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Are your grandparents and parents nice or tolerant people?

I’ve just been out for food with parents (60’s) and nana (80’s) and I don’t know why I go as they leave me disheartened every time damn time.

In the short span of a couple of hours they (mainly my nana but parents will have silly views too) managed to comment on the number of black athletes at the Olympics (somehow being a bad thing), shit on the upcoming Para-olympics (quote: disabled people should just accept their lot and not try sport), protesters (of any kind) and questioning if any protests have ever been successful, to which I answered the suffragette‘s we’re pretty successful.

Complaining about people being spoilt these days at the same time as my nana confessing she was given food in a bowl at my aunties and refused to eat it unless it was on a plate (seems pretty spoilt to me). Asking for things to be like when she was younger, to which I asked if she was a fan of Nazi Germany as she grew up post WWII.

I guess I am wondering how can I come from a family that seemingly has no compassion for anybody and even less empathy for anybody different than them. They make me angry at times and I know I can be annoying my always challenging their bullshit views, but I can’t sit there and let people take utter nonsense like this.

I haven’t even covered half the awful stuff they say and their warped ideals.

Edit: The other one that irritates me is them (two women ) shitting on female athletes. Like WTF if a female wants to be a footballer what skin is it off their noses. Unless they just bitter they people have more choice to be themselves now.

NONE_dc ,
@NONE_dc@lemmy.world avatar

They grew up in a different era, and as people get older it’s harder for them to let go of backward ideas. Even my mother, a fervent feminist, from time to time makes transphobic comments that are born more out of ignorance than anything else. Sometimes she seems to understand and other times she doesn’t seem to want to understand. My father, on the other hand, is also generally a good person, but his machismo and homophobia are very strong. One day he had said that he would rather shoot himself if he found out that any of his children were Gay, that phrase still haunts me and prevents me from being more open with my bisexuality. I love him dearly, but he is far from perfect. I don’t know what my grandmother’s political views are, but she has always come across as loving and receptive. She taught me to Crochet even though I was a man, she insisted that I pay no attention to anyone who told me it was a woman’s thing. Despite this, she is a simple woman and very disconnected from the outside world, and from what my mother has told me, there was a time when she was terrible. Old people are… Complicated.

snek_boi ,

Check out Christian Welzel’s work on how values have changed over time. The world is becoming more secular and more democratic. Secular in this context means that religion plays less and less of a role in every day life. Democratic in this context means that they believe everyone should be able to pursue their interests and we should have a system that increases all of our capabilities to pursue our interests.

An implication of adopting democratic values is that you understand that your identity is not defined by “white”, “able-bodied”, or whatever, but by the fact that we are aware. By doing this, you’re not giving special treatment to your in-group (whichever it may be), but you’re considering all of humanity (and all aware beings) as equals and as a group that you belong to. Cosmopolitanism is an example of this stance.

Something else that is happening is that the world is becoming more reflexive. Check out Anthony Giddens’ texts on this.

But, to answer your question directly, yes, grandparents and parents are generally less welcoming and less tolerant.

sharkfucker420 ,
@sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml avatar

None of them are obviously bigoted but all of them are complacent at the very least and some of them are certainly internally bigoted and it seeps out

Don_Dickle ,

Well my dad was chill until he would see a nazi because he is a ww2 vet or know a person beating their wives or anything similar. He always felt since he fought for the world that it was his so called destiny to make society better. Don’t know if that is chill or not but I can say that while he may yell and stuff he would never do anything. It was always mom who spanked us with a belt when we fucked up.

MagicShel ,

My folks are chill. My mom and her friends are passionately cool. My dad DGAF. He’s cool, but he’s also a charter boat captain which means lots of sportsmen so he has to be able to ignore/get along with anyone. He just gives a noncommittal grunt and steers the conversation back to fishing.

My father in law is okay. Ex cop so opposite of ACAB. Spouts Fox News bullshit, but he sat out the last election because he has like 8 granddaughters and at least one gay grandson. He’s a good guy as long as you don’t talk about anything political. He accepted my kid when they identified as trans for a bit. (Jury’s still out. Don’t care, they just don’t seem committed to anything right now.)

His brothers, though, what fucking assholes. I have to tolerate them for my wife’s sake because she can’t deal with family strife but I actually had to sit in a public restaurant with one of them making buck teeth and shouting “Ching Chang Chong” when saying something insulting about Asians, then “oh but now I’m racist.” Right you are, motherfucker. Disgusting. Humiliating.

My ability to even mildly rebuke them is limited by my need to keep the peace for my wife. But if I could I’d just tell them to let me know when they are done acting that way, and I’d get a drink at the bar.

jmp242 ,

I think we all have some things that we either don’t talk about to maintain relationships. Of course usually thats respected by both sides.

Do they care that you call them out? Do you dislike doing it? If neither happens it can be useful for people to realize they’re not necessarily holding a position that “everyone does”. It’s useful to be taken out of your bubble I think, and to see “regular people” can have different positions, and maybe try and understand why they do. It might change someone’s mind.

If course if they or you get worked up by the discussion and no one is getting anything out of it, no one is even ‘agree to disagree’ and it’s just causing everyone stress… Then you need to clearly lay out that you don’t like those sorts of comments.

