've enjoyed using it as a kind of mini-tablet though, with no SIM (will keep trying again periodically).

ScotinDub ,

Ah ok, I will keep an eye on it! Really exciting project

sam ,
@sam@lemmy.ca avatar

Battery life has been excellent on the oneplus6. As others have said, there are some major issues, such as GPS and the camera not working at all. Calls were giving me issues a few months ago, but nowadays with “edge” (the latest release) they’re quite reliable.

With all the bugs and problems, I could use PostmarketOS every day with minimal issues, I used it exclusively for just over a week and it was fine. I think in ~2-3 years I’ll be using Linux on mobile as my main device.

jvrava9 ,
@jvrava9@lemmy.ml avatar

Some people got it to run on iPhones as well! Link 1Link 2Link 3

kanzalibrary ,
@kanzalibrary@lemmy.world avatar

+1 for this. PostmarketOS is definitely best privacy minded linux portable on smartphone.

CalcProgrammer1 ,
@CalcProgrammer1@lemmy.ml avatar

Unfortunately it’s not fully usable on the OnePlus 6/6T yet. I would love to daily drive my 6T but it only has working audio for the first call before you have to power cycle it. VoLTE doesn’t work so you have to use 2G mode if you want to receive calls.

bjoern_tantau ,
@bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de avatar

After having had a Nokia N900 they are a big disappointment. Especially from a performance standpoint. I have no idea why that is. Especially if I compare them to something like an old Raspberry Pi which can still give you a good desktop experience.

ghostermonster ,

N900 is from year 2009…

bjoern_tantau ,
@bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de avatar

That’s my point. Compared to today’s hardware that thing was just a small calculator. And still it managed to deliver snappy performance.

I really miss it.

xycu ,

I still use my N900, basically just for ssh over wifi these days. It is so so so much better than typing on a virtual keyboard, especially in a terminal where I have keyboard shortcuts set up for home/end/pgup/pgdn/tab/etc. The original Nokia battery from 2009 is still live and kicking! The keyboard and slide form factor were great. Even the resistive touch screen, when used with the stylus, is very accurate.

Persen ,

The only usable distro is sailfishos, but it is not fully free software. It even has android app support.

Ew0 ,
@Ew0@lemmy.fmhy.ml avatar

This

KindaABigDyl ,
@KindaABigDyl@programming.dev avatar

The big sticking point for me is the camera. It seems like they all have bad (or even non-functioning) cameras. I don’t own a camera. My phone is my camera. I can’t switch to a phone that can’t be my camera.

joel_feila OP ,
@joel_feila@lemmy.world avatar

Well with all the models that use lineage os you could probably find a good camera

KindaABigDyl ,
@KindaABigDyl@programming.dev avatar

LineageOS is Android. I think it was implied the user meant GNU/Linux distros on phones like Mobian or PostmarketOS which run on things like the Pine Phone since if we were talking about using Android, we could just keep our current phones, so that’s what I was referring to when I said they had bad cameras

CalcProgrammer1 ,
@CalcProgrammer1@lemmy.ml avatar

I have been daily driving a PinePhone/Pro but I keep my old Galaxy Note 8 close by if I’m going anywhere I want a camera.

mrXYZ ,

@CalcProgrammer1 @KindaABigDyl
How does the battery stack against galaxy? My biggest concern is getting Linux phone that will act like it has 3-4 year old battery that is clearly dying.

CalcProgrammer1 ,
@CalcProgrammer1@lemmy.ml avatar

The battery on the PinePhones is pretty terrible unfortunately. The processors just eat way too much power. There is a patch being worked on that reduces idle power draw on the PinePhone Pro, but it still won’t get you near a modern Android phone. The keyboard case is helpful in part because it adds 2x the internal battery capacity, but it’s still going to need charging more often than a Galaxy. At least the battery is removable. Maybe they can fix it with software, but I doubt it will ever get to the same power consumption levels of a modern Android just because the PinePhone and Pro are using such outdated (and not mobile-focused) chips. They had to choose the chips based around what had good Linux support, not based on what had good power consumption unfortunately.

The OnePlus 6T with postmarketOS is showing potential though, with much better battery life than the PinePhone. However, calling support still has some issues so I can’t recommend it as a daily driver even for the basic call and text use case. Hopefully soon, as the hardware is a lot better in both performance and power consumption/battery life.

sab ,

Ubuntu Touch on an Android phone might provide some middle ground. I have an old Nexus 6P with Ubuntu Touch on it, the camera is performing surprisingly well - better than some popular open source camera apps I have tried on Android. :)

spacemanspiffy ,

I’m using a Librem 5 for about two months now very happily, but I admit its not yet for everyone.

independantiste ,
@independantiste@lemmy.world avatar

PostmarketOS installed on a Oneplus 6/6T using the UBPorts installer works pretty flawlessly for me. Some animations are not 100% silky smooth, but most are. Honestly a pretty good experience, it just needs a lot of polish around the corners

bev ,

How is the camera performance?

independantiste ,
@independantiste@lemmy.world avatar

Doesn’t work right now. I think you could get it to work with droidian though, but I didnt try

marcdw ,

Have the PinePhone and PP Pro. Partial to SailfishOS on both. It has the most smartphone feel if you will. Like with most the camera is pretty much a no go but I rarely use them anyway.

sab ,

Do you use the PinePhone as a daily driver, or just for tinkering?

marcdw , (edited )

Just for tinkering so far. I have a habit of tossing the devices aside for long periods of time when an OS breaks badly. 😁

Technically SailfishOS handles most of the requirements to make the device a daily-driver-in-training. All but one of my Android devices are VoIP now. Getting away from carrier-based stuff (and saving money). At the moment there isn’t really anything usable on the mobile linux side (SIP, calls via XMPP - I have JMP.chat numbers) that I am aware of. On SFOS that is. Though I can use movim via browser.

Guess it is time I took the devices seriously and try to use them more regularly.

original_ish_name ,

Sailfish is proprietary garbage

marcdw ,

Okay. 🙄

original_ish_name ,

Except it is proprietary. The UI, Android compatibility layer, etc are proprietary

Ew0 ,
@Ew0@lemmy.fmhy.ml avatar

The UI is also really, really nice and it’s quite polished overall. It’s mainly open-source.

shu ,
@shu@iusearchlinux.fyi avatar

my librem 5 just sits in my drawer, not usable as a primary smartphone IMHO.

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