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darkangelazuarl ,

This is incorrect. Climate change won’t destroy the planet just the people living on it. The planet doesn’t give 2 fucks.

madcaesar ,

Oh for fucks sake this comment again…

I_Fart_Glitter ,

Every time.

RIP_Cheems ,
@RIP_Cheems@lemmy.world avatar

We were doomed the moment lead was put in gasoline.

DuncanIdaho ,

What we need is guerrilla solar and wind feeding the grid. Fuck the energy companies and their fossil fuels.

I look at every lamp post here in the UK and wonder why they dont have solar like this up there. It wouldnt be too hard to install micro renewables, 100w of solar is pretty small. 200w of wind is a little bigger. But over the course of a day it would generate >1kwh of extra energy.

Then there are what are called vampire devices. I do wonder how many people turn off their TV, microwave, computer when they’re not using it? They may be up to 10w each, and on their own it doesnt seem like a problem. But when you add every phone charger, and other device thats left on standby into the equation, from all of a country even as small as the UK we’re talking Megawatts of wasted resources. Every day. I’ve lost the link now, but a couple of newspapers did surveys and found most people left devices like this.

DreadPotato , (edited )
@DreadPotato@sopuli.xyz avatar

Maximum standby power draw is already required to be lower than 1W for non-networked devices in the EU. My entire house has an idle consumption of ~150W (incl. fridge/freezer). I know that seems like a lot when every household uses that, but effort-to-gain this is not a very efficient place to optimize. Regulating industry is a much better place with significantly higher potential savings.

DuncanIdaho ,

No. We have to do both. Absolutely industry has to decarbonise - but its a hell of a lot easier to deal with the small contributors to atmospheric carbon, and rather negligent to avoid doing these things ourselves. We as individuals still add up to 25% of carbon across the world. Our driving, our devices, the food and things we buy and consume… And yes it is hard.

DreadPotato ,
@DreadPotato@sopuli.xyz avatar

Yes our total power consumption is up to 25%, our idle consumption is a negligible part of that 25%, and absolutely dwarfed by our active consumption. If you want to make a difference, start working on reducing your active power consumption instead, that’s where our best contributions towards lower energy usage can be done.

By targeting the idle consumption specifically, you’re penny pinching to make yourself feel better without doing an effort.

lostferret , (edited )

Guerilla solar will not & cannot take off. Community solar, however, yes. A “power co-op” where communities / towns / neighborhoods can pool power gen, storage, and use. Forming a small grid of their own that sips from the larger grid if needed.

Vampire devices are largely irrelevant, but always worth knowing which of your devices draws power. My 3d printer just sitting, but on, draws 10w. Off, it draws <1w or lower. My unplugged phone charger? Less than 0.1w. Is this larger than 0? Yep, is it enough to matter, no, not really. Being extremely pessimistic, we can say that all powered off devices plugged in vamp about 1w of power. At worst, my whole house would waste about 30wH. Over a day, that’s 720wH. A week is 5kwH, 20kwH/month, 241kwH a year. An average home for my homes size & area uses 12,632 kwh/year.

Now, we put this a slightly more realistic scenario where most unused devices vamp between 0.4-0.1 (avg 0.2w), and 241kwH/yr -> 48kwH/year, or about 0.3% of my average household consumption.

All that said, know what your devices pull. unplug or turn off the that are “big spenders” when idle. I turn off my printer and unplug TVs that rarely get used. Power strips help for things like stereo or home theater systems.

DuncanIdaho ,

Point I was making is that vampire devices have a cumulative effect over a population. Yes, you personally are not much energy, but add it up over the population and its still unneeded carbon into the atmosphere. Yeah it wont save us money, but its something along the way to a bigger effort (eg mixing with walking or cycling instead of driving).

Haywire ,

I think this is akin to paper straws fixing the plastics problem.

lostferret ,

Fair point. There are bigger fish to fry but this is a change people can easily make 👍

creditCrazy ,
@creditCrazy@lemmy.world avatar

I’d imagine animal rights activists would be pretty against the use of gorillas to make different devices solar capabilities

DuncanIdaho ,

LOL!

Retrograde ,
@Retrograde@lemmy.world avatar

Instructions unclear, installed gorillas on roof

creditCrazy ,
@creditCrazy@lemmy.world avatar

No you’re doing it correctly maybe you got the wiring to photosynthesis wrong

gens ,

It’s better for them to ne on the grid instead of each having their own panel and battery. It’s more efficient material-vise, and they would still need to be connected to the grid.

I’d put panels on all roofs, though.

