The funny thing: both memes are true… We live in a fkin disgusting world where every system oppresses. People who think capitalism works for the people are equally braindead as the ones claiming China and Russia are communist utopias.
Sure Marxist communism could be great, but it yet has to be archived
Nobody thinks that Russia is communist. However, whatever you want to call China, it’s objectively better than what we have in the west. One thing to note though is that 87.6% of young Chinese identify with Marxism, and the Communist party has 95 million members.
China lifted 800 million out of poverty, and in fact China is the only place in a world where any meaningful poverty reduction is happening. If we take China out of the equation poverty actually increased in real terms:
90% of families in the country own their home giving China one of the highest home ownership rates in the world. What’s more is that 80% of these homes are owned outright, without mortgages or any other leans.
Real wage (i.e. the wage adjusted for the prices you pay) has gone up 4x in the past 25 years, more than any other country. This is staggering considering it’s the most populous country on the planet. People in China also enjoy high social mobility.
Unsurprisingly, government satisfaction in China is extremely high and unmatched by any western democracy:
Numerous studies and surveys also show that people who actually live in China feel their country is democratic in a sense of having a government that works in the interest of the majority. In fact, far higher percentage of people living in China feel their system is democratic than those living in US
Finally, China is the only major country that’s actually doing anything meaningful to transition off fossil fuels. Once again, making absolutely stunning progress this year alone.
So, yeah, China might not be an utopia, and they have plenty of problems. However, it is a country where life continues to improve with each and every decade, that doesn’t suffer from constant economic crashes the way capitalist shitholes do, and where people are happy and optimistic about the future. Seems like looking at what China is doing and learning from that might be a good start for people in the west.
It’s also fascinating to me how the same people who like to do purity tests for China claiming they’re not actually communist are also the ones who’ll defend places like US or Canada saying yeah it’s not perfect, but it’s the ideal of the system that matters.
It’s such an incredible example of cognitive dissonance. People able to recognize that their own system doesn’t live up to the ideal they have in their heads, but still treat it as a valid interpretation of the idea, but when it comes to a system they dislike then the same logic doesn’t apply all of a sudden.
i think your projecting something here or making a deliberate strawman, read my first sentence again and tell me where I am “able to recognize that [my] own system doesn’t live up to the ideal [i] have in [my] heads, but still treat it as a valid interpretation of the idea, but when it comes to a system [i] dislike then the same logic doesn’t apply all of a sudden.”
Nobody is projecting anything here or making ant strawman. You made a false equivalence claiming that both US and China are bad. I gave you concrete examples of China continuously improving lives of its people, and being pretty much the only place in the world where major quality of life improvements are happening for the majority. If you can’t understand that, then what else is there to tell you.
Do you think China is a Marxist utopia? Because if not I don’t know why you are so butthurt by my comment, if yes my point stands.
Not sure what you are trying to proof here, to me it seems like you have two simple categories in your head: “pro me” and “anti me” and you assume everyone in the same category must be the same. I remotely mention that I don’t think China is heaven on earth and you start to talk about how I must be mentally derailed or something.
I think calling the us democratic is far fetched, butcallingg China democratic is not very close to the truth either.
Nah I don’t think China is an utopia. I just think it’s far better than what US offers. If you can’t understand that one thing can be better than the other without either being some sort of an utopia, what else is there to say.
“People who think China is a communist utopia are idiots”
And
“There is NO good aspekt of China AT ALL”
Are two different sentences and you don’t need to start calling me mentally derailed or make site long fanboy essays about China, what else there is to say?
It’s such an incredible example of cognitive dissonance. People able to recognize that their own system doesn’t live up to the ideal they have in their heads, but still treat it as a valid interpretation of the idea, but when it comes to a system they dislike then the same logic doesn’t apply all of a sudden.
As is said, it seems like you are working with only two categories in your head: “pro China” and “pro us”
That one can criticise one of them without liking the other doesn’t seem to fit in your head
Yeah that’s me, and being able to recognize that one system is a better option than the other has nothing to do with the straw man you keep making. It seems like you’re having a really hard time wrapping your head around the concept that one thing can be preferable to another without either being perfect.
Yeah, please give up on pretending you were trying to reason. What you were doing was making a transparent straw man and ignoring what I told you. That’s just lazy trolling.
Its not an as hominem attack kid ^^ Ad hominem would be: you are an idiot and therefore wrong. What he says is “you write wrong stuff and are therfore an idiot”
So, you’re saying that the Global South (either Africa or South America) has made major, concerted attempts at creating effective capitalist states?
There’s a few examples. Australia, of course, though Leftists will obviously discount it.
Chile very deliberately adopted capitalism, though it was under an oppressive dictator. Even so, it’s #3 on the list of South American countries for per-capita GDP these days, and is topping the list for political freedoms.
Uruguay, with it’s famously beige recent politics, is #1.