If they ignore you, then you need to decide how much you want the relationship. You could say “I’m serious about these comments. If you don’t want to stop then you need to decide how much you want to see or interact with me. Because I am willing to just avoid these discussions, but I will not keep hearing these comments, and will stop coming.”

shinigamiookamiryuu ,

Mother: Had a very old timey demeanor, perhaps due to her age when it all happened. Was nice but also had that obligatory TV Land level of strictness/sternness. Surprisingly understanding of issues of race, religion, disability, etc. but I had to come out of the closet several times since she didn’t really understand asexuality, which I guess based on her upbringing in the world’s most interesting place is understandable. She also remarked some of the traditions I picked up pieces of later in life seemed convoluted, though did not elaborate on this commentary.

Father: Very different from my mum aside from being from a different part of the same area. He was carefree and I guess nice, but, for technical reasons, also distant from me. It was a very “implied love” type of dynamic. He was tolerant of almost everyone, but if someone were to call our family “all that and a bag of chips”, he consistently considered me the bag of chips, and the weird salt and vinegar kind, to use an analogy. He also showed signs of being annoyed with my special needs.

Grandfather: Most considerate person ever. He gets a perfect score in love and tolerance, even if he seemed quietly upset at my less-than-worldly habits.

Other grandparents: Never knew them that well, if at all.

30p87 ,

My dad couldn’t be cooler. My grandmother and all her friends are very chill too. My grandfather is sometimes grumpy and weird about stuff, but shuts up or changes his mind about it pretty quickly. My mother, and probably that whole part of the family, is pretty conservative-right. Not very nice.

dependencyinjection OP ,

I wish I had a cool grandad and I am happy yours are cool.

Vanth ,
@Vanth@reddthat.com avatar

Asking for things to be like when she was younger, to which I asked if she was a fan of Nazi Germany as she grew up post WWII.

Uh, what? Why the hell would you equate growing up in Germany after WWII with Nazis?

I guess I am wondering how can I come from a family that seemingly has no compassion for anybody and even less empathy for anybody different than them.

Maybe start with yourself? Recognize change is difficult, nostalgia is comfortable, and for someone who grew up pre-internet by several decades, the current world is probably overwhelming at times.

Your family’s comments on the number of black athletes and on paralympics sound sus, but you don’t exactly present yourself as a beacon of inclusivity either.

Self-reflection is a great place to start to grow empathy and understanding of others. Or to discover for oneself when it’s time to cut losses.

dependencyinjection OP ,

So the Nazi comment wasn’t so much Germany, but the fact that she thinks the world is broken now because we like to be inclusive and recognise our failings. I was merely pointing out that her era tried to kill all Jewish people.

I don’t think being inclusive should extend to hate speech against people of colour of disabled people, if that makes me exclusionary then I guess I am happy to exclude those antiquated views.

Self reflection is kinda why I made this post. To see how other people might handle these situations better than I clearly do.

Vanth ,
@Vanth@reddthat.com avatar

“Her era” didn’t try to kill all Jewish people though. She was a child at a point in time after WWII. You’re trying to explain her entire personality with a falsehood. Why?

Non-Nazis can be racist. Sounds like she may be one such person. Still doesn’t mean she’s a Nazi.

schwim ,

Can I ask why you can’t let them talk their nonsense? I know you don’t think you can change them so if you choose to hang out with them, why can’t you just let them be them? I’m not telling you that you should hang out with them, just that joining in on their discussion is a zero sum game.

I chose not to interact with family any longer and haven’t spoken to any of them in years. Not out of anger or spite but simply because none of us were getting anything positive from the relationship.

dependencyinjection OP ,

Sure. I honestly can’t control myself, I go with intentions of rising above it but then I can’t.

I suppose if you’re not trying to let people know that their views are not acceptable then you’re part of the problem.

I realise it’s futile and maybe there is an air of righteousness to my personality that I need to address. I just can’t sit there and allow people in our party to spew hatred without saying something.

I know for a fact that if we had a disabled family member competing in the paras then they would have a different view. Kinda like the only moral abortion is my abortion and I find that deplorable as I try to treat everybody the same whether you’re family or not.

NotAnotherLemmyUser ,

I suppose if you’re not trying to let people know that their views are not acceptable then you’re part of the problem.

Yes, but how are you approaching this discussion?

I think there are different ways to handle this. On one hand you can be hostile and “give them what they deserve”. On the other hand you can engage in friendly arguments.

This is a story about how someone from the Westboro Baptist Church left because of the way that people engaged with her. www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVV2Zk88beY

What’s worth noting from this story, people that were hostile in their interactions with her only served to entrench her further in her ideals.

What caused her to change her mind were the people that had “friendly arguments” and made an effort to learn where she was coming from.

She listed out 4 key points when engaging in difficult conversations. I extracted/paraphrased some of what she said below:

  1. Don’t assume bad intent (assume good or neutral intent instead) - Assuming ill motive almost instantly cuts you off from truly understanding why someone does and believes as they do. We forget that they’re a human being with a lifetime of experience that shaped their mind and we get stuck on that first wave of anger and the conversation has a very hard time ever moving beyond it.
  2. Ask Questions - Asking questions helps us map the disconnect. We can’t present effective arguments if we don’t understand where the other side is coming from.
  3. Stay calm - She though that “[her] rightness justified [her] rudeness”. When things get too hostile during a conversation, tell a joke, recommend a book, change the subject, or excuse yourself from the conversation. The discussion isn’t over, but pause it for a time to let tensions dissapate.
  4. Make the argument - One side effect of having strong beliefs is that we sometimes assume that the value of our position is, or should be, obvious and self-evident. That we shouldn’t have to defend our positions because they’re so clearly right and good. If it were that simple, we would all see things the same way.

You can’t expect others to spontaneously change their minds. If we want change, we have to make the case for it.

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