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lemmy.world has bent the knee to corporations. Consolidated comments into body.

I don’t think this is EEE, I think this is a chance for meta to dominate the narrative by drowning us out with algorithmically curated censorship, distractions, hatred, outrage etc. I would join threads if I want threads, I would be on Reddit if I want corporate influence.

The mastodon post for the same server admins admitting to allow Meta thanks @BrikoX and @Melco

This is the post regarding an admin of fosstodon being offered a secret meeting under a non disclosure agreement

Thanks lunar for articulating my central point better than I could.

Most of my primary content was within the comment section scattered so I’ll try to put it up here and edit more as i go. I was worried I’d butcher things so I avoided updating my post. Ignore the mess

–

EEE - I don’t want to talk specifically about this. Many others are, and you can talk with them about it.

–

Privacy - My views on privacy is that lemmy is already fully public and facebook merging into it probably wont reduce your lemmy privacy in any meaningful way. Ignoring lemmy, your privacy is already fully breached in ways I’m not going to explain here.

–

People keep making blind claims that facebook/meta can’t use their algorithms to interact with us, so i will explain. For the record I know most of this effects mastodon directly, and not so much lemmy.

Threads will be able to control what gets minimised and maximised based on whatever secret algorithms they use. These end results are known to people that want to know, it’s how our parents and grandparents, became increasingly detached from reality. If facebook/meta wants to censor their users, they will, if they want to promote hate against LGBTQs then they will. Those users will then interact with our users, slowly shifting our conversations and the overall culture of lemmy into the same cesspool that is facebook.

Secondly, the content of threads will be selected by a relatively massive userbase which will drown out our content if we stay federated. Of course that content will be optimised by their algorithm, thus influencing fediverse content.

–

Now onto the principle matter. FACEBOOK IS EVIL, like genocidal evil, a propaganda arm of the empire evil. They have a heavily proven track record. “Wait and see”? There is no need to ignore facebook/metas criminal record.

The admins here should have clearly stated their intent but have been deafeningly silent. People are asking for clarification or in my case, acting because of a clear lack of action.

Other posts are talking about this and I will assume you have been reading them.

– pjhenry is a troll that ignores what people actually say, he focuses on his intentional misunderstandings and straw-men, just stop feeding the troll guys, he only wants to fight over nothing. He only acts in bad faith.

burrp ,
@burrp@burrp.xyz avatar

Where is the indication that lemmy.world have “bent the knee”?

Emanresu OP , (edited )

The fact that you ask that is exactly what i mean.

edit: The deafening silence is what i was referring to here, my post has an update about what i mean further. I should have fully explained at the time but was going into “answer everyone” overload and cheaped out.

Mewtwo ,
@Mewtwo@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I just read the post you linked in the op. I was against federating then changed my mind after reading the post. Their reasoning makes sense, there is no benefit from detaching now but it’s good to be cautiously optimistic with no issue with federating if there’s potential harm.

They are pushing for a system to keep threads in check, which is what is needed

Emanresu OP ,

it’s good to be cautiously optimistic

I vaguely remember a quote about nazis at a table.

edit: i’m implying that this instance is complicit, nothing about you personally.

Also, i totally agree with upgrading lemmy itself.

pjhenry1216 ,

Cautiously optimistic means making sure you're actually seeing if folks are Nazis before calling them Nazis. They're saying let's sit at the table and leave the table if we see Nazis.

You again have provided zero arguments as to why a wait and see approach causes any problem. If the defederate a week after Threads launches ActivityPub, what horrors would have occurred that can't be undone? And if it's as bad as you suggest, it'd likely be only hours after launch.

jerdle_lemmy ,

So the argument for them bending the knee is that someone on a different instance disagrees with you?

pjhenry1216 ,

You even admitting to not reading the post when you said this. The link you added leads to a post that you then admitted to not reading til later. They haven't bent a knee. You're just overreacting. You've provided no evidence other than just "look at their history" or vague claims similar to that. Other times you just insult the person providing an actual argument. You're a bad faith actor. You're toxic. Are you sure you don't belong on Threads?

trachemys ,

mastodon.world announced they won’t block threads yet and lemmy.world has the same owner.

Aldursil ,

What are you talking about?

Emanresu OP ,

How long does it take to make an announcement for the most important and simple decision one can make? The thing is, they announced quietly that they are allowing federation with threads. Interacting with threads goes against the spirit of us leaving the corporate cesspool of reddit and doesn’t even need a discussion.

cbarrick ,

and doesn’t even need a discussion.

The assumption that anti-corporate is the unanimous opinion of everyone here is false. I have and use apps from Meta. This is a topic that very much needs discussion.

I for one would appreciate federation with Meta. We can always defederate if Meta actually does something objectionable. But I see no reason to defederate before we actually know what federation with Meta looks like.

