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lemmy.today

YoBuckStopsHere , to news in Deaths and Injuries of the Israel/Palestine Conflict prior to the Oct 2023 war
@YoBuckStopsHere@lemmy.world avatar

On this chart, where is the line showing babies and children beheading?

SheeEttin ,

Considering that I haven’t seen any substantiation for those claims, it’s properly charted already at 0.

PenguinJuice ,

Phew. I'm so glad to hear Hamas draws the line at murdering, raping, kidnapping and using human shields. I was really worried they were the bad guys.

nautilus ,

The truth is rarely so convenient

RepulsiveDog4415 ,

Did we look at the same graph? Can you truly say these attacks caused more suffering? Who murdered more innocent children (considering the demographics of Gaza and the indiscriminate nature of Israels bombings in the past)?

I don’t think anyone is innocent here, but if i had to blame someone, it’d be the oppressor, not the opressed.

Why9 ,

You legit looked at this graph, ignored ALL of it, and still went “Hamas bad”.

Why are you here if you’re not going to even try to understand the situation?

Bigmouse ,

Hamas IS bad. They repress secular movements for a free palestine. We shouldn’t forget tho, that is the role Israel intends for them.

Enkers ,

You mean the made up babies that everyone who claimed they existed are now backpedaling on?

wildbus8979 ,
nothingcorporate OP ,

Before we just dig in and point fingers, maybe we can get on the same page? Nobody is saying murdering babies is ok, as others pointed out, that has not been substantiated. Assuming we’re all against murdering innocent people, the point of the chart/linked article, is to understand the circumstances that make a powder keg for violence.

Think of it this way: pointing out that having a table full of wood shavings and gasoline out in the sun is likely to cause a fire is NOT pro-fire or justifying fire; it’s pointing out the conditions that foster the growth of fire because you want less fire to exist in the world.

Seytoux ,

It’s not that hard to read fam.

The title of the chart clearly states prior to the Oct 2022 war. So …

SheeEttin ,

*2023

Seytoux ,

You are correct, damn typo, thanks!

RepulsiveDog4415 ,

I always think to myself “No one could possibly believe such blatant propaganda” and then i read comments like these. Why behead them? Why don’t you behead the adults? Do you carry a dedicated baby knife for that?

It’s not like they’d be innocent without beheading babies… But i guess dehumanizing them like this makes it easier to justify the atrocities that are sure to be commited as a reaction to this.

It kinda makes me wonder how much of the things i assume to be true are the product of propaganda aswell.

mrpants ,

They intentionally slaughtered a massive amount of civilians in a blatant act of terrorism. The people that did this don’t believe Jews to be worthy of living. True or not anyone who can believe and do these things isn’t too far off from being capable of beheading babies.

RepulsiveDog4415 ,

They intentionally slaughtered a massive amount of civilians in a blatant act of terrorism.

Yes they did. So did the israely military in Gaza.

The people that did this don’t believe Jews to be worthy of living.

I wonder why. Not saying i agree but i understand their anger and frustration. What growing up in an open air prison does to a mf…

True or not anyone who can believe and do these things isn’t too far off from being capable of beheading babies.

What ever helps you justify the indiscriminate violence Israel will be unleashing on the palistinian population. Realisticly there is no way to distinguish between Hamas fighters and civilians. But i guess those are 2nd class civilians anyway, or are Hamas themselves, right?

Why9 ,

It’s not on the chart. Not only did it not happen prior to the current October 2023 war (as it clearly states in the title of the graph and the post), it didn’t happen at all.

What did happen is the overwhelming murder and maiming of innocent civilians who have no way to defend themselves, against one of the most powerful nations on the planet.

Not_mikey ,

And here we see one of the rights favorite tactics. Focus on the most lurid horrifying story, usually involving a white woman or child, to demonize and marginalize a group of people while completely ignoring the statistics of whose actually being victimized. You saw it in the Jim crow south with stories of negros raping white women, you saw it in nazi Germany with stories of Jews sacrificing German babies, and now you see it in the defense of Israel.

YoBuckStopsHere ,
@YoBuckStopsHere@lemmy.world avatar

The battle for hearts and minds.

nothingcorporate OP , to news in Deaths and Injuries of the Israel/Palestine Conflict prior to the Oct 2023 war

As The Intercept pointed out this week, this is Israel’s 9/11 in that it is a horrific event they didn’t see coming, but when you stop to look at the powder keg they created, they absolutely should have.

ericisshort ,

And just like 9/11, they were warned of the attack weeks in advance but were still woefully unprepared to protect their citizens.

