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ZarkleFarkle ,

Just store infinite money tokens in a magic Orb. Lol. That’s quite easy

Clbull ,

Disclaimer: I work in accountancy (Commercial Finance) but my advice should be taken with a pinch of salt.

  1. Diversify your investments. Have savings across multiple bank accounts so that the unlikely event where one bank fails doesn’t wipe out your financial wealth., and overall don’t put your eggs in one basket.
  2. Currently, the best ROI/passive income you’ll get is from corporate bonds. A cursory glance at the Hargreaves Lansdown website shows me quite a few corporate bonds and gilts that have a voucher rate (% return each year) of over 8 percent. Do bear in mind that a bond is a loan instrument where the ROI is based on both the maturity date (the date you get paid back plus interest) and the overall risk of the debt.
  3. Another good option is to invest in high dividend yield shares or ETFs. These can offer superior returns on investment to the interest you’d get from a savings account.
  4. Avoid day trading or swing trading unless you 100% absolutely know what the fuck you’re doing. Unlike what many YouTube ‘gurus’ claim, making a living off the stock market requires a high amount of starting capital to see any kind of tangible ROI, plus sophisticated stock trading software and knowledge on how to exploit trends.
  5. Same goes for penny stocks (i.e. the FTSE AIM All Share market.) You can make some rookie gains from it. Many of the companies listed on this index are oil/gas/mineral exploratory firms that are likely not going to see any kind of profit unless they strike it big, find a new oil well, lithium mine, etc and get the necessary contracts and investment to extract those resources. They’re penny stocks for a reason.
  6. Side hustles. For example, I have two friends that are karaoke DJs and they get gigs where bars pay them to host nights. Bookkeeping is another one, but you really are going to have a lot of competition in that respect, and you will probably need the right qualifications to do it.
  7. Screw crypto. At best cryptocurrencies are speculative assets that are scarce and expensive because the very nature of how their blockchains were designed make it take exponentially more effort to mine a new coin. At worst, they’re used to launder criminal proceeds (Monero is a good example of one where the blockchain is encrypted.) NFTs are even worse.
AnnaFrankfurter ,

Stockpile canned beans they will become the most valuable currency once the WW3 starts.

aviation_hydrated OP ,

Good advice, thank you for sharing

theshatterstone54 ,

Also, toilet paper?

AnnaFrankfurter ,

You people in a 3rd world country who smear their poop all over themselves can just do whatever you want. But yeah in a post WW3 era I think water will also be way to expensive to clean your ass.

fubarx ,

www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1991/11/29

Shialac ,

Eat the rich

aviation_hydrated OP ,

Cannibalism leads to brain disease, so I’d advise against eating other humans. A common example of this is “mad cow disease”

geneva_convenience ,

Has crypto failed?

Omodi ,

Yes

hglman ,

But also no.

dmegatool , (edited )
@dmegatool@lemmy.ca avatar

BTC 130% up last 365 days. 10% up last 30 days

But seriously if everybody would use crypto, the up and downs wouldn’t matter. The value/pourcentage is only VS Fiat.

bionicjoey ,

Newsflash: currencies shouldn’t wildly fluctuate in value. The fact that people use it like a stock market investment, (and an idiotic one at that, since there is no underlying business), is exactly why it has failed to be a currency.

dmegatool ,
@dmegatool@lemmy.ca avatar

It fluctuate vs the Fiat value, not with itsleft. The supply of BTC is determined, not like the printing machines we got now.

bionicjoey ,

Nothing’s value fluctuates with itself. Money supply is controlled through interest rates in modern economies because it works better than directly controlling the money supply. Your comment betrays an unsurprising lack of understanding of the most basic concepts of economics. You’re just parroting some talking points you’ve heard from techbros.

hglman ,

No, you think economics is a physical science and it isnt. It works like it does bc its been made to work that way. It could work differently.

