Life long windows user currently dual booting and trying to fully switch.
Iâve gotten used to the terminal and Iâm no stranger to editing config files but I still find myself saying âThis could literally be a toggle or drop down menuâ
I can mostly put up with it but I got friends who REALLY hate digging into files for basic stuff like global dark mode, If itâs not in a GUI itâs as good as none existent to some.
Yeah honestly same, I hate having to sudo into random system files to change something basic or having to open a terminal and remember the specific magic words to do what I need
so whenever I have the option I use GUI over CLI every time
This is heavily influenced by choice of DE. Some of them really do have all their options well laid out in the system settings, but others rely entirely on config files. I have little experience with GNOME, but with KDE I was able to customize my experience very heavily using only the system settings by just playing around in the GUI. Meanwhile, on another machine running Hyprland, I have had to read a lot of documentation in order to customize it, but the available options are relatively more powerful than the KDE setup.
Neither of these methods are more right than the other, but one is absolutely more new-user friendly, assuming they do not want to simply accept the defaults.
To be honest, one part is what everyone mentioned here. Not being preinstalled and all that.
The other part is that unfortunately at least according to my own expirence as a Linux noob a few years ago some Linux communities can be very toxic. If youâre asking questions of how to do X and someone comes along and is all âwhy do you even want to do X if you could also do Y? Which is something entirely different but also does something vaguely similarâ
Thatâs one if the things.
And then other curiosities. I cannot for example for the life of me get my main monitor to work under Linux with any new Kernel version. My Laptop just refuses to output to it or the second monitor attached via Display port daisychaining. On the older version it works, on the newer itâs broken. I have tried troubleshooting this problem for over half a year and itâs still broken. And thatâs out of the Box on Ubuntu LTSâŠ
So i donât really understand this question. There are major roadblocks. With Wayland which is default for Ubuntu now those roadblock jist became bigger. Screensharing in multiple Apps including slack is outright broken unless you use the shitty webapp. The main player Office 365 largely doesnât work at all on Linux. All these things that should work for a Desktop operating System donât work out of the Box as they should.
Thatâs why people arenât using it and companies arenât preinstalling it.
Linux really isn't ideal for anyone who isn't already a tech enthusiast on some level. I recently did a fresh install of Kubuntu and after about a week, it prompted me that there were updates, so I clicked the notification and ran the updates, after which my BIOS could no longer detect the UEFI partition. I had to use a live usb to chroot into the system and repair it, as well as update grub, in order to fix it.
It's fixable, but this is not something anyone who doesn't already know what they're doing can fix. I've had auto updates in the past put me on boot-loops thanks to nvidia drivers, etc.
This kind of thing needs to almost never happen for linux to be friendly for those who just want their computer to work without any technical understanding. This, honestly though, can't happen because of the nature of distros, you can't ever make guarantees that everything will work because every distro has slightly different packages.
Wine is getting better, but compatibility is still an issue, especially for people who rely really heavily on microsoft office or adobe products.
Itâs actually ideal for people who are actually not tech enthusiasts at all and do not need specific software for their job (Photoshop, audio stuff, actually NOT Ms office)
Everybody I 've seen making this argument is actually a tech enthusiast themselves and just as out of touch with the average user as a Linux âguruâ and massively overestimates the non tech enthusiast user.
They are far more likely to fuck up their Windows PC (even with UAC because they donât understand what it is) than successfullyinstall a new program on their own.
I 've borged my Nvidia drivers a few times, never via the distro auto updating. Custom kernels, trying to get newer cuda versions or something. Still better to fix than AMD drivers on windows and the whole DDU dance.
I'd say it can be, if they're running something incredibly stable that you can guarantee won't break on them... Which involves an amount of research and effort that most people simply won't put in as long as what they are familiar with continues to work. Windows might have it's fair share of issues, but at least a lot of people are already familiar with it, same w/ Mac os.
Nope. Install a distro like Ubuntu and it will not break with auto updates. Nvidia drivers included.
Much less maintenance than when they used windows.
You also overestimate the non tech enthusiast ability to use or fix issues with windows. They usually download the first program that promises to fix their issue, or increase their RAM.
I mean... that's simply incorrect. If you read my original post, I talked about that, exactly. Twice in the last month I've had running updates via the "updates available" notification in Kubuntu break the system, and require chrooting into the system via a live usb to fix it. That's without any changes or messing around with the system, on a very recent install.
When I used normal Ubuntu, there were rampant gnome shell crashes. Hardware compatibility is far from perfect, as well - case in point I've done clean installs of Linux Mint on computers for others in the past, only to find out that there simply aren't working wifi drivers for the device.