DuncanIdaho ,

I’d still have them on roofing. Might just be easy to deal with a council and expand the system across a town or city. On homes people tend to have to buy the panels themselves (£8-20k for a system), then they individually have to negotiate with their energy supplier - who can deny them the option of connecting to grid.

foggianism ,

It’s a common misconception that the planet as a life bearing vessel is in danger - it is not. It’s just that human civilization is probably fucked (and thousands of other species).

Mchugho ,

Some scientists warn 70% of species could go extinct within the new few centuries which would massively dent the ecosystem, also the rates of extinction are massively high. All bets are off at that point. Chaos theory will reign supreme.

I agree that life will probably continue but I also wouldn’t be massively surprised if we fucked it so bad that most major ecological systems are basically gone. Maybe some ultra persistent bacteria and algae will remain and start again.

reagansrottencorpse ,

MRSA will rule the day !

lostferret ,

They will. Mass extinctions worse than what we would cause have happened in the past.

“Life, uh, finds a way”

We’re just not part of it

whitepawn ,

This is a leadership problem. The problem really does need to be solved at the top.

The reality is most working class cannot just stop, unless handed a practical alternative because stopping would mean not going to work, not earning income, and being rendered homeless. Likely living in their car first which would put oil consumption right back in play.

Whatever alternative you’re thinking of that the working class might be able to achieve as an individual probably has a buy-in cost. Given the even greater number of folks living paycheck to paycheck in the last two years, that buy-in isn’t a plausible ask.

Sucks. But here we are. Find a cost free (to the working class individual) solution that doesn’t interrupt the 5-6 day/wk work schedule or require any extra costs or moving and you’ll solve it. Until then, working class folks are going to do what they must to keep the lights on and the water running, and that’s usually going to be commuting to work in a gas consuming vehicle. As such, the solution needs to come from the top, not the bottom.

Earnest question. Is there enough lithium on the planet to turn around every vehicle in the United States to electric? Assume infrastructure for charging. Even then, do we even have the lithium, cobalt, manganese, nickel, and graphite or whatever else electric vehicle batteries need for it?

HardlightCereal ,

What I’m thinking the working class can do is protest, civil disruption, direct action, unionisation, labour strikes, and worker action.

Labour is entitled to all it creates.

whitepawn ,

Time is often the ultimate commodity. It’s why you see some of the poorest folks grabbing fast food. No time for groceries or cooking in earnest.

How do you fit time for all of what you just said into that work/life schedule?

blind3rdeye ,

It’s too late to avoid problems; but it’s certainly not too late to take action. This is not a binary yes / no or climate change / no climate change situation. It’s a continuum. We can’t avoid it completely, but the longer we delay action the worse it gets. There is still a lot of room for it to get worse. So reducing emissions is more important now than it has even been, even if some problems are unavoidable.

dangblingus ,

Well, unfortunately we are looking at the likely scenario of cascading ecosystem failures, quickly leading to most humans on earth starving to death.

Smoogs ,

So reducing emissions is more important now than it has even been

Middle managers : “Come back to working in the office”

Us: ”we work on computers and can easily work from home and have done so for years now being very productive without adding to the emissions of the road use”

Middle managers: “Fuck the earth. I don’t feel like my job is valid unless you’re here so I can micromanage you”

katkit ,

I like to frame it as, even if you can’t avoid crashing into a wall, it still makes a huge difference whether you do it with a 120km/h, 70km/h or 20km/h.

Samsy ,

Mildly interesting: this scene in the meme is actually about accidentally putting spicy pepperoni in the kids eyes.

PunnyName ,

Peppers.

youtu.be/z-KzGKoLHXk?si=Y-rZV4IizSmcpNt0

narp ,

In Germany those are often called peperoni or peperoncino

JohnDClay ,

Stages of climate change denial:

1 it doesn’t exist

2 we aren’t causing it

3 it isn’t that bad

4 we can’t solve it

5 it’s too late now (so might as well go on consuming oil)

We can’t just throw our hands up and give up because we don’t know how bad it will be yet. So we should still try everything we can to stop ghg emissions and sequester those already in the air.

theguardian.com/…/climate-change-contrarians-5-st…

MedicPigBabySaver ,

Didn’t know my dentist set up stages of denial. 😉

JohnDClay ,

Lol thanks

Makeshift ,

That’s basically the mindset I’m in.

We’re screwed and won’t shape up in time. But I’m still going to self reflect and improve myself.

There is very little chance. But there is zero chance if everyone lets zero chance stop them from caring about their own actions.

