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Should I give Arch a shot?

I’ve been using Linux as my main OS for a couple of years now, first on a slightly older Dell Inspiron 15. Last year I upgraded to an Inspiron 15 7510 with i7-11800H and RTX3050. Since purchasing this laptop I’ve used Manjaro, Debian 11, Pop OS, Void Linux, Fedora Silverblue (37 & 38) and now Debian 12. I need to reinstall soon since I’ve stuffed up my NVIDIA drivers trying to install CUDA and didn’t realise that they changed the default swap size to 1GB.

I use this laptop for everything - development in C/C++, dart/flutter, nodejs and sometimes PHP. I occasionally play games on it through Proton and sometimes need to re-encode videos using Handbrake. I need some amount of reliability since I also use this for University.

I’ve previously been against trying Arch due to instability issues such as the recent GRUB thing. But I have been reading about BTRFS and snapshots which make me think I can have an up to date system and reliability (by rebooting into a snapshot). What’s everyone’s perspective on this, is there anything major I should keep an eye on?

Should also note I use GNOME, vscode, Firefox and will need MATLAB to be installed, if there is anything to do with those that is problematic on Arch?

Edit: I went with Arch thanks everyone for the advice

unionagainstdhmo OP ,
@unionagainstdhmo@aussie.zone avatar

Thanks everyone for your advice, I decided to install Arch, I’ve got it all set up with BTRFS and snapper with automatic snapshots through snap-pac.

The only problems in the install were that the default BTRFS subvolume layout given by archinstall gives an @.snapshots subvolume. If you want to use snapper with the root subvolume you need to unmount and remove this subvolume so that snapper can create a new one.

The other problem was that once the proprietary NVIDIA driver is installed gdm will force X11 still on Hybrid graphics laptops. Just had to symlink the gdm config to null which is mentioned in the wiki for drivers older than 470 on single GPU set-ups. Sorry don’t have the links on me.

Otherwise all set up now, we’ll see how this goes

Frederic ,

No, go straight to MX Linux you’ll have Nvidia driver, and luks/btrfs and snapshot etc OOB.

virtualbriefcase ,

My 2c would be yes only if you’re specifically seeking out the bleeding edge and don’t mind or enjoy doing the neccesary tinkering.

Alsp you have time in between now and a re-install I’d highly recommended trying to do you’re day to day stuff in an Arch VM for a bit and see if it works for you.

mcepl ,
@mcepl@lemmy.world avatar

My answer is “No”. Don’t do distro-hopping. It is only waste of time and distraction from actually learning Linux properly. Concerning BTRFS (and I write it as a user of openSUSE which has been supporting it for the longest time), I am absolutely certain that Debian can use it as well as any other distro. Just don’t do the distro-hopping.

wuphysics87 ,

Different strokes for different folks. I did nothing but distro hop for my first month or so. You learn a hell of a lot using different package managers and how distros do the same thing different ways. My advise is to have fun and enjoy yourself. If it isn’t a chore, you’ll coming back and you’ll always learn something new.

fxt_ryknow ,

My Proxmox cluster has 10+ distros so I can distro hop my heart out. I like bouncing between various distro to stay fresh with package managers… And more specifically the various synax when using various distros

BackOnMyBS ,
@BackOnMyBS@lemmy.world avatar

on the other end of the spectrum, if you really don’t want to learn shit about linux, use Linux Mint. it’s easier to install than Windows, and I only use the terminal for updates using lolcat so I can feel like a rainbow hacker.

frequent questions and thoughts I have as a Linux Mint user:

  • why tf is everyone arguing about over whatever systemd is?
  • wow, that guy uses Arch, btw 😮
  • I don’t understand this Linux meme
  • where is this program installed??
  • wtf are Vulcan Shaders?
  • should I use apt or apt-get to install? eh, it depends on how lazy I’m feeling
  • check out my screenfetch. I’m such a hacker.
  • i wonder if the people on Linux Mint forums are sick of me asking for help without helping anyone else.
  • all these Linux privacy benefits don’t mean shit since I use Chrome
  • how come no one ever brags about Cinnamon?
cows_are_underrated ,

Systemd is a Programm starter which is used for starting your system programms. It made a lot of things much easier, but since there’s no competitor people are arguing about it for ethical reasons since it can do literally anything it wants to do. Vulkan is the Linux equivalent do directX on Windows. Also, Cinnamon is bloat and actually a kinda bad design. KDE and gnome have a lot of things that are much better than in Cinnamon. Cinnamon is good for new users who need the “Windows like System” but I personally don’t like it at all.

