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AbouBenAdhem , in Is there an easy way to generate a list of CMYK color values that will appear identical to the human eye under 589nm light?

Different printers have CMYK primaries with different spectra, so there’s not going to be a generic solution. But in principle, CMY can only create a linear combination of three discrete frequency bands, not a continuous spectrum.

The same will be true of the appearance under monochromatic light: you can only make colors that blend the monochromatic appearance of the primaries. So if none of the three primaries has the desired effect, you can’t create the effect by mixing them.

pbbananaman , in Is there an easy way to generate a list of CMYK color values that will appear identical to the human eye under 589nm light?

Low pressure sodium lamps have a pretty sharp spectrum: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium-vapor_lamp

Looking at the color spectrum, have you just tried and colors in the green to blue to purple range? I don’t think you need a Python library for this, I think you need to experiment. There’s a lot of dependence on the reflectivity of the material you’re looking at in addition to the color you see under sunlight or even indoor light with broad spectrum.

Try blue and green and see if both look the same under the lamp.

ch00f OP ,

I was hoping I could avoid experimenting. CMYK light responses should be well controlled/documented, no?

pbbananaman ,

Thinking about this more , you probably want this to develop a curve in your color space that represents something with constant CMYK values for your chosen light source.

…readthedocs.io/…/conversions.html

E.g. your sodium light is 100% yellow, 10ish % magenta. Any color that varies cyan from 0%-100% and black from 0%-100% should presumably not reflect any additional color information (since the source light doesn’t have any cyan and black is just giving brightness)

I also think this means that as long as you hold Y and M constant, you can vary cyan and black for your comparison colors that will look the same. If you try to vary cyan and yellow or magenta at the same time then your effect probably won’t work.

This is tricky because you have multiple curves in the color space that are valid when just considering a single wavelength. The reality is, your lamp emits a spectrum of light (sharp, but still has a width). There’s also the variability in perception. But I’m not sure what the “bandwidth” of our eyes is and what color resolution humans are capable of detecting.

match , in Is there an easy way to generate a list of CMYK color values that will appear identical to the human eye under 589nm light?
@match@pawb.social avatar

Would it count as easy to make the colors in a photo editing tool (picking things of the same value and saturation but different hues) and then converting to the CMYK designation?

ubermeisters , in Is there an easy way to generate a list of CMYK color values that will appear identical to the human eye under 589nm light?
@ubermeisters@lemmy.world avatar

This question covers a wide gamut

;)

Honestly, go ask Bing Chat/GPT4. It’s pretty good at generating leads on where to look, if not direct code for you.

elvith ,

This is “ask science”, not “ask hallucinating charlatans”

ubermeisters ,
@ubermeisters@lemmy.world avatar

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  • inspxtr , in Is there an easy way to generate a list of CMYK color values that will appear identical to the human eye under 589nm light?

    Is there an equation for this? Like y = f(x) where y is your choice of gray and x is your color. Maybe you can empirically find “f” by fitting randomly created “x” with the resulting “y”.

    If “f” can be approximated and maybe there’s something special about it so that you can find the inverse. Otherwise, you could always just generate a bunch of “x*” again, feed through “f”, and see whether the output “y*” matches your chosen gray.

    mvirts , in Is there an easy way to generate a list of CMYK color values that will appear identical to the human eye under 589nm light?

    Hmmmmmmmmm… From a high level perspective you need to know the reflectivity of your combined pigments at that wavelength. If it’s the same, they will look the same.

    I don’t know of anything easy you can use, but would suggest trying to find reflectance curves for each pigment you have available and making combinations that subtract to the same value at 589nm, or since 589 should be basically yellow, make up some colors where Y is constant and you change the ratio of C to R and try them out?

    TauZero ,

    That’s true! Using RGB alone will not be enough to calculate this! Two materials that might appear equally yellow under white sunlight may appear different shades of yellow under sodium light. Technology Connections did a great video about the difference: piped.video/watch?v=uYbdx4I7STg

    edit: he starts talking about sodium light in particular at 11:14

    Gebruikersnaam , in Is there an easy way to generate a list of CMYK color values that will appear identical to the human eye under 589nm light?
    @Gebruikersnaam@lemmy.ml avatar

    So I’m really not sure how this works anymore but if you figure out which frequencies alias you can use academo.org/…/wavelength-to-colour-relationship/ to do a conversion.

    TigrisMorte , in Humans are notoriously bad at absorbing iron from plant sources, while herbivores seem to do fine. What's up with that?

    Humans are omnivores for a reason.

    Floey , in Humans are notoriously bad at absorbing iron from plant sources, while herbivores seem to do fine. What's up with that?

    I would argue it is a feature and not a bug. Your body controls the uptake of iron with hormones. Those hormones work less effectively on the uptake of heme, but I would say that is the bug. Hemochromatosis (abundance of iron) can present the same symptoms as iron deficiency. Both issues are usually caused by genetic issues rather than dietary ones though.

    xkforce , (edited ) in Humans are notoriously bad at absorbing iron from plant sources, while herbivores seem to do fine. What's up with that?