Alteon ,

I’m worried that they DID know, and are using this as an excuse to further their agenda against Palestinians.

ericisshort ,

That’s sadly a possibility.

migo ,

With the Netanyahu government, that’s the more plausible explanation.

Flyswat ,

Well, it worked in the US /s

Cocodapuf ,

Well, it really did work in the US. This is literally what happened at Pearl Harbor.

Roosevelt knew the attack was coming, very much so, our intelligence was good. But he needed the attack to happen, so he let it happen.

At the time, Europe was at war and our allies desperately needed help, but the US had been dragging it’s heels about getting involved for years. Roosevelt wanted to enter the war and support our allies, but congress just didn’t want to make the official declaration of war. But after the attack on Pearl harbor, that declaration came in short order, just as Roosevelt knew it would.

Infraggable , (edited )

This is untrue. This is a false conspiracy theory that people keep repeating that has no facts to back it up. This one bugs me becausey grandfather was in the merchant Marines and was stationed there when this happened. People parroting that untrue fact drove him bonkers.

jarfil , (edited )

This is untrue

Which part?

Did the people stationed there get warned? Did merchant Marines have access to top brass intelligence reports? Did Roosevelt have a different motivation? Did Pearl Harbor not happen…?

Infraggable ,

The whole “Rosevelt knew claim”. It is one of those false clames that gets repeated so often.

jarfil , (edited )

The problem with claiming the opposite, are things like Patton’s pretty much spot on prediction of the attack, the fact that intelligence at the time was routed through Washington, with capability to break the Japanese codes, or the still not declassified documents relating some pre-attack intercepts.

It all suggests that Roosevelt, and/or his staff, had all the pieces to figure out what was going to happen. Whether they didn’t, or did and decided to do nothing, and the lack of proof either way… is what makes the conspiracy theory keep being a possible conspiracy theory. 🤷

aesthelete , (edited )

is what makes the conspiracy theory keep being a possible conspiracy theory. 🤷

Conspiracy theories continuing to be conspiracy theories requires no causation, because spurious theorizing in general sits outside of logic and reason.

We still have lots of assholes who think the earth being round is a conspiracy pushed on us by big science or whatever, or that “jet fuel can’t melt steel beams” (presumably they don’t understand how kindling works), or that 5g causes COVID, and even bizarrely that COVID is both a Chinese conspiracy at the same time as it is a hoax and/or harmless.

Conspiratorial thinking isn’t driven by reason, logic, or facts. It’s tolerated most by people who have no issues with and/or sense of cognitive dissonance. It’s more similar to a distributed form of cultism. It’s one of creativity’s awful cousins.

jarfil ,

You’re conflating “conspiratorial thinking” with “conspiracy theories”.

Conspiracies are a real thing, they happen all the time (and most are punishable by law); conspiratorial thinking is people coming up with, and believing, conspiracies no matter how impossible they are, which is way different from actual conspiracies.

“Conspiracy theories” just happens to be a term that can be used in both cases, it doesn’t mean all of them are impossible.

aesthelete ,

Nah, I’m not.

Conspiratorial thinking is what gives you the bunkum conspiracy theories, and the evidence or lack thereof has nothing to do with their production.

As far as I can tell from my reading they come more from an environment of distrust often combined with disordered thinking.

Sure there can be actual conspiracies, but they also usually come with accompanying evidence and more than hunches, hindsight, or temporally related events.

jarfil ,

Sure there can be actual conspiracies, but they also usually come with accompanying evidence and more than hunches, hindsight, or temporally related events.

Evidence is what turns a “conspiracy theory” into either a “proven conspiracy” or a “debunked conspiracy”. Without the former, there would be none of the latter… not sure how is that hard to understand.

aesthelete , (edited )

Still waiting for the actual, solid evidence behind your conjecture.

See the thing is that logical thinking follows the evidence rather than jumping to conclusions.

Lojcs ,

What was the prior situation with the reservists? Did they backtrack on their no show threats before the war broke or was the war what forced them to show up

hydro033 ,

It's not that easy. There is constant information coming in all the time and intelligent agents need to parse signal from noise. It's not every single bit of intelligence regarding an attack comes into fruition. In fact, it's quite the opposite. This is an extremely difficult signal detection problem, one with lives at stake.