Sheeple ,
@Sheeple@lemmy.world avatar

Also sure there is a climate catastrophe going on that causes irreparable damage

BUT

That doesn’t mean we should be causing an EVEN WORSE climate catastrophe

AllonzeeLV , (edited )

People more powerful than you can dream with their arms up world government “leaders” asses telling them what to do and say are going to enforce maximum profit at the planet’s expense until the apocalyptic day they retreat to the luxury climate bunkers they’ve been building around the world, look it up, they are. It’s not a conspiracy.

Then they’ll keep barking orders to keep burning the world for profit remotely from comfort and safety until the last capitalist true believer sycophant on the other end finally tells them to fuck off and die and hangs up, damage done.

It isn’t too late because we couldn’t, as a species mitigate some of the worst effects with concerted, global effort. It’s too late because the egotistical, sociopathic world oligarchs that own you and I in every practical way have zero interest in the survival of our species after they’ve left the stage of life, and they’ll play this planet like a harp from hell for every fucking nickel until they literally, physically can’t. It was always a con, our oligarchs are just the snake oil salesmen of yore, they conned their way into conquest, and the damage or “externalities” they cause has never and will never make them lose a second of sleep.

And we the peasants will go along, afraid stopping them will inturrupt the flow of our pathetic subsistence opiates like social media, fast food, literal opiates, etc.

JohnDClay ,

Then eat the rich? There’s always something that can be done.

AllonzeeLV ,

I’ll be honest friend, I am so tired of that expression. People say it, and nothing happens ever.

There are people doing this. We know who they are, where are they are, and they’re literally outnumbered millions to one.

Yet we will do nothing, because of 2 things:

  1. from Kindergarten through schools of economics through all major media they own, they’ve trained any receptive peasants that their way is the only correct way. Capitalism is human nature. Greed doesn’t exist, only “rational self-interest.” if you give the owners everything they’ll piss it back on you. On and fucking on. And unfortunately most peasants are effectively propagandized into this mindset against their own interests. And when that doesn’t work…
  2. fear of losing access to our subsistence opiates. We can’t revolt and hang the profiteers destroying the planet, social media will go down, fast food restaurants will close, my favorite drama series might not come back!

When there’s a meaningful group of people assembling to eat the rich, I’ll be there with bells on, but only if it’s there to do more than protest in a designated protest zone with a city permit out of the owner’s line of sight.

Until then, “eat the rich” is just a sad reminder to me of how well defeated and compliant we are in the face of for profit Armageddon. Eat the rich? Sir, they’re literally consuming this planet. The rich are eating us, right this very second.

mjhelto ,

Hear hear. I, too, am tired of that phrase, but the recent rounds of unionization and indictments of the powerful few give me hope that the gullible boomer generation, who believed all of their shit because of their selfishness, are either dying or are being replaced. I think it’s only going to get larger and more organized the more we’re pushed to the extremes.

It might be too late to stop the train from derailing, but their normal placations and lies aren’t working on the newer gens. We know America is not the bastion of freedom and liberty our forebearers fawned over and ate up from the capitalists. We have eyes and critical thinking and they’ve taken everything from us.

The more people that realize how pointless money is, how debt is as fake as George Santos’ gold medals, and the rich only hold that title because we believe it, the more they will reap the consequences of their actions.

You are my new favorite person on Lemmy!

whitepawn ,

While everything you say is true, it’s not all scornful.

Some folks work 8-16hrs a day and if they don’t, their child will cry in hunger, the lights get shut off, and immediate needs get difficult.

It’s not all about TV and fast food, it’s about the bottom layer or two of Maslow’s Heirarchy.

It’s why we had riots post George Floyd. People had time (off work) alongside an unemployment check (no scorn as I type that, just laying out some of the contributing variables that made it so.). Hell, lack of social interaction may have brought folks out to where other people were as well.

The root reason can be noble as fuck, but without the right set of circumstances that allows for some assurance of not losing job, roof, health care and such, it ain’t happening, at least not to any effective scale.

AllonzeeLV , (edited )

“While everything you say is true, it’s not all scornful.Some folks work 8-16hrs a day and if they don’t, their child will cry in hunger, the lights get shut off, and immediate needs get difficult.”

I consider those children hostages to our oligarchs and our corrupt, rigged global economy that causes or exacerbates most social ills.

If you give the hostage takers what they want, staying the course and making them their money, they’ll simply take more hostages as their former hostages become compliant capital batteries. That’s surviving, not living. At some point, if you don’t want most humans to live in a state of perpetual servitude, we must acknowledge that to end this cycle, innocents will die, and that blood is on the hostage taker’s hands, not the hands of those that wanted their children to have a chance to be more than capital batteries for the owners, if the climate disaster they also caused for profit hasn’t killed us yet.

