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I_like_cats ,

I think Snap has the potential to be better than Flatpak. It’s a real sandbox instead of the half-assed shit Flatpak has going on. The problem I have with Snap is that Canonical keeps the Server closed-source. I don’t want a centralized app store where Canonical can just choose to remove apps they don’t like. So as long as the Server is closed-source, I will stay on Flatpak

PlexSheep ,
@PlexSheep@feddit.de avatar

That and these damn annoying loop devices.

MigratingtoLemmy ,

Is Flatpak not a container system?

MentalEdge ,
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

Kind of? Maybe?

It has similar goals to something like docker, but goes about it very differently, and it’s obviously meant for user-facing applications.

You wouldn’t use docker to install steam, but you can use flatpak.

MigratingtoLemmy ,

I asked the question because of the label “half-assed” that the commenter above me put on Flatpak. I do not know much about snap, Flatpak and how they differ (other than the fact that both are used as containerisation technologies for desktop apps and the former is by Canonical), and why Flatpak is necessarily worse that snap (by what metric? System performance? Storage?)

MentalEdge ,
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

They are referring to flatpaks level of security. It’s sandboxing leaves a lot to be desired, as I’ve understood it.

Johanno ,

Well probably because you usually don’t want it so secure that it doesn’t function correctly anymore.

On snap I often need the --classic option to get sth running because it won’t run properly in a full ssndbox

Shrexios ,

@MigratingtoLemmy @I_like_cats I wondered about that, but to me it just feels like an isolated file system based app structure, kinda like the .app folders in Macs. Does that sound right?

And with permissions, you can stop the app from accessing anything outside of its specific little file system.

MigratingtoLemmy ,

I see. Thanks!

Raspin ,

I don’t know if sideloading snap apps is a thing, but it has been proven that creating a snap repo isn’t particularly difficult. Snap server being closed isn’t really an issue Imho.

caseyweederman ,

You can create a snap store proxy, but that still has to register and pull from Canonical’s source.

lloram239 ,

Isn’t the issue that snap doesn’t even support third party repos to begin with? So you’d have to patch the client before you can even access any other servers. Unless they have fixed that in the meantime.

the_crab_man ,

How is Snap’s sandbox better than Flatpak’s?

TheAnonymouseJoker ,
@TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml avatar

Snaps can integrate with system like native packages, unlike Flatpaks that stay at user level like Appimages.

rush ,

that’s really just two differences:

  • weaker separation/sandboxing (process is granted permission to everything) (mostly bad with handy usecases)
  • an alias feature for binaries contained in packages so you don’t have to run them by ID
dauerstaender ,

Go restart your browser in the middle of the day because snap just updated it in the background.

digdilem ,

Try it in enterprise where you have automated systems that deploy alert sensors and they instantly go off because each mount is 100% full.

exi ,

Pretty much every alerting system I know also has a filter option to only apply automated discovery rules to certain filesystem types.

But yes, most don’t first squashfs or mounted read-only snapshots by default and it sucks.

aaaaaaadjsf ,
@aaaaaaadjsf@hexbear.net avatar

They also kill performance if you’re still using a hard drive as your system drive. I know we should all be using SSDs, it’s 2023, but sometimes it’s not always possible

terminhell OP ,

Thankfully the OS/app drive is an SSD. The rest are spinners though. Just for low bandwidth storage.

TheAnonymouseJoker ,
@TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml avatar

Does it? I was a Ubuntu user for many years, until I made the switch to Debian 12 sometime ago. And Snaps never really slowed down things for me, despite using a 5400rpm HDD. Ubuntu on 5400rpm HDD, with its Snaps, is snappier than Windows 10 on SSD.

fernandu00 ,

That’s why I moved to fedora recently…didn’t like to see 30 or so mounted filesystems every time I did an fdisk -l to mount some disk

gigatexal ,
@gigatexal@mastodon.social avatar

@fernandu00 @terminhell I mean a simple grep to filter them out could have sufficed and then that could be aliased but yeah makes sense. Also zsys and their half assed ZFS integration made no sense.

fernandu00 ,

You’re right… But I don’t have an ssd in my machine and didn’t want tons of mounted filesystems in my 10 year old machine…I’m far from an expert but seems to me that is simpler to have all my packages from dnf or apt …I’ve changed to fedora because dnf seemed better than apt resolving dependencies …not just because of the snap thing

terminhell OP ,

Fedora is actually my main on my other machines. This is my server though. I’ve tried fedora server in the past, but it wasnt quite working for what I needed it for at the time. And now, I don’t have time to rebuild =\

MalReynolds ,
@MalReynolds@slrpnk.net avatar

Why would you server fedora when RHEL exists? Still, debian is prolly a better choice.

breezelbub ,

and why would you use rhel when you can have rocky :D

dditty ,

I’m not necessarily endorsing Fedora Server, but I’m running it on my Plex server since Fedora is the other distro officially supported by Plex (besides Ubuntu) and after I had some issues with Ubuntu Server + Plex I switched to it. Haven’t had any issues since.

fernandu00 ,

Sure…I wouldnt choose fedora for a server…maybe RHEL…I chose debian for my home server…can’t go wrong with debian in the server 😅

caseyweederman ,

Luckily Debian is upstream of Ubuntu.

curut ,
@curut@unilem.org avatar

thats why i prefer/like flatpak

brenno ,

That would be the same of hating docker because it creates networks. It’s just how it’s sandbox works.

sajran ,

Yeah, there are reasons to criticize snaps but the fact that it takes a lot of space in some UI is not really one of them.

baremetal , (edited )

I’ve never used a distro that offered/forced snaps so I’m not very familiar with this perpetual topic. Given it’s Linux and you have options why would you continue using a distribution who had a main feature you didn’t like?

Edit: Debian is server king. Proxmox, trueNAS, Clonezilla, Ubuntu you can go on and on of very niche tailored and rather amazing products that base on Debian. I’m ever curious if there are people out there using Gentoo, Arch or xyz in the server space.

Nalivai ,

I am forced to do it by my employer

KillAllPoorPeople ,

I love snaps. AMA. (but actually don’t, I don’t want to talk to you)

elouboub ,
@elouboub@kbin.social avatar

Leave ubuntu behind. Their snap fixation is toxic.

RegalPotoo ,
@RegalPotoo@lemmy.world avatar

There are plenty of reasons to dislike Snap, but tbh “it exposes the UI and UX weaknesses of other apps” isn’t really a good one

experimentmapass ,

@terminhell I use tromjaro, o have not had any problems 7 years.

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