Eezyville ,
@Eezyville@sh.itjust.works avatar

Also they did have radar signatures of the attack incoming but radar tech was new and they didn’t trust it.

ericisshort ,

Please tell me you’re being facetious, because radar has been in use for more than 80 years.

nocturne213 ,

That would make the radar tech very old and likely you could not trust their work either.

ericisshort ,

Well by that logic, we should be really suspicious of tech like the wheel or the plow.

nrezcm ,

Which is why I have never used a plow before and never plan to.

ericisshort ,

Good. And I hope you don’t eat any food that contains ingredients that come from fields, or else you’re buying into big plow whether you like it or not.

WhiteHawk ,

Big brain time

Eezyville ,
@Eezyville@sh.itjust.works avatar

80 years ago is the 1940’s. But the report was ignored due to lack of training. The way I heard, it was due to radar being relatively new, untested, and thus untrusted.

ericisshort ,

I’m confused. When did this conversation divert to Pearl Harbor?

bitwaba ,

I think they responded to the wrong person. There’s a pearl harbor tangent happening above this.

SaiPenguin ,

I believe that radar should be read as radar system. That is to say it was a new radar system that had not been fully learned yet not that radar as a concept was new.

Cocodapuf ,

What are you talking about?

blue_zephyr ,

And just like 9/11, their response is sowing death to countless civilians.

blewit ,

How? By unilaterally leaving Gaza in 2007? To blocking the boarders to avoid rockets from being smuggled in that they were using to shoot at Israel towns for 15 years?

I know I’m taking to a shill or a bot or just someone who isn’t actually aware of what’s going on, but you’re grossly misinformed.

Palestinians have had all the opportunity to choose peace. They’ve chosen war. Now they will suffer the consequences.

Please, do me a favor and just block me. I don’t need your replies and don’t need to see your incompetent drivel.

Shiggles ,

I’m sure they put it up to a democratic vote and only went through with it after getting the unanimous agreement of every single Palestinian in Gaza.

blewit ,

pbs.org/…/what-is-hamas-what-to-know-about-its-or…

Educate yourself. The answer is in the article. Spoiler: Yes, the Palestinians in Gaza elected Hamas as their leadership.

Shiggles ,

Did you even read my comment?

lolcatnip ,

You are speaking of Palestinians as a monolith. If you apply the same logic to Israelis, Palestinians are perfectly justified in attacking them. Hamas and Likud are both terrorist organizations. Targeting civilians is a war crime no matter who does it or why they say it’s justified.

blewit ,

What’s you’re saying doesn’t even make sense.

Communities elect leaders. Gaza elected Hamas.

As for targeting civilians, Hamas for over 15 years has been indiscriminately firing rockets on civilian towns. Been there. Seen it first hand. Have you?

Israel has attacked Gaza, no doubt. But it warns in advance. Calls every resident. “Knocks” on the roof prior. Gives time for the civilians to leave. You know what Hamas does - tells them to stay. Makes them human shields.

It’s a choice the Palestinians in Gaza make. They should chose differently.

lolcatnip ,

So you think it’s also ok to hold Israel as whole responsible for the actions of monsters like Ariel Sharon and Benjamin Netanyahu? Should we hold all Russians responsible for Putin, and blame all Americans for the Iraq war?

Kachilde ,

By not forcing Palestinians out of their homes to house Americans: aljazeera.com/…/if-i-dont-steal-your-home-someone…

By not voting in a government that openly supports the eradication of a people that they claim are not a culture: pbs.org/…/no-such-thing-as-palestinian-people-top…

By not commuting further war crimes by doling our collective punishment on civilians: amnesty.org/…/israel-opt-israel-must-lift-illegal…

This video was posted in May 2021, and is still relevant: youtu.be/INCXqWzH5vk?si=xxvSkiBcRtkZwZVa

War crimes are being committed on both sides, but one side is in a far better political, economic, and defensive position. Treaties and councils have been written, but if the stronger party decides they want to break those agreements, and suffers no repercussions from doing so (so far as having essentially full support from the US government at one point), what can the smaller group do? Roll over and let their people be extinguished by a callous and racist government?

I do not condone attacks from either side, but saying that Palestine is “suffering the consequences”, while ignoring the actions that led to this attack (which could be seen as Israel suffering their own consequences) is short sighted and cruel.

blewit ,

I don’t argue there is a complicated history. I don’t deny there are folks in the Israeli government that have small minded opinions. But to say there is no Arab representation in the Israeli government is false. To suggest that bigot views of one minister represents the position of the nation, or dictates it is misunderstanding the parliamentary government in Israel.