BackOnMyBS ,
@BackOnMyBS@lemmy.world avatar

I appreciate the info. If you don’t mind, what’s directX?

I went with Cinnamon because I assumed that LM was streamlined for it, but I have used both Gnome and KDE, and I really liked KDE. I can install it and give it a shot again. Thank you for the info!!

unionagainstdhmo OP ,
@unionagainstdhmo@aussie.zone avatar

It’s an API, a set of function declarations and tools, which gives a standard way to control GPUs to make them put stuff on the screen as well as 3D maths. DirectX is a proprietary standard owned and developed by Microsoft and as such only supported on Windows. Though we have libraries such as dxvk which act as DirectX drivers and instead of directly interacting with the GPU, use Vulkan, which is similar to DirectX but and open standard, to put stuff on the screen.

BackOnMyBS ,
@BackOnMyBS@lemmy.world avatar

Thank you! Now I at least know what’s taking my games on Steam so long to start

BackOnMyBS ,
@BackOnMyBS@lemmy.world avatar

So I installed Kubuntu, and I LOVE KDE. Thanks for the encouragement 😀

SeeMinusMinus ,
@SeeMinusMinus@lemmy.world avatar

I really like KDE. My current system is fedora KDE spin though I also have sway installed but I don’t use it much. I changed some KDE keybinds to feel more like sway and i3.

BackOnMyBS ,
@BackOnMyBS@lemmy.world avatar

cool! i went with kubuntu, but am interested in other distros because of the issues with snap. i’ve heard good things about kde neon. what do you think about that? any other kde recommendations? im not a linux amateur professional, btw.

SeeMinusMinus ,
@SeeMinusMinus@lemmy.world avatar

While fedora kde spin is my favorite some other good opinions are opensuse, debian, and something arch based if you want something a bit different. Out of all of those debian will feel the most comfy but its not known for having up to date packages since they do lots of testing before pushing an update.

BackOnMyBS ,
@BackOnMyBS@lemmy.world avatar

cool 😎 beans 🫘

I’m waiting for my brain to come back, then I’ll do some testing. You’re right about Debian being a bit behind for my taste. I hear great things about Fedora, but that means I’d have to learn a whole new distro compared to Debian based ones. I still might give it a try on a laptop to see what I think. Arch is way too much for my level of Linux competence and willingness to put effort into learning and troubleshooting it. I’ve heard good things about Tuxedo OS, though the YouTuber that promoted it was transparent that he was being paid by Tuxedo for advertisement.

If you don’t mind sharing just a little, what do you think I should know or read up on regarding switching to Fedora? Or another way of asking is what difficulties can I expect and how can I prepare? I’m guessing the terminal commands, installation process, and package repos would work differently? Also, since Fedora uses a different package system (so not deb), would I be more limited on what programs I can install in general?

SeeMinusMinus ,
@SeeMinusMinus@lemmy.world avatar

The main version of fedora comes with gnome but you have opinions for KDE. A lot of people just install KDE along side gnome but I like Fedora KDE spin because it feels cleaner not having the gnome apps. Even though you can use fedora right after install there are a few things most people like to do first. You will use dnf (its like apt but in fedora) and flatpaks mostly.

  • Fedora doesn’t have the best multimedia by default so you need to install some stuff using this thing here.
  • Next you should enable rpm fusion. rpm fusion lets you install more stuff using fedoras package manager dnf. look here to see how to enable rpm fusion.
  • Next enable flathub. flathub adds more packages to flatpak. flatpak in fedora here.

After that you should be good to go. With rpm fusion and flathub there really isn’t going to be any packages you can get in debian but not fedora

BackOnMyBS ,
@BackOnMyBS@lemmy.world avatar

thank you! 😊

noddy ,

I’ve been using arch for many years now. I’ve used various distros every once in a while, but I always come back to arch. When arch break it is probably a single package that is causing the issue, and there is likely a forum post explaining how to fix it already when you have an issue. However if I manage to break ubuntu for example, I always have a bad time getting the system back up without a reinstall. I haven’t tried using BTRFS for snapshots yet, but I usually format my drive to BTRFS for new systems/reinstalls now, so I have the opportunity at least. Don’t know if snapshots would have made a difference for the GRUB issue that happened though. Thankfully it didn’t affect me as I use systemd-boot instead.