Also Bitcoin isn’t the only way cryptocurrency could or does work.

aviation_hydrated OP , (edited )

What does the term “wildly fluctuate” mean? In 50 years of USD fiat, gold vs USD has gone from 35$ to ~2000$ per ounce. That seems pretty rapid to me, since I can still talk to living people who experienced it

At least BTC has historically gone up, whereas fiat goes down, although only a few years of data for crypto compared to thousands of fiat, so maybe crypto will do the same as well

rockmeat ,

yeah, it succeeded in scamming a lot of people for their money

Wirlocke ,

As an aside, I’ve often wondered what would happen if everything was automatically adjusted for inflation.

So like cost of living inflates, but then income is adjusted and bank accounts are modified to be their true value before inflation.

Would this patch things up to be effectively 0 inflation? or (more likely) would this cause an absurd runaway effect?

nitefox ,

That it would spiral into more inflation, making your money worthless. Which is exactly what happened in Italy with the Lira

aviation_hydrated OP ,

The issue here is we actually don’t know how much inflation there is because we can’t measure the quantity of fiat, which is why there are dozens of “inflation measures” which just study different baskets

But yeah, if inflation could be measured correctly and everything automatically updated (wages, costs, etc) then I’m not seeing an issue logically. But at that point it’s just a fixed supply of money and prices adjust up and down, irregardless of currency type. That sound reasonable?

Ziggurat ,

what is a good way for the working class (90%+ of all humans) to save

Gonna sound like a dangerous lemmy communist, but vote for parties who want to raise wages and join Union to defend your rights. The main problem is that most working class struggle to finish the month without a negative bank account, once it’s solved, saving become possible again

rockmeat ,

You sound like a decent social-democrat to me

aviation_hydrated OP ,

But if their savings is in fiat, and its stated goal is loose value 2-3% annually, then the working class could never retire unless they make every economic investment choice correctly their entire life to have beaten inflation

anindefinitearticle ,

Which isn’t always plausible to do in a country lacking social safety net, public healthcare, etc.

aviation_hydrated OP ,

Yeah, hence why I’m looking for ideas

Hugh_Jeggs ,

I can confirm, I’ve had two Fiats and neither worked properly

aviation_hydrated OP ,

That’s a bummer, I was hoping they were built better. Are they at least fun to drive?

Hugh_Jeggs ,

The little 500s are hilarious to drive, and a nightmare to own

Really shit quality and always have been

curiousaur ,

Why?

HelixDab2 ,

The title isn’t accurate, so I can’t assume it is.

Fiat currency works precisely because the planet is finite. What you’re thinking of is a currency that’s tied to a finite resource, like a gold standard. Fiat currency works precisely because monetary supply is able to be increased to keep pace with both the population and economic growth. Likewise, fiat currency can be removed from the economy when the economy shrinks (although this hasn’t happened before).

aviation_hydrated OP , (edited )

Gold isn’t finite, its supply increases every year and is the main reason for the stability in its prices. Obviously this can’t continue forever, hence the finite resources on the planet

Two things you’re assuming is fiat can be evenly distributed with population growth and at some point the issuing body will reduce excess supply, neither of these things are common practices and rarely happen

HelixDab2 ,

Gold is the definition of finite. There is only so much gold in the world–by which I mean the 3rd planet revolving around the sun in the solar system that we both reside in–and the only way to make more gold actually makes radioactive gold. THe fact that we haven’t discovered every last atom of it doesn’t make it any less finite.

aviation_hydrated OP ,

Sure, theoretically it’s “finite”, but we do discover more every year so to us, in 2024, it is not finite. Different infinities exist, yes

HelixDab2 ,

Different infinities of a particular finite resource do not exist though. Yes, we discover more every year, but that does not make it an infinite resource. If a country was dumb enough to link their monetary supply to a resource, and then their economic growth outstripped their domestic production of that resource, they would experience deflation, id est, the money you have now would be worth more tomorrow than it is today. Periods of deflation, while rare, always have a catastrophic effect on economies, because no one wants to spend money when the value of that money is increasing. People tend to hoard their money when that happens, which rapidly leads to recession and then depression.

aviation_hydrated OP ,

So other than some good or a country’s clout, what do you suggest is a better alternative for a store of value?

