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What's your stance on "donating" blood plasma?

I’ve had a little of a debate with a commenter recently where they’ve argued that “donating” (selling, in their words, because you can get money for it) your blood plasma is a scam because it’s for-profit and you’re being exploited.

Now, I only have my German lense to look at this, but I’ve been under the impression that donating blood, plasma, thrombocytes, bone marrow, whatever, is a good thing because you can help an individual in need. I get that, in the case of blood plasma, the companies paying people for their donations must make some kind of profit off that, else they wouldn’t be able to afford paying around 25€ per donation. But I’m not sure if I’d call that a scam. People are all-around, usually, too selfish and self-centered to do things out of the goodness of their hearts, so offering some form of compensation seems like a good idea to me.

In the past, I’ve had my local hospital call me asking for a blood donation, for example, because of an upcoming surgery of a hospitalised kid that shares my blood group. I got money for that too.

What are your guys’ thoughts on the matter? Should it be on donation-basis only and cut out all incentives - monetary or otherwise? Is it fine to get some form of compensation for the donation?

Very curious to see what you think

Sludgeyy ,

You can donate blood in 20 minutes. It takes an hour plus to donate plasma

Am I going to sit in a chair for an hour plus without any compensation? Maybe once or twice here and there. But you can donate plasma at least twice a week.

It requires two donations for a single unit. If you donate once and don’t donate the second, then your first donation is unusable. You have to get them to donate twice.

When I was donating plasma, it paid about $75 for each donation. 50 first, 100 for second. The money is pretty good. $300 a month is a lot for a lot of people.

If you didn’t compensate people for plasma donations, a lot wouldn’t do it. They currently need more people to donate.

Plasma “donation” is a good thing.

Damage ,

youguysgetpaid.jpg ?

Here if you go donate you get a sandwich and a day off work

MutilationWave ,

Do you get paid for the work day? I used to donate plasma twice a week because that $240 a month was the only money I had. I stopped because now I don’t need that money and I work too much to have time for it.

If I got a paid day off work for every donation I would be there as often as they let me.

Damage ,

Depending on what you donate, you may have to wait 3 months between one donation and the next, we often donate whole blood; Plasma donations must be at least two weeks apart I think. I’m pretty sure there must be a limit to the numbers of days off you can get. It’s all managed through the national mutual assitance org, the employer must seek reimbursement through them as they would for sick days.

MutilationWave , (edited )

I’m assuming you’re in Germany? So envious of your labor rights there and in the broader EU.

We were allowed to donate plasma eight times per month. $25 first donation of the week $35 second.

skullgiver ,
@skullgiver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl avatar

You guys get a day off? All we get is time off to donate (also as many cookies and drinks as you want within reason, of course.

Damage ,

TBH most people I know don’t actually take the whole day, we’ve all got too much shit to do at work.

skullgiver ,
@skullgiver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl avatar

That makes a lot of sense.

rustyfish ,
@rustyfish@lemmy.world avatar

Never heard anyone getting payed for donating anything in Germany. You can get an compensation for expenses, yes. But this is not supposed to be a payment for your donation, it is supposed to compensate for your expenses. For example: Finding a babysitter or paying for bus, train, gas. Sometimes you have to make a medical examination beforehand, which also can take some time.

The German Red Cross for example explicitly doesn’t pay the donors so nobody gets the wrong idea and tries to donate as much and often at the cost of their own health.

I think the idea that a compensation is equal to a payment is flawed beyond reason. If someone has a problem with any organisation misusing donations for profit, they should (rightfully) engage in changing the law. Categorically not donating at all is…well it’s just selfish and stupid.

Wrufieotnak , (edited )

Both from Germany:

I remember that in my high school time many in my year went to plasma donation as often as it was allowed to collect the compensation. So while you are right that is legally never called payment, people with a need for cash for sure sell their plasma for money.

Oh and in the public sector there is or at least was in the past also the possibility for donating blood and you get the 2 hours or so for that paid as normal. So the government donated the money for a good course.

golli ,

I am also from Germany and get payed for donating thrombocytes at my university hospital. The compensation is actually quite substantial imo at (up to) 75€ per session, which can be done every two weeks. The money is however mean to offset the time required, not the thrombocytes donated. So it is correlated to how long it takes.

You get 15€ (?) for up to 15min (if they have to abort very early for some reason or at your first visit where they just draw blood to test), 50€ for up to 1h (which equals to 1 instead of 2 pack of thrombocytes, usually done at your first real donation or if you maybe dont have enough for 2 on this particular day), and 75€ for anything over 1h (which is the norm).

Timewise the hospital is on the outskirts of the city, so most will have to travel a bit, then you have to fill out forms, have a quick talk with the doctor, and finally depending on your parameters it takes anywhere from ~55-70min to extract, during which you are tethered to a machine (which takes out some blood, then seperates out the thrombocytes with a centrifuge, pumps back the rest, and repeat).