But as I have said repeatedly, we will keep giving the hostage takers what they want, and pathetically thank them for the privilege. There can be no hope as long as the most provably greedy human beings are also the humans that lead entire world governments and the species around by the nose. There is NO EVENTUALITY where we convince these people to share or slow down their profit. You’d sooner turn lead into gold with a laser pointer than get Jeff Bezos/Elon Musk/Warren Buffett to do something truly selfless.

And so humanity walks into the sea together.

explodicle ,

It sounds like we need a way to address externalities that they can’t simply shut down. Like bittorrent but for insurance.

Or we just give up and die because the solution involves money.

AllonzeeLV ,

“Or we just give up and die because the solution involves money.”

That is a falsehood. One you’re conditioned to propagate. The solution would involve rejecting profit and the infinite growth capitalism requires in favor of homeostatsis with this world. Growing our own food and resources locally, re-establishing bartering instead of capital currency to revaluate things that matter, food/medicine/construction supplies, instead of things that don’t, useless plastic/shiny metal junk, as we do now. abandoning consumerism for things we don’t need to survive and prosper.

We won’t do that, but that would be the available solution. We will instead stay the course, and buy the latest oligarch snake oil like planetary scale carbon filter vaporware they’re trying to sell governments, just like “clean coal” and “natural” ethanol as solutions before it.

The capitalists dooming us all will continue to sell us the newest “solution” to the problems they cause, all the way into oblivion.

explodicle ,

Is this why you put externalities in quotes? What you’re calling an available solution is a massive prisoner’s dilemma - whoever goes first is worse off.

AllonzeeLV , (edited )

“whoever goes first is worse off.”

I’m not saying its something our species would ever be willing to do, put the needs of the species over how do I get a better deal than other humans/what’s in it for ME?

I’m saying its what we should be doing. Selfishness, at the end of the day, is the very reason we’re doomed by our own hands though.

There is no long term eventuality where humanity survives AND continues to sanction greed, our most destructive, darkest impulse. At least someone who hurts others out of hatred cared about who they hurt and how they hurt them in some way. Insatiable greed treats its victims as nameless speed bumps to glorious acquisition.

Someone taking more than they need in front of other humans should be treated with the same revulsion and consequences as pedophilia imho. Again, that won’t happen. We are doomed, after all.

explodicle ,

That’s what I was referring to as “give up and die”.

If it can’t work with the humans that exist, then it’s not an actual solution, or even valid economics for that matter. There’s been a lot of research into externalities and how to address them.

AllonzeeLV ,

news.harvard.edu/…/oil-companies-discourage-clima…

Yes, they’re addressing the problem quite effectively.

Can I interest you in a carbon filter in these trying times?

explodicle ,

Or you could perhaps start on Wikipedia.

AllonzeeLV ,

If it fulfills you to label me as ignorant, I have no problem with that.

explodicle ,

I would be more fulfilled if you didn’t spread defeatism and refuse to educate yourself.

PunnyName ,

Guillotines

buzz86us ,

I hear Detroit is nice

Daft_ish , (edited )

subsistence opiates like social media, fast food, literal opiates, etc.

I would argue they’ve had complete control long before all of that. No, humanity is inherently flawed when it comes to considering the collective good.

If you are like me and believe on a macro scale all of humanity is only an extension of a universal cosmic nature than hamanity isnt really flawed. No more flawed than when, say, a leaf falls from a tree only to become dirt again.

If it’s any consolation I believe humanity can defy its own nature. I just haven’t seen a lot of that, lately.

gandalf_der_12te ,

That’s nicely said.

I think however, the problem is more that everybody wants to solve climate change, as long as it doesm’t cost them anything.

And since big companies and banks are the only ones with enough money to make a significant difference, climate change will only be solved by having cost-competitive clean sources of energy. Which we have.

Diabolo96 ,

We deserve it !

balderdash9 ,

https://lemmy.zip/pictrs/image/8d8122a3-61c4-454f-b32d-fc641c925c18.webp

VikingHippie ,

I mean, you’re a man wearing a polar bear head so…yes?

DragonTypeWyvern ,

I don’t think you’d disrespect Mr Polar Bear Head to his face.

VikingHippie ,

Of course not! I couldn’t stand the seal breath I’d have to endure in order to say stuff to his face!

LunaticSoda ,
@LunaticSoda@lemmy.today avatar

what a crybaby, just get over it

Slartibartfass ,

Martina Hill. Beschde

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