    This is going to cover the factors that affect the ability of humans to absorb Iron which isnt quite addressing your question directly but I would rather not speculate about things that I have not researched as thoroughly. Iron bioavailability depends on several factors including what you eat along with the Iron. Citric acid and protein significantly increase the bioavailability of Iron. Plant foods rich in phytate (what plants use to store Phosphorus) bind to and render unavailable metals like Iron, Zinc, Calcium etc but these levels vary significantly between plant food sources. Other metals like Zinc can interfere with Iron bioavailability and vice versa. And normally the body’s ability to absorb Iron is regulated such that Iron is absorbed more efficiently if you are deficient and less efficiently if you have an excess. There are a few disorders that cause this Iron regulation to malfunction either resulting in deficiencies or the complete opposite of this, excessive Iron that starts depositing in organs but with a physiologically “normal” person that regulatory system acts to normalize the amount of Iron absorbed to an extent.

    Tar_alcaran , in Humans are notoriously bad at absorbing iron from plant sources, while herbivores seem to do fine. What's up with that?

    It’s a bit of both. Diet, volume and biology.

    Humans mostly absorb iron through the duodenum, which is a very short bit of intestine near the stomach.

    Herbivores, on the other hand, have either massively complex systems of stomachs, chew their cud to make nutrients more absorbable, or letting food ferment before digesting. The latter also works for humans, if you like fermented veggies.

    Of course, diet also matters. Humans don’t eat all that high iron foods, but grass is a cow’s main food source and it’s high in iron.

    Slowy , in Humans are notoriously bad at absorbing iron from plant sources, while herbivores seem to do fine. What's up with that?
    @Slowy@lemmy.world avatar

    Many herbivores have a part of the digestive tract devoted to fermentation (or other microbe based processes) to break down cellulose. This involves a community of microorganisms that live in that part of the gut, and it is those microorganisms that break down the plant matter, producing nutrition for the animal via the products of their digestion, or by the animal breaking down the microorganisms themselves. Ruminants in particular like cows with their specialized multi-compartment stomach devote a lot of space to culturing this microbe colony, but rabbits and horses are hind gut fermenters so they have cecum for that. Rabbits also are coprophagic (eat poop), they digest some of their plant matter once, then eat the poop pellet and send it through again so it can be broken down even more.

    But basically, with the microbes doing the work of digestion, it is more about what they can extract, and the herbivores just host them. We have a different community of microorganisms than them, and our digestive tract wouldn’t be able to support large numbers of those species.

    jaybone ,

    Does this mean herbivores are drunk all the time?

    Kidding of course, but is there actually some level of alcohol produced as part of this fermentation?

    wahming ,

    Yes

    Slowy ,
    @Slowy@lemmy.world avatar

    Sadly no, they don’t produce much ethanol lol

    spittingimage ,
    @spittingimage@lemmy.world avatar
    CanadaPlus ,

    That’s the answer for cellulose, a tough polymer, but I’d be cautious generalising to iron.

    Slowy ,
    @Slowy@lemmy.world avatar

    Fair criticism, and in regards to minerals especially, I totally failed to mention the need for herbivores to have access to literal rocks and dirt rich in different minerals that aren’t readily available in plant. In captivity, this takes the form of mineral blocks of course.

    CanadaPlus ,

    Particularly salt, which we usually mix into our food one way or another.

    Skotimusj , in What are the long-term effects of childhood dehydration?

    Well, the context matters greatly here. If dehydration is severe enough to lower blood pressure (a.k.a. hypovolemic shock) it can cause long term brain, liver, kidney, and heart damage. That is assuming you survived. It could also cause local ischemia ( loss of blood flow) requiring limb amputation.

    If it is not bad enough to cause shock, the most probable long term sequelae would be kidney damage. Dehydration can precipitate ATN (acute tubular necrosis). In a kid this may appear to be transient. It would kill a certain percentage of your available nephrons. As a kid, you only need ~20% of your nephrons to assume full kidney function. This would mean that you would appear to recover but would likely go into kidney failure at an early age.

    There are also psychological effects depending on severity and duration.

    angrystego , in What are the long-term effects of childhood dehydration?

    I guess in very severe cases the kidneys and the urinary tract in general could be affected.

    Swim ,

    the one i know of is kidney stones

    FlowVoid , (edited ) in Do all hearts pump 120 BPM with the same energy?

    Energy use increases with bpm, change in pressure (systolic - diastolic) and the stroke volume (amount of blood pumped per beat).

    Note that there is also an inverse relationship between stroke volume and bpm because the faster the heart beats, the less time for blood to return to the heart for the next beat.

    That said, heart “strength” is more about reserve capacity (ie ability to ramp up when necessary) than energy efficiency. It’s like comparing a Ferrari to a Corolla: at 100 mph the former can still increase its power whereas the latter is getting near its limit.

    So if the Ferrari has a “car attack” and suddenly loses 50% of its max speed then it can still keep up on the highway, the Corolla maybe not. That’s more important than which one is more energy efficient.

    RelativeArea0 ,

    Hi, I hope I dont sound like a contrarian but can you please site a resource for your 1st paragraph? I think it will be an interesting read.

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