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Matrix let-down

I’ve been trying to use Matrix to replace sites like Discord or Slack. But it seems that if a user creates an invitation-only room in a server, then invited users who are registered on other servers get errors when trying to join. Not very useful error messages either: “Failed to join room”. (In my case, I tried creating accounts and rooms at nitro.chat and then at converser.eu, but friends registered at matrix.org don’t manage to join).

Quite a let-down. Anyone who’s facing the same problem and has maybe managed to solve it?

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

Anyone who says Matrix is a suitable replacement for Discord is delusional.

But you can self-host Revolt chat, which is very similar.

Blaze ,

Revolt with federation (they are hinting XMPP) would be very nice

developers.revolt.chat/faq.html

meldrik ,

One can only hope, but it is still very promising without.

Blaze ,

Do you use it?

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

I tried it but the teeny tiny file sizes are a dealbreaker.

Eldritch ,

Have you tried wormhole?

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

Never heard of it.

Eldritch ,

Check it out. A lot of the systems like Discord Etc limit file sizes so vigorously. Because they operate like men in the middle. Can you send them the file first. Then whoever you’re sending it to can download it from them. It’s adding extra steps to the whole thing. With something like Wormhole you can even link a file from your phone. As long as you are on Wi-Fi and not going to be chewing through data minutes LOL. All the app does is connect the end points. Once they’re connected then you send the file directly to whomever you want. And the only limits on file sizes are realistically at the endpoints.

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

I mean there are dozens of sites like this. I can host my own media on my server and share it with a link. Except the “extra steps” you’re referring to are all done automatically on the backend (the submitter just clicks “upload” and selects the file and the recipients just click the play button) and the “extra steps” required here and manual and annoying. In the case of Discord or similar.

Eldritch ,

The site isn’t hosting the file. Sure you can host your own FTP etc. But there is a lot of security risks and vulnerabilities that arise because of that. You can even host your own Magic wormhole. It’s under MIT license. Just have to open the ports Etc. It should however theoretically have a lot less attack surface than HTTP FTP and similar protocols. Nothing is invulnerable of course.

helenslunch , (edited )
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

The site isn’t hosting the file.

According to the site, it is:

In addition, we store your encrypted files on our servers for 24 hours so the share link will keep working for your recipient even after you close the Wormhole site.

Not that it matters, because none of that is the problem. Hosting my own media on my own server is much more convenient than p2p transfers and equally secure. The problem is the “extra steps” require to transfer files this way.

Eldritch , (edited )

It’s simply acting as a connector. And directing traffic around Nat Etc for lay people or those who don’t want to bother with setting up and securing server software or such things. Unless of course I’m completing the two and they aren’t related. It’s possible I suppose. But I’ve used the app a couple of times. And I don’t ever remember having to sit and wait for a file upload. It was instant. Like the file being hashed and info being generated. Then slapping you with a QR code or a string to give to the person you’re sending it to Initiate the transfer

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

As of right now, Revolt does not feature any federation and it is not in our feature roadmap.

Blaze ,

That’s why I said “would”

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

You also said “they are hinting at XMPP” when they’re not even hinting at adding federation.

Blaze ,

Below the sentence you quoted

However, this does not necessarily mean federation is off the table, possible avenues are:


<span style="color:#323232;">Implement our own federation protocol
</span><span style="color:#323232;">Implement a promising up and coming federation protocol, polyproto
</span><span style="color:#323232;">Implement the Matrix protocol (unlikely, obtuse and unstable)
</span>
  • Implement the XMPP protocol (battle-tested and stable)
helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

Yes, I read the whole thing, thanks. However it’s listed right next to several other (basically every) option and if it’s not even on their roadmap, it’s guaranteed not to happen for many years, if ever.

iopq ,

Works on my machine

Glasgow ,

Matrix 2.0 is pretty close.

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

2.0 doesn’t even support spaces…

andrew_s ,
@andrew_s@piefed.social avatar

In my experience it looks like a case of matrix clients not doing a good job of communicating that things happening in the background haven't finished yet, and throwing generic error messages (a bit like lemmy-ui does sometimes).

I've been able to join invite-only rooms on other instances - it said 'failed' at first, but when I went back later it turned out that I had actually joined.

subignition ,
@subignition@piefed.social avatar

What are some of the popular Matrix clients that you've seen have this problem? And are they open source?

I've been curious about Matrix for a while as a potential Discord replacement, but haven't actually tried it. Might be interesting to check it out and see whether I can contribute to one of the clients somehow.

originalucifer ,
@originalucifer@moist.catsweat.com avatar

the thing that drives me absolutely into matrix-hate-rage is the scrolling. if youre in a matrix space with lots of little different windows attempting to scroll through almost any context is a crapshoot at best.

i like the idea of matrix, but its implementation is hot garbage.

verstra ,

It works great for a closed group of people, all on one instance. Another data point that federation is hard.

AsudoxDev ,
@AsudoxDev@programming.dev avatar

Matrix is not quite like Discord, but we have Revolt. Try that. Which is a discord clone.

TheRealCharlesEames ,

A bullet proof Matrix UX would be too OP

LodeMike , (edited )

That error happens because the room federation sync takes longer than the join client-server request timeout. Just try again.

mesamunefire ,

Ive had a better time with good old irc. But I hope matrix takes over…

poVoq , (edited )
@poVoq@slrpnk.net avatar

IRC can actually be quite good. The main problem is the super outdated popular networks like libera.chat, but if your run your own IRC server with modern clients it works nicely (or you can use a good bouncer like Soju). Supplement it with a Mumble or Jitsi-meet server and you got at least a functional equivalent to Discord, even though of course not nearly as polished or easy to use as Discord.

mesamunefire ,

I run it off yunohost which comes with it by default. Im not saying its the best to have servers come with it by default, but I sure use it quite a bit!

secret300 ,

I want to use matrix so bad but matrix clients suck and there’s no voice channels like discord

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