One could get philosophical about the topic, but from a practical perspective the money makes a lot of sense imo:

  • It costs them a lot of money to investigate new prospects, so you want reliable repeat donors
  • Each donation already has other costs associated with it. Like for example the kit used during extraction, the staff handling everything and so on. So even those 75€ are just one more expense among many, and from donation to usage probably vanish in the overall costs.
  • For the donor it is quite a substantial time commitment, especially when done regularly every two weeks. Unlike for example full blood donations you’d maybe do twice a year. And you should be reliable and not randomly cancel at the last second, so ideally it also has priority over some other things in your life.
  • the small amount of blood that remains inside the machine is sometimes used for other research (if you agree to it, which i do)

From my own experience i can say that i might still do it without, but certainly not at the same frequency. And considering the time and effort required i don’t think anyone could be blamed for doing it less frequently without the incentive. So at least in this case it imo is a fair trade and net positive. Although it does also help that this is a university hospital that directly uses it themselves, rather than a for profit company.

cobysev ,

People are getting paid to donate plasma?! The only scam here is that I’ve been giving it away for free!

I donate to the Red Cross here in America. Honestly, I’m happy to donate. I get to sit and relax for a couple hours, the Red Cross I go to has TVs attached to the chairs so I can watch a movie while I donate, and I get free drinks and snacks afterward.

They’re always hurting for plasma donations and you can donate every 28 days, so I visit frequently. I don’t really see how it could be a scam. They always tell me plasma is more important than blood donations. Blood goes bad quickly, but they can keep plasma for a long time. And pretty much everyone can use it. Unlike blood, which you need a compatible type to use.

I donate because I enjoy helping others. I’m not looking for a way to personally benefit from it, so I don’t really care if they offer to pay or not. I feel like that should be the default mindset going in. But I understand there are people who are hurting financially, and donating blood or plasma is an easy way to make a buck. So I’m fine with them offering to pay for donations.

SaltySalamander ,

Donating blood and donating blood plasma isn't the same thing.

folkrav ,

Where did he say this?

Wrufieotnak , (edited )

They didn’t say that, but the other commenter still speaks about a point that also caught my eye:

It doesn’t matter if donating blood or plasma is able to be longer stored. When you need one of them, you can’t substitute with the other. So the medical area still needs both. So you still need people donating both. If a medical institution is telling me they only collect plasma, I would question their motives, because both are needed for helping people.

Maybe the donating place just gave the short explanation and they meant, that for blood donations there are other better places, but it could also mean, they don’t earn enough money with that. And THAT is I think what the other commenter meant with their admittedly short comment.

folkrav , (edited )

I read it in the sense that they were hurting for plasma donations in particular, and that because they can store it for longer, a single donation has more potential impact, not that they only took plasma donations.

cobysev ,

Yes, this is what I meant. The Red Cross said my blood type is rarely needed in my area so they don’t care about me donating blood. But they’re always needing plasma donations, and you can donate them more frequently than blood, so they recommend I do that instead.

Sumocat ,
@Sumocat@lemmy.world avatar

If your blood plasma helps save somebody’s life, either directly as an infusion or indirectly in research, that’s not a scam. The monetary reward is compensation for time and an incentive to try to meet demand. The donation is free, but the time and energy required to make the donation are an expense. That’s what the compensation covers. It’s only a scam if your donation goes to feed a literal or wannabe vampire or their bathing fetish.

HubertManne ,

Maybe it should be like other charitable donations and there should be a set tax deduction per ml or better yet how about they take enough for donation and decanter a portion out an do blood testing both to make sure the blood is clean but alsoso the individual is aware of they are free of X. You could get like a qr code you can use to identify the results later.

RobotToaster ,
@RobotToaster@mander.xyz avatar

In the UK it’s illegal to pay blood or plasma donors, and I think the only time we’ve had a shortage is due to a cyber attack.

I think they do give you a medal or something after donating a certain number of times.

MrScottyTay ,

Yeah you get different levels of rewards the more you do it but it’s just stuff like fancy looking member cards, medals and pins

skullgiver ,
@skullgiver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl avatar

I first started donating blood when I read about shortages, but it turns out that was mostly other blood types. After the entry testing, they recommended me to switch to plasma donations because my blood type was common enough that they’d probably never need my full blood.

If you have a relatively rare blood type, you may be able to help people even if they have enough blood to help most people.

hostops ,

When people start getting paid for their blood, overall quality of the blood in such country suffers.

hostops , (edited )

Because less rich and more poor people start donating blood. Due to how much health correlates with social status and money.

The mere existence of such buying blood organization has such effect on a whole country.

In my country you can only donate blood for free. But however for your charity government pays you a meal and day of work.