I also use Gnome, vscode and firefox. Don’t know about matlab but there is a wiki page and an aur package, so I think it should work. For gnome if you use extensions, I recommend installing them from the aur, instead of from the web browser, as you won’t need to manually update them. For vscode, there is an aur package for the official version from microsoft, but there is also a FOSS version on the main repo (though some extensions may not work/be available out of the box on that one).

One issue arch users may get after a while is the hard drive filling with cached packages. Pacman doesn’t delete old packages from the cache automatically, so if you never clear the cache, you will get a copy of every version of every package you’ve ever installed in the cache. I’ve made it a habit now every once in a while I’ll clear the cache, after an update and I’ve confirmed the system works after the update. There’s a command “paccache” from the “pacman-contrib” package that’s convenient for clearing cached packages.

Alpharius ,
@Alpharius@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

If you want to learn arch linux for the sake of learning about how to manually configure Linux yourself why not. However if you have done a minimal install of void linux (without xfce and bundled) you are not going to learn much.

Arch Linux can be great if you really want to customize your setup and have fun doing so. Arch can be great if you enjoy having a unique looking environment with an extensive wiki to help you doing so. However it is not the “best” unlike arch fans would say, pacman can have issues updating your system using the AUR and not being careful can sometimes lead you to annihilating your own OS at times (though I have heard that recent updates try to fix that). Besides the full customization it doesn’t have much for it.

Gentoo is epitome of customization where you compile your OS and chose specific versions (even binaries) of what you want. Void Linux is really fast with the xbps package manager being nearly as fast as pacman and its unique init system which makes it book under 5 seconds using a SSD NVMe. Fedora, Debian and Pop OS are the most used because of how simple and stable they are, and having the largest amount of support from non FOSS developers.

So f you want to have fun customizing your stuff without having to compile everything: sure why not. Otherwise just try something else.

blackbrook ,

I’d recommend openSUSE Tumbleweed instead. They originated the btrfs setup that lets you rollback in the grub menu, which has been copied by others. They are bleeding edge except that all packages go through an automated testing system before being rolled out so there’s much less breakage to start with.

unionagainstdhmo OP ,
@unionagainstdhmo@aussie.zone avatar

How well does openSUSE Tumbleweed handle proprietary stuff like NVIDIA drivers?

AnUnusualRelic ,
@AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world avatar

I’ve been using it on my main box for a few years with a 1070 and then a 2080 without issues. Not that it means anything. I’ve never really had issues with nVidia despite running Linux for 25+ years and having used a fair number of their cards, but according to the Internet I’m the only one on the planet. So YMMV.

blackbrook , (edited )

There is definitely a caveat with nvidia. The nvidia repo is managed external to the main repos, so it is possible for a new kernel to drop in the system repo and the nvidia repo not yet be updated with a compatible driver.

I always wait a few days on such updates and watch the mailing lists for problems especially from nvidia users. So far I’ve only experienced problems due to prime wonkiness that required re-running a couple of prime commands. I haven’t had to use the boot-from-btrfs-snapshot yet, but it’s a nice security blanket.

Drug_Shareni ,

From what I’ve seen it’s far from bleeding edge. A few months ago I compared it to other rolling release distros and it was by far the most out of date.

blackbrook ,

Tumbleweed? Could you have been looking at Leap?

Drug_Shareni ,

There’s always a chance I messed up, but afaik it was tumbleweed. Although I was looking for some programming and niche packages, not something popular like Firefox.

adam ,
@adam@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

IMHO arch is way too overrated. It does include a lot of stuff in the repos that others don’t have, but the benefit end there in my opinion. My experience on fedora has been way better.

