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fossphi , to lemmyshitpost in scrumptious

In before the plate cracks

GeneralEmergency , to lemmyshitpost in scrumptious

Maybe the vegans have a point.

Stalinwolf , to lemmyshitpost in ‎ 4‎
@Stalinwolf@lemmy.ca avatar

WHAT’RE’YA BOYYIN?!

MamboGator , (edited )
@MamboGator@lemmy.world avatar

Got a hot ‘n’ ready pepperoni on sale, straynjuh.

Stalinwolf , to lemmyshitpost in scrumptious
@Stalinwolf@lemmy.ca avatar

Bro grabbed that one Alduin skin off the Nexus.

iAvicenna , to lemmyshitpost in scrumptious
@iAvicenna@lemmy.world avatar
  • how would you like your fish?
  • mordored
MamboGator , to lemmyshitpost in scrumptious
@MamboGator@lemmy.world avatar

New Dark Souls great sword just dropped.

Neato , to funny in Yeah, about that…
@Neato@ttrpg.network avatar

Nah. We knew the difference between ignorance and stupidity before then.

hydroptic OP ,

We did not, or at least not universally: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_deficit_model

GorGor ,

I have to admit, even while finding the crooked corners of the internet with rotten and CJ, I did hold onto the belief that access to information was going to lift the masses up out of ignorance. I knew about flamewars since the BBS days. I knew about trolls since rm -rf advice was given. I, in my naivete, seriously underestimated the effects of these phenomenon on society writ large.

OsaErisXero ,

As with many things, I think the point where it all started to go down hill was once facebook became a thing.

Num10ck , to funny in Yeah, about that…

i think actual information is way too difficult to suss out these days with the misinformation campaigns and the paywalls and the trolling, etc.

shit try to do some comparison shopping today and try to figure out which reviews are real and if the thing you’re buying is really the thing you think you’re buying.

hydroptic OP ,

Definitely doesn’t help, and modern machine learning models are only going to make this problem worse.

kakes ,

The signal to noise ratio is getting worse by the day, unfortunately.

Signtist ,

Another issue is that information is easy enough to find that people don’t bother to remember things as much anymore, since they can just look up the majority of stuff on Wikipedia or something if they ever need to know it. It leads to people having a smaller pool of background knowledge, which makes them easier to mislead.

samus12345 ,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

I question whether or not this is true. People will remember things if they find them interesting, so incurious people didn’t know much in the past, either.

PeriodicallyPedantic ,

That’s kind of the point.

We now have access to the information, and we’ve discovered that all along it was our inability to distinguish between misinformation and real information that was causing the stupidity.

ameancow ,

People don’t do their own research past the most cursory google searches at best of times, and now google is absolute garbage and the links that are relevant mostly go to massive SEO whale sites written by AI.

That’s all before you get to the actual mainstream media sites that spout the same commercial news cycle stories, or spread sensationalized headlines and absolute nonsense. I have managed teams of people and on daily calls people talk about news stories they read like “Did you hear they found another spaceship on mars?” and “They found proof that covid was a Chinese bio-weapon!” and similar statements from working, middle-class people who just browse the websites and social media before work. Most people have very little time to dig into things they see, and now once-reputable sites are just cashing in on clickbait and lies.

This is how most people get their news and information, and it’s absolute garbage now. Browse a major news site like MSN and it’s worse than grocery store tabloids from the 1980’s. And don’t even get started about social media like twitter and facebook.

Something happened in the last couple decades that has made people literally just stop caring what’s real or not. I feel like it was an attitude deliberately seeded into our culture, and it’s now maturing as a society that has lost belief in everything and accepts anything.

xilona ,

Agreed: “I feel like it was an attitude deliberately seeded into our culture, and it’s now maturing as a society that has lost belief in everything and accepts anything.”

That is the “feature” and the dead end… The full compliance on anything! No thoughts, no free speech!

John_McMurray ,

Ain’t hard. Bullshit has a smell

xilona ,

But most people don’t know how bullshit smells in the first place… Check the downvotes…

Dettweiler42 ,

Best case example I know of these days: try to shop for a mattress

slurpinderpin , to funny in Yeah, about that…

Turns out, people are just stupid and the more information access you give them the more they can reinforce their stupidity with other idiots’ opinions

hydroptic OP ,

Ex-fucking-actly. Like I said in another recent comment, the problem with the internet is that it allows the worst people you can imagine to form communities, and instead of them essentially dying alone and shunned by anyone who isn’t a complete psychopath they start to think that their fuckwittery is not only acceptable but common

slurpinderpin ,

Yeah it can even be less sinister. The dumbest people can all hear someone of perceived authority (like someone on Rogan for example) who says “there’s actually no proof the world is round” and the idiots can be like “I knew it! I was right all along!” And they’ll never accept anything else because they were “proven right” that one time

It’s the complete degradation of (capital T) Truth

hydroptic OP ,

Oh yeah absolutely, although more often than not those people also tend to have hair-raisingly awful “political” opinions (ie. opinions which only qualify as politics for conservatives, but would usually land anybody else in jail)

slurpinderpin ,

Yeah it’s all bundled together. Before the internet, there were established authorities on certain matters. Now any idiot can go on twitter and claim to be a MD and fool a bunch of other idiots into thinking vaccines are deadly and used for brainwashing.

Like I said before, it’s the complete erosion of actual Truth

ameancow ,

The human brain doesn’t seek logic, it seeks validation and a storyline to explain how you feel. It will whip up stories very easily, but even easier if they’re supplied.