This “compensation” must be low enough and presented in a way people still consider it a charity. Otherwise it has described effect, and people who actually donate blood feel cheated. Also in my country healthcare is “free” and you can receive blood for “free” which seems “fair” to a person who is donating blood.

Source: a book “things you cannot buy with money”

skullgiver ,
@skullgiver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl avatar

I think paying for blood or other bodily fluids is bad. It provides incentive for desperate people (addicts etc.) to lie on the safety forms to keep getting paid.

I know a few people who donate blood despite not getting anything in return. I personally stopped donating plasma after a few times for health reasons (nothing dangerous in the plasma itself, luckily). To me, being able to help a hospital or a person by simply sitting back and watching shows on my tablet is probably the easiest, laziest charity you can support. The snacks are nice, too.

Not everyone can donate blood, but everyone who is able to, you should consider it, even if you won’t get paid for it. You can doom scroll and browse Lemmy like normal, except you’re sitting in a weird chair and get free food.

I suppose in the shittier countries, where all blood donation stuff is run for-profit, you should let them pay you if they’re making a profit off of you, but I still think it brings a bad incentive.

EABOD25 ,

Even if it is for profit, it can still be used to save someone’s life.

tpihkal ,

I don’t have a problem with a for profit model as we live in a monetary system and every donation requires a paid staff and medical supplies as well as a donor’s time and willingness as donating is not without some risk.

It is the infinite profit model that is a problem. The immoral example would be sucking every penny out of patients for blood coming from completely free donations. Or worse, requiring people to pay to donate and manipulating them into doing it.

EABOD25 ,

Preaching to the choir, bud

tpihkal ,

I’m agreeing with and expanding on what you said. It’s an open forum; that’s how conversations work.

EABOD25 ,

Did what I say offend you? I wasn’t being snarky. I was agreeing with you and had nothing further to add

tpihkal ,

No, sorry, I thought you were being snarky.

EABOD25 ,

Nah friend. I agree with you 100%

lucullus ,

In germany - I think - blood and plasma donations are most commonly done with the DRK (German Red Cross). I might be wrong, but DRK is not a for profit organization, but “gemeinnützig”. Organizations with that status get controlled by the government for it, so they are non-profit. I think the 25€ are an incentive to come and donate, just as the chocolate and drinks and the small goodies, that you get there. And you only can get the money, if you go to one of the fixed DRK locations. If the DRK comes to somewhere near you (as they often do with churches, town halls, schools and universities) you don’t get any money. I can at least believe, that these two are monetarily similar for the DRK. If you come to them, they don’t need to pay for getting the equipment and people to you. And providing incentives for donating blood is in effect a good thing, as they are working, thus we have more blood to save lifes.

Ofcourse actors later in the chain are probably profit oriented. Though there I would see the discussion disconnected from the donation. It is more about if we want profit oriented actors in healthcare.

And - as always - the US healthcare system seems to do the worst thing possible every time. Sorry, americans, don’t want to bash you, but capitalism…

DrBob ,
@DrBob@lemmy.ca avatar

I think the larger issue is that the blood supply is for profit in the US. Everyone is getting exploited, including the people that require the transfusion.

I donate regularly in Canada and give it away for free as does everyone else. I don’t donate plasma because it’s not especially useful with my blood type (AB+ is universal for plasma, O- for other products).

Phil_in_here ,

I’m just surprised there isn’t a shadow industry of selling blood products fed on people altruistically donating for free (like, as far as I can tell, every country with public healthcare does) with corrupt pseudo-legal marketing ensuring that blood products are not sold for profit (because they sell the bag, not the blood, or they sell the service of delivering blood, or some bullshit like that)

Elextra ,

U.S. here. I “donate” blood regularly to Vitalant. I enjoy the way they do it. You get “points” or often something free for donating (shirts, your name in their sweepstakes to win something large, etc.). You can use the points to redeem gift cards or choose to “donate” the gift card amount back to the organization.

My thoughts: I think these organizations have more donors when they offer compensation, even small vs if they did not. I saw Red Cross offer a chance to win a PS5 once and I’m quite sure it caught some peoples attention and earned them more first time donors -> potential long-term donors.

Monstera , (edited )

If you get paid it ain’t a donation. It is trading human body parts

shapesandstuff ,

Getting a flat rate compensation of expense isn’t really selling though. I think thats a bit too polemical.

Aatube ,

So?

Monstera ,

Just stating a fact.

BoxedFenders ,
@BoxedFenders@hexbear.net avatar

Yeah, it’s technically illegal to sell blood and plasma but they get around this by paying you for your time instead. Gee, I wonder why this loophole doesn’t work for prostitution.

7bicycles ,

Considering you said you’re german, I think the whole Idea of “Ehrenamt” and subsidiaries of it runs counter to the entire system that has been built. If we monetize everything, I think it’s fine that people get paid for taking time out of their day and bodies to do good shit.

Basically, don’t do unpaid labour in this system?

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