HelixDab2 ,

Your core premise is, again, flawed. You want a good way of storing ‘value’–which is a nebulous concept to start with–and then condition that premise on not using a fiat currency. Fiat currency is the best way of storing that value, and using that value at some point in the future. You could invest in stocks, bonds, money market accounts, or real estate, but that’s all still based on a fiat currency of some kine.

aviation_hydrated OP ,

Value is vague on purpose, since it means that something retains its “essence” tomorrow as good or better than today. Otherwise humans would not even be able to feed themselves since the only reason I can have food in the winter is because I have something to exchange for food from places that have figured out to grow or store food. It also would be a terrible place if we worked very hard today and our returns depreciated rapidly, because there will be times when we can’t work

Sure, stocks and bonds have historically held some value, but is near impossible to out perform base inflation and has gotten worse the last 20+ years. Physical land and tangible long term goods have held up, but difficult to use for trade, hence currency

So you’re just very pro fiat?

HelixDab2 ,

I’m pro-fiat because it works. Crypto is okay, but it’s too volatile, and has too many unknowns, to be a good investment vehicle. Crypto is only useful if you’re actively buying things. Real estate is illiquid. Gold can’t be used readily without being converted to a fiat currency; you aren’t going to be able to convince any grocery store to accept an ounce of gold in place of currency. Treasury bills and bonds nearly always outperform base inflation, even if it’s not by very much. If I’m reading things correctly, the current rate on short-term US treasury bills is about 2% over inflation. Longer term bonds tend to have higher yields. Both are lower than you could expect to get with a money market or index fund. And an index fund is going to have lower yield than a growth fund.

Almost everything out-performs base inflation rates over the long term, because if it didn’t, no one would invest.

aviation_hydrated OP ,

Totally understandable and why change something that functions

GarbageShoot ,

What do you mean fiat doesn’t work on a finite planet? Current economic models certainly don’t work on a finite planet, but fiat was here before them and will be here after they are long gone.

what is a good way for the working class (90%+ of all humans) to save and succeed in this current environment?

There isn’t one. A big chunk of that class can do just fine and you probably already have good normative answers in that respect, but the current economic model is one that demands poverty. Even with all of the ridiculous developments in production we have, the available infrastructure even with the qualms we might have with it, and all the other things going for us that you might want to list, the closest that the current economic model has achieved to escaping its age-old need for having a sizeable portion of the able-bodied population unemployed is by slightly expanding that same portion and then having them sell themselves by the hour and minute in the Gig Economy. If you want that whole 90% of the population to all be able to do well, you need to change the system they are operating within.

Cube6392 ,

Realize that all forms of currency are ultimately a grift to allow a class of violent weirdos to claim ownership over the fruits of our labor and that we could actually just share things with each other without commerce

aviation_hydrated OP ,

I can see this point, but how else do we store our spent engery? I personally don’t want to be working when I’m 90 and the current only option is I have enough saved up something-that-holds-value long enough that I can pay for food and taxes (assuming I can own land)

I understand the frustration, but we are sadly dealt these cards and must play or… And there isn’t much another option

Cube6392 ,

100%. We all play the game because if we don’t we die. The metaphor you see all the time is that the reason were all swimming in this sea of capitalism is because if we don’t we drown. Our participation is not representative of consent I don’t really know what we do in the short and medium term but long term we need to kill capitalism

aviation_hydrated OP ,

If that’s the case, that is quite the bummer, since although there are 8+ billion of us, most of us don’t want to die fighting capitalism since we at least get fed (or a majority does) and those who love capitalism tend to have large weapons that cause destruction beyond my comprehension

I had a shower thought recently about how life itself is such an amazing and odd experience, and that’s why we put up with such terrible things, since the alternative is not great

boaratio ,

Just stop paying your bills.

MNByChoice ,

Barter. Learn a tradable skill. Build a group of friends.

But also save money.

aviation_hydrated OP ,

Good advice, thank you for sharing

thatsnomayo ,

I’m too lazy for this just read Superimperialism

aviation_hydrated OP ,

Good advice, thank you for sharing

thatsnomayo ,

it’s a really good book also the author’s podcasts with radhika desai begin with a good primer on it

aviation_hydrated OP ,

Cool, I’ll check it out

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