Emanresu OP ,

You do realise the average person here now is from exiting reddit because they did bog standard corporate things? If they aren’t aware they dislike the corporate part of reddit and like the lemmy part then… well…

Aldursil ,

The “average” person does not even know what an API is or cares. I doubt they even know what’s going on. You sure do like to make grand sweeping statements that have no basis in fact.

Emanresu OP ,

Never said a thing about APIs… you should make such grand sweeping statements.

As for the average person here, plenty of statistics say that corporate reddit shenanigans and the influx of users happened at the same time, this is simple fact. They got booted off, or chose to come here because of the corporate side of reddit. This is about as simple as simple can be Aldursil. Are you a bot? or just… ya know

Aldursil ,

Wow, now insulting. The last thing people do when they run out of ideas. Welcome to my block list.

jerdle_lemmy ,

I’d like to disagree with OP, but a lot of us did join after Reddit fucked up.

FaceDeer ,
@FaceDeer@kbin.social avatar

Sure, but Reddit managed to be ok for 18 years before this fuckup. If we get 18 years of useful content out of Meta and then it fucks up like Reddit did I'd count that as a massive win.

pjhenry1216 ,

"you shouldn't make grand sweeping statements"

Ok. You're just a troll now aren't you. Those are the only statements you've been making.

MonsieurHedge ,
@MonsieurHedge@kbin.social avatar

OP doesn't know what an API is. They've shown they have effectively no idea what they're talking about.

MsPenguinette ,

OP is reminding me of teenagers on trans twitter catastrophizing tiny events into an end of the world call for the stocks and gallows.

I haven’t responded to them directly cause of that. Have really wanted to but had to stop myself cause I know it’ll be fruitless

^Note: not hating on trans twitter. I’m trans. It’s just a hurt people lashing out at small things they feel they can exert some amount of control over in a world that is on fire^

jerdle_lemmy ,

Ok, imagine if Reddit had been part of the fediverse in the way Threads is planning to be. Then, when spez needed to fuck himself, we could have migrated more easily to another instance, without losing access to Reddit.

I’m not sure about you, but that sounds like an upside to me.

NoneOfUrBusiness ,

We can always defederate if Meta actually does something objectionable. But I see no reason to defederate before we actually know what federation with Meta looks like.

I don't hate corporations out of principle like the other guy, but there's no way this is gonna turn out well for the Fediverse. That's just not how Meta does things.

Talaraine ,
@Talaraine@kbin.social avatar

Agree, honestly, if people haven't figured out that mega-corporations can and will find a way to ruin a free space, you haven't been on Earth very long.

pjhenry1216 , (edited )

This stance doesn't affect the argument though. They're joining that space regardless of whether they defederate now or later.

glockenspiel , (edited )

I agree in spirit, but Meta is a known bad actor and wrecking ball that ran actual psyops against its own users and their networks just to see if they could make people depressed. They also engage in extensive, worldwide election interference to upend democracies. They don’t get the benefit of the doubt anymore.

This article lays out all the problems with the wait and see approach. We’ve been here before, unfortunately, and it only has a happy ending for the huge corporations looking to end us.

Edit: for those looking to get away from Mastodon’s main instances, give Fosstodon a look. Meta approached its admin with NDAs just like they did with Ruud, but refused it and published the email for openness. Here it is, by the way.

pjhenry1216 ,

Federating would do more than defederating. The whole argument is that if they stop federating, they'll destroy the fediverse. People will leave activitypub-native instances to go to threads instead because they can't see Threads.

It's actually more important to show people a better way. Granted, if it's toxic, and we just defederate anyway, then it's already not a threat that most of the fediverse would change sides.

The EEE approach is not about whether any particular instance federates or not. Threads would need to create enough value to even make people want to care about them breaking protocol. And more to the point, we are a different culture than back then.

The only threat would be if you're worried Threads would provide substantially better content than here. It'd need to be good enough that a threat of them defederating others is more dangerous. If people made that argument, maybe I could see their point. But so far, I think the bigger threat is the content itself being toxic and garbage. I say let Threads mature a bit and let's see where it stands if and when they do federate (and if we even have to worry about seeing it on Lemmy or Kbin).

And let's be honest, Google didn't kill XMPP just out of EEE. They did so by simply making such a monolithic platform that "everyone" had an account already so why create a separate account for messaging by itself. Pretending Google Talk existed in a vacuum is deceptive at best and objectively wrong at worst. I have a Google account and it's causing me such agonizing pain that it's taking me so long to extract myself out of it. It'll likely take me months or even years to fully remove myself and that's not even counting that I then need to migrate out of Microsoft too.

pjhenry1216 ,

Stop being entitled and speaking for other people. The fact a discussion is occurring means it needs a discussion. You aren't some big brained person who just knows better than anyone else. It's clear folks disagree with you. This means your objective stance of truth is objectively wrong. It's simply subjective opinion. So is mine. But stop providing no actual formal logic behind your claims. If you think your doing that, then I suggest actually taking a formal logic course when you reach college.

jerdle_lemmy ,

mastodon.world, owned by the same people as lemmy.world, is not immediately defederating with threads.

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