So this system has been exploited to the extreme. It’s our largest vulnerability as a species, that someone can make us feel an emotion and then attach a story to it, and our brains will adhere to that story without question.

expansion921 ,

This is very true, they get thousands of clicks especially by playing on people’s anger and fear.

expansion921 ,

Definitely! Unless you have the ability to think critically, it is very easy to get swept away in the information dump.

snooggums , to funny in Yeah, about that…
@snooggums@midwest.social avatar

I remember seeing a lot of people expand their horizons on all kinds of topics when the internet first started catching on.

Now I think it was because they were actively looking for understanding something new, and did not represent the general population.

hydroptic OP , (edited )

Now I think it was because they were actively looking for understanding something new, and did not represent the general population.

Assuming that intelligence (and I don’t mean IQ or any other psychometric “proxy” for intelligence, but intelligence as an abstract trait) is normally distributed like most other traits, 50% of people are going to be dumber than average because in normal distributions the mean is the median. The “general population” is not smart by any definition.

And anyone trying to claim that intelligence as a concept is completely socially constructed and that there is no difference in intelligence between people, or tries to conflate IQ etc psychometric measures and intelligence, can shove it up their ass.

snooggums ,
@snooggums@midwest.social avatar

I wasn’t even commenting on IQ, just the general population’s interest in even trying to understand new things.

A lot of otherwise smart people I know just can’t get past the indoctrination of bigotry from their youth that is reinforced by conservative media.

hydroptic OP ,

Oh I know you weren’t, it was just a disclaimer because a lot of people seem to think that any references to intelligence specifically mean IQ and go into frankly incredibly tedious tirades on IQ’s faults

gandalf_der_12te ,
@gandalf_der_12te@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

intelligence as an abstract trait

I read something about this two days ago, it’s called “g factor” or something. And yes, it follows a normal distribution.

Apparently, it’s very similar in animals than it is in humans.

hydroptic OP ,

The https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G_factor_(psychometrics) is actually a psychometric construct to an extent, and its distribution isn’t known but it’s generally thought that it’s probably normally distributed. Basically the g factor just summarizes how results on a bunch of different cognitive tasks tend to correlate.

Rivalarrival ,

50% of people are going to be dumber than average because in normal distributions the mean is the median. The “general population” is not smart by any definition.

What if “smart” begins at the 35th percentile, rather than the 50th? What if “gifted” is anything above the 50th percentile?

hydroptic OP , (edited )

What if “smart” begins at the 35th percentile, rather than the 50th?

I didn’t mean that the 50th is where “smart” begins, just that 50% are going to be below average in intelligence.

umbrella , (edited )
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

i think its more about deliberate disinformation than about it being just a subset of people.

i remember everyone was in awe that they could just type out a question and get the best information we had

psvrh , to funny in Yeah, about that…
@psvrh@lemmy.ca avatar

It’s called the Information Deficit Hypothesis.

And yes, it’s been proven wrong.

hydroptic OP ,

Ah I knew there had to be an actual term for it. Thanks!

ofcourse , to funny in Yeah, about that…

Late 90s to 2000s was the decade of internet glory. Then social media and big tech took over. Now with personalized feeds and searches, along with conflict promoting engagement metrics, many people spend their time within echo chambers and those chambers keep getting more partisan. On top of that, rampant misinformation has made it all the more difficult to separate fact from fiction.

hydroptic OP , (edited )

Then social media and big tech took over.

Things like BBSs, Usenet and IRC are all social media. So is Lemmy for that matter.

I don’t think social media itself is the problem, it’s the big tech / purposefully biased algorithmic content selection part that screws it up.

RememberTheApollo_ ,

But you had to deliberately look for BBSs that contained what you wanted. Platforms weren’t as all-encompassing as they are now compared to the scattered and independent phpBB groups of yesteryear. People didn’t have social media in their faces all the time. You had to dial-up and go looking for whatever it was, whether it was AIM, ICQ, or your favorite forum.

No, social media in the super-limited context that it existed in 20 years ago wasn’t an issue. It absolutely is an issue today because of their size, popularity, ease of access, and definitely the algorithms.

Sotuanduso ,

Lemmy can have its fair share of echo chamber syndrome. For example, almost nobody here vocally likes Reddit, and if you post anything pro-Reddit, it’s likely to be met with a lot of negativity. I’m anti-Reddit too, for the record, but it’s good to acknowledge tribalism even when you agree with the tribe. But the nice part is Lemmy can’t have competing echo chambers nearly as easily as Reddit can because we’re so much smaller.

Veticia , to funny in Yeah, about that…
@Veticia@lemmy.ml avatar

The problem with internet was always that access to bullshit is way easier than access to information. Except now the difference gets exponentially bigger, and bullshit is indistinguishable from truth.

rayyy ,

Good information isn’t everywhere. You have to work at finding it or pay for it
Bullshit is everywhere. You have to be careful you don’t step in.

Lemming6969 , to funny in Yeah, about that…

It was always culture

samus12345 , to funny in Yeah, about that…
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

Stupidity has never been because of lack of access to information. That’s ignorance.

expansion921 ,

Certainly ignorance and stupidity are two different things.

Aceticon ,

They do seem to be positivelly correlated, though.

samus12345 ,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

Stupid people don’t care if they’re ignorant and non-stupid people endeavor not to be.

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