Holzkohlen ,

I really enjoy using Garuda Linux. Arch based, using btrfs with snapshots preconfigured. Most beginner friendly arch based distro IMHO. I even prefer it to EndeavourOS. I use the KDE lite version tho, not big on their theming. Garuda is also my favorite rolling release.

drwankingstein ,

one thing ill say. flutter via aur is kinda a pain, I would reccomend installing the flutter package, not flutter-git, then adding it to ignore-pkg in /etc/pacman.conf then letting flutter handle updates

unionagainstdhmo OP ,
@unionagainstdhmo@aussie.zone avatar

Interesting, at the moment I’m using the snap package since that’s what’s officially supported, so I should probably stick to that (for simplicity)

drwankingstein ,

I myself detest snap, avoiding them whenever possible, the manual install method is also officially supported which is more or less what the aur does

chocolatine ,

P

GustavoM ,
@GustavoM@lemmy.world avatar

You make it sound like its a paid distro – just go ahead and give it a shot. Worst case scenario – you’ll learn lots of new things and will give your brain a few extra, healthy braincells. :')

myogg ,

It is paid for, with your time ;)

lloram239 ,

I’ve previously been against trying Arch due to instability issues

Skip Arch and go straight to NixOS if you are worried about that. Gives you most of the same advantages (huge up to date package collection) with none of the disadvantages (everything can be downgraded, patched, rolledback, etc. with ease).

fraydabson ,

Yeah once I’m brave enough to move OS on my server (currently running Ubuntu server) I want to switch it to NixOS.

I’m spinning up a VM first to better understand it.

lloram239 ,

Installing the Nix package manager on another distribution is also an easy way to get familiar with it without making the full switch.

fraydabson ,

Didn’t even cross my mind. So I can install it on my current Ubuntu server to get familiar with it. Def gonna try.

schizosfera ,

I would try it in a VM first. But maybe you are braver than I.

lloram239 ,

When installed on another distribution in single-user mode it goes into its own directory and only activates when you run a script. It doesn’t touch or interact with the main distributions beyond that. In multi-user install it installs a build daemon service, but that’s all. It doesn’t touch /usr, it’s all done via $PATH and friends.

zwekihoyy ,

nix package manager works on all posix compliant os’ and doesn’t touch system directories. everything is stored in /nix/store and symlinked to ~/.nix-profile.

personally I run an arch build and then only use nix for my packages.

hottari ,

Arch is bound to break every once in a while, that’s just the deal you get with a rolling release distro. If stability is all you want, you can go with the BTRFS snapshots and hope to heavens this setup doesn’t break or use something stable like Debian or Fedora.

original_ish_name ,

Everything is bound to break every once in a while, that’s just the deal with software that updates

KrankyKong ,

deleted_by_author

    •
    hottari ,

    Disagree. Arch is not stable at all, couldn’t be even if you wanted it to be.

    Bugs and regressions get introduced upstream all the time, these have a tendency to slip from testing into the main repos.

    Case in point, a recent glib2 update was causing NetworkManager to coredump sporadically.

    And you have to always use downgrade. Example, the newer 6.5 kernels break thermald 2.5.4 for me, so I have to downgrade a step downwards.

    Are these problems because of Arch? Not necessarily but the rolling release model has a role to play in these types of regressions & bugs.

    An LTS type of distro will face other different types of bugs. Outdated software libraries/dependencies that are rendered incompatible etc.

    But these are few and far between compared to rolling release where everything is in a constant state of change.

    superkret ,

    I literally never had a visible bug on Arch, whereas my last Ubuntu install greeted me with an error message because some part of gnome crashed right on first boot.
    I realize this is anecdotal, though.

    super_mario_69 , (edited )
    @super_mario_69@hexbear.net avatar

    I love arch and I’m incredibly biased, but here goes. I have used Arch exclusively for the past n years. All of the things you’ve mentioned will work great. The AUR absolutely rules. It’s rather similiar to Void in the sense that it’s a completely blank slate, so it’s going to be as unique an experience as you make it.

    Arch is really stable and reliable as long as you don’t break it, really. Out of the handful of times I’ve fucked up my install, all of them have been my own fault. Fortunately Arch is (relatively) easy to fix: keep a live USB on hand and chroot into your physical drive with arch-chroot and unfuck whatever needs unfucking. I haven’t ever had to completely start over from scratch a single time. It’s a learning experience!

    Go for it, I say. Try it in a VM beforehand if you gotta.

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