What I’m saying is that the Palestinians in Gaza have had an amazing opportunity to choose their own destiny. Israel pulled out without preconditions. Left the agricultural industry in place. There wasn’t a blockade until the people of Gaza chose Hamas, and Hamas chose to follow its charter of hate rather than build up its own population. The only reason the people of Gaza are in the locked down situation they’ve been in is simply because Hamas choose aggression and Israel needs to secure its people. Now Israel failed this past week and Hamas got an opportunity to execute its mission. And it has to the horror of even you, I’m sure.

This is the bed the people of Gaza made. Now they need to sleep in it. Sorry. That sucks. But you need to be held accountable for your decisions.

Malfeasant ,

Just look at is the body count. Israel kills or maims 10 or more Palestinians for every one Israeli casualty. That sounds less like defense and more like overwhelming offense.

abbotsbury ,
@abbotsbury@lemmy.world avatar

I know I’m taking to a shill or a bot or just someone who isn’t actually aware of what’s going on, but you’re grossly misinformed.

Is this your default reaction to seeing something you disagree with?

blewit ,

No. It’s my hope that real people are smarter than this.

wahming ,

Amen, we can all agree on that point.

OccamsTeapot ,

deleted_by_moderator

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  • Something_Complex ,

    The bigger problem is that they probably knew. They where informed by Egypt intelligence…

    If that is true, then they might have let it happen as an excuse to take Gaza in retribution

    gummybootpiloot ,

    Let’s not spread conspiracy theories without good sources

    lennybird ,
    @lennybird@lemmy.world avatar

    US Congressional members with security clearances corroborated this, did they not?

    Gerbler ,

    They didn’t corroborate that Israel let this happen as justification to level Gaza. That’s the conspiracy theory the user above is urging not to spread.

    lennybird ,
    @lennybird@lemmy.world avatar

    Fair point. Though to me it’s of little relevance; for either they were grossly incompetent or they let it happen intentionally.

    Given the historical evidence behind the Shock Doctrine, I’m convinced that is what’s playing out here.

    tym ,

    So, Israel’s 9/11 then? It wasn’t a coincidence that NORAD was on training exercises that day.

    jarfil , (edited )
    Miqo , to news in Threats to Tigard-Tualatin Sch. Dist.

    OP is a vaccine conspiracy theorist and the tabloid they sha red is anti-trans shit. Here’s a more reliable source:

    oregonlive.com/…/portland-area-middle-school-evac…

    fluid_neutral OP ,

    I think Redux first break the story and they got threats

    fluid_neutral OP , to news in Threats to Tigard-Tualatin Sch. Dist.
    robsuto , to worldnews in Fitness enthusiasts are dying suddenly - 16 sudden deaths examined

    16? You only mention 1.

    AdmiralShat , to technology in Humble Bundle expressing their feelings about Unity

    Be warned, Zenva runs on cloudflare and if you’re on mobile, you’ll be rate limited. I’m currently locked out of my brand new zenva purchases because of this stupid shit.

    seitanic , to technology in Humble Bundle expressing their feelings about Unity
    @seitanic@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

    So, I guess you could say a lot of people are waiting for this?

    Da_Boom , to technology in Humble Bundle expressing their feelings about Unity
    @Da_Boom@iusearchlinux.fyi avatar

    Except they also have 2 bundles for unity and 1 for unreal. This is just cherry picked.

    Kyoyeou , to technology in Humble Bundle expressing their feelings about Unity

    Reminds me even more of the DnD problem. The Pathfinder 2 bundle was insane, happy I got it

    ICastFist , to technology in Humble Bundle expressing their feelings about Unity
    @ICastFist@programming.dev avatar

    I think it was mostly Zenva rushing to get some sweet cash while the drama and popcorn around Unity are still hot. HumbleBundle being anything but humble of course would set it up ASAP, I bet the charity was decided from a random wheel they keep around.

    I hazard this guess because most other Zenva bundles offer Unity and/or Unreal courses. Also, a large portion of those Godot videos are “HumbleBundle Exclusives”, so stuff that they likely haven’t finished yet

    SaltySalamander , to technology in Humble Bundle expressing their feelings about Unity
    @SaltySalamander@kbin.social avatar

    Know what would have made this post actually useful? A link to the fucking sale.

    can ,
    Potatos_are_not_friends ,

    Reminder to max out the donation to either the publisher or the charity, and leave as little for Humble Bundle as possible.