Of course, you have Indonesia, which has been doing pretty well recently. I wonder why? (/s)
Malaysia and Singapore are technically in the northern hemisphere, so they don’t count I guess…
Most of South America has historically swung radically back and forth between left and right (yes, in part due to US pressure). There’s a leftward swing again. Let’s see how it goes this time! Good news is that if it fails, they can just blame external forces yet again.
and now your making a strawman argument. do you try to play some sort of bogus-argument-bingo?
What is said was: “what a did was not an ad hominem atack”
now your comment starts with: “So, you’re saying that the Global South (either Africa or South America) has made major, concerted attempts at creating effective capitalist states?”
and you even dare to start with: "so what your saying is … "
no thats not at all what i said, i didnt mention the globale south, i didnt metion capitalism, i didnt even agree with OP on his meme.
but thats what you argue against. Do you really not see this or are you a troll?
Well this is a blast from the past. I can’t even load the context anymore.
I was engaged in an argument, and staying focused on the argument instead of getting sidetracked by semantics. But anyway, you claimed “it’s not ad hominem, he said you were wrong therefore you are stupid!” That rests on the assumption that I was wrong, so I was assuming that was your assertion.
I think. This was, after all, months ago, and apparently the account I was arguing with got deleted or something?
It would be an ad hominem Argument if he would take your personality/looks/person as an argument against your talking point/what you say.
This is not the case here. He argues against your talking point/what you say and uses that as an argument against your person.
It doesn’t matter what side of you both is right content wise, its not ad hominem either way, as you botth argue about the information itself. (Plus making [unnessesary] assumptions about each others personality based on the opinion they have in the information)
As homin is ONLY if you use the person saying the opinion against the opinion.
If you use the opinion the person says as an argument against the person, that something totally different and quite logic frankly.
For example: If trump says: poc are violent
Ad hominem would be: this is wrong BECAUSE trump said it.
Normal arguing is: trump is saying this, therefore he is a racist/dumb/wrong.
Two very different things.
And atacking others for caring two much about semantics when you make false (semantic) allegations is another sign of bad discussion style IMHO
I have no hard feelings about this thread, but it bothers me when people are discussing in awaty that is bound to fail, so I wanted to clarify this
Communism is a bunch of random people climbing on eachothers back and when one gets to the top he is expected to pull the others up. Which is great if he’s a good person but most people aren’t.
Unlike capitalism, which is a bunch of random people climbing on eachothers back and when one gets to the top he is not expected to pull the others up.
But then he’s valued more and gets tax breaks if he allows others to make him more money by producing value for him. Then he’s a job creator for having ownership of the means of production.
The doom and gloom has been happening since the early 70's yet here we are when we should have been frozen, burnt to a crisp, frozen, dehydrated to death, seen New York City underwater, burnt to a crisp again and then frozen. The headlines could be made by a Magic 8 Ball. Its not science when the data is hidden by the words "Proprietary"
Most predictions that have been made have been coming true. Can you show me where any of your examples were stated to have happened by 2023?
Also you do realize other places in the world will have different climate change effects… so two extreme weather patterns could happen at once its not like it would be one quick hug of death
To be honest I find that OpenBSD and the BSD’s in general to be a bit more intuitive than most Linux distros, that would be my main reason, OpenBSD specifically being the most intuitive, it’s little things like connecting to wifi, on OpenBSD it’s really straight foward from the command line but on Linux I just get a headache and I install a GUI for it, but maybe im just dumb and dont understand wpa_supplicant lol. OpenBSD specifically is a minimal OS but it’s really usable out of the box, it feels complete unlike a lot of Linux distros, hardware compatibility is not going to be up to the Linux standard but I have never really had a problem on any ThinkPads. People say the performance for OpenBSD is not great and I suppose that’s true as it’s mainly focused on security but you can make tweaks to make it faster, I have mine in a startup script, but these tweaks will make it less secure. Also the structure of pretty much all the BSD’s filesystems are cleaner than Linux’s, everything has it’s own place rather than being dumped wherever like in Linux, just compare the /bin on Linux to a BSD, it seems removed at first but then you get use to it and finding stuff is a lot easier, I actually understand my system now. Last, the codebase is smaller, for OpenBSD atleast, compare the GNU core utils to any of the BSD core utils and there is a difference of thousands of lines of code, but that’s not really a Linux issue just a GNU issue.
TLDR: Feels like a complete OS, minimal, cleaner, more intutive than (most) Linux distros
Maybe it needs a rebranding. If people have heard of linux, they think it’s for devs, IT nerds, too complicated, etc. Most of the people just have never heard of linux because they don’t look out for it. Most people don’t know what FOSS is, etc. People just don’t know that their OS is spying on them. Chromeos is linux, it’s in every store. Linux made it. Gnu didn’t.
Easier than I thought it was going to be, but I had a ton of experience with various window managers under Xorg. The difference comes in swapping out certain tools for their wayland counterparts. Example using wofi or fuzzel, instead of rofi, imv, instead of feh, grim, instead of scrot, swaybg or hyprpaper, instead of nitrogen, mako, instead of dunst. The alternatives are there, you just have to make the necessary small adjustments.
If you want to try Hyprland check out this guy’s video and config files. You can get a working and usable setup very easily.
lemmy.ml
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