    MisterHavoc ,

    Why. Not fighting you. Genuinely wanna know lol

    Waldemar_Firehammer ,

    The general sentiment is that the publisher did all the work, and the charity needs the money the most. Humble Bundle is a fantastic platform, but they are a middle man than takes a slice for bundling the products and presenting them to you. That has value, but the other two options deserve a majority of the pie.

    can , (edited )

    They used to let you donate nothing to Humble but now a portion is mandatory.

    MisterHavoc ,

    Ok I see what you mean from reading other comments. Thanks for the tip

    m750 ,

    This is like common practice here… talk about something. But don’t actually link or post it

    GhostlyPixel , to technology in Humble Bundle expressing their feelings about Unity
    @GhostlyPixel@lemmy.world avatar

    I got an email advertising a learn unity bundle from them this morning, I don’t think they have a stance lol

    Cheesus ,

    Their stance is more money please

    Rai ,

    same tho

    ech ,

    Reminiscent of the Elvis manager that sold “I Hate Elvis” buttons along with his “I Love Elvis” buttons.

    luciferofastora ,

    I mean, if Elvis got a cut of that in some way (or we can bend the logic of which cash went where enough for this joke to work), odds are he spent at least some of it on drinks, figuratively drinking the tears of his haters.

    Anonymousllama , to technology in Humble Bundle expressing their feelings about Unity

    How are these tutorials overall though. Humble has pushed out some real stinkers before from no-name tutorial mills so I’m always a bit way.

    I know from their blender sales that some of the places they partner with are legitimately shit (low quality recordings, poor sound, poor pacing, not showing screen keys, poor instructor guidance etc)

    naticus ,

    No idea, but if you want to give it a try, let me know and I’ll give you the keys.

    learningduck ,

    On Godot subreddit, some one complained that the pixel art course, which is worth $50(Zenva’s default price) and included in this bundle has a poor quality and it’s obvious that the instructor isn’t an expert in the field.

    phx ,

    Yeah was discussing this with a friend and basically this is exactly why I don’t buy these bundles. They’re often not really at the level of proper martial created by an educational institution, but more collections of stuff that you might otherwise find on YouTube etc

    Potatos_are_not_friends ,

    Zenva’s instructors are extremely hit and miss.

    Many feel like amateurs who made 1 test project and are now teaching it.

    The phaser tutorial felt like the instructor was a C# developer trying to teach JavaScript.

    The only reason I support them because there’s literally no other paid courses on a bunch of game development subjects that are in one easy to read place.

    theneverfox ,
    @theneverfox@pawb.social avatar

    I actually started writing a Godot course at my friends urging after I taught it to him over meets, but hated the sound of my voice and only recorded the first lesson. Is this something needed that I could make actual money on?

    CosmoNova , to technology in Humble Bundle expressing their feelings about Unity

    Apparently not enough feelings to take their “learn unity” bundle down that’s still going for 10 days. The little money it raised so far is laughable compared to the Godot bundle.

    drspod , to technology in Humble Bundle expressing their feelings about Unity
    Not_Alec_Baldwin ,

    I see these bundles but I always assume they are trash.

    Are they trash? I haven’t been interested until now, but I’ve been meaning to learn a bit of game dev as a hobby and unity isn’t really an option anymore.

    anteaters ,

    I did buy one of those Zenva bundles some time ago for Godot - seems to have very similar content to this one. It’s alright. Target audience are beginners but I suspect that we’ll get a lot more beginner tutorials on YT anyways.

    Not_Alec_Baldwin ,

    That’s always the conflict here, the free content on YouTube is just frequently so good. I guess I’ll just take a look for godot stuff right now and then decide.

    BigVault ,
    @BigVault@kbin.social avatar

    I much prefer written guides for anything that interests me over YouTube videos that are unnecessarily long. Plus the false attempts to get engagement (sometimes by making statements that are maliciously stupid) to appease the algorithm like:

    What are your preferred ways to consume content? I prefer carrier pigeon, it’s easily the best. Let me know in the comments below if you have a preferred way, and don’t forget to like and subscribe.

    Really annoying, like our sponsor….

    Cyreld ,

    I had assumed these guides were in video form. If they’re written guides I might actually be more interested since I prefer that too

    newIdentity ,

    Depends if you’re interested in them or not. I bought the NisiOisiN (Monogatari series) bundle a few years ago and got my value out of it. Too bad the Metadata wasn’t in the same format on all of them and I had to edit it afterwards.

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