Linux CAN be less maintenance, but it's ultimately more work to actually make the jump and completely relearn how to use a computer. I'm fully aware of the capabilities on people who aren't enthusiasts, I do tech support for my whole family all the time. My stepfather's solution to the wifi being slow was to make more networks on the same router, it was hosting like 12 wifi networks at once. However, windows is already familiar to them. They could technically learn to use linux, but they have zero interest because if windows has an issue they'll just call me and I'll fix it (and that's usually not needed because it rarely breaks on them).
Well our experiences differ then. I never had any issues on vanilla Ubuntu systems. After all if there was I 'd have to be on the phone to fix it while also reminding the fam that any non specified click us a left click.
To be fair I rarely had issues with Windows myself, at least post xp. But windows do fail, especially on updates and in quite bizarre ways. I ve had to solve quite a few over the years.
For me itâs always been partly about ease of use, but the biggest thing is a superficial one. I just really enjoy a beautiful UI and slick UX. In these categories Windows is deep in the trash, but the bar for me is MacOS. An OS needs to make what Iâm using it for easier and nicer, not have me spending time just making it work.
I havenât dipped my toe into the distro test pool in a few years, but every time I do I find myself spending more time sorting out the OS than just using it, and weâll, they just havenât been pretty to look at.
I think thatâs what it comes down to, distros can be decently developed but are often severely lacking in the design department.
Iâd definitely love to know if any distros out there for that sort of vibe!
One thing I always talk about is how DE is much more important for new user than a distro. New users will only use GUI anyway so their choice of DE has to be the most comfortable.
Took me years personally to switch to Linux, trying stuff like Ubuntu or PopOS, and I couldnât understand why it doesnât âclickâ for me until I understood that I simply personally dislike Gnome (being an ex Windows user). Tried a KDE distro and it clicked immediately, never looked back. Now I donât even use KDE but it helped me to get through initial frustration period.
Lack of backwards compatibility for older versions of software/games requiring older libs. All I see it lots of pointing back and forwards but it doesnât get solved.
Lack of legacy drivers for graphics cards. I want to run a new distribution on my old hardware, using graphics acceleration and no screen-tearing. Is that too much to ask?
If a program is executed through a wm, have it submit errors to the wm as well so I can see why itâs not running, instead of seeing a loading cursor for 2 seconds and then nothing.
I want to be able to do 99-100% of what I want to do using a GUI. Even installing drivers and changing settings. I donât want to have to change things in a text editor just so I can have a simple shortcut on the desktop. Iâve learned how to do it and I can do it in my dreams now, but that doesnât mean I like doing it.
Keeping the discussion of running Windows applications through Wine/Proton aside; there are a lot of little things which happen to annoy me while I am using my PopOS install for example the most recent one is my headphones donât play any sound from the left year, it works properly on my other devicesâŠ
Iâm willing to make it work, but most general users wouldnât be. This statement continues to be true even after the huge amounts of progress Linux community has made to make a better experience.
Ok, so I have an ASUS Zephyrus M16 with a Core i19 12th Gen and an rtx 3070. I was able to install fedora and able to get it mostly 100% working, but my two biggest issues where I could not play Destiny 2 (because they didnât want to support Linux and actually would ban players who tried), and the switch between egpu and the discrete gpu that you have to reboot for the changes to take effect. Every once in a while the display wouldnât work and I had to reboot multiple times before it would start to work again because of the aforementioned issues with the gpu. All in all I love Linux but I canât spend any time troubleshooting and just need a laptop that just works.
Have you set it up per asus-linux.org? These guys do amazing work to make ASUS laptops feel like first class citizens on Linux in both kernel patches and software. Strongly recommend, only takes a few minutes on Fedora if youâre already installed and up to date. You should be able to get working Optimus and less GPU issues.
Canât help ya with Destiny though, theyâre just jerks.
Speaking from experience, from a long time ago, and from the people/family Iâve installed it for on older machines: Itâs different. Thatâs 90% of it.
The people that had little to no windows/PC experience actually took to Linux a lot easier not having to relearn/change habits from windows.
Correct. Itâs lack of familiarity. Once Linux gets around 10-15% market share, enough people who know the quirks of Linux to help new people who then Linux will be big.
Im not sure the software center being half baked is even the real problem.
One of the nice things about Windows is that you dont need a central, curated, repository for software. You can google the thing you want and just download an msi/exe of the latest stable version and, 99.9% of the time, leading back to your first point, it will just work.
Why do you think its bad? From a secruity standpoint its obviously not great, but its undeniably more convenient than running a curl command to pull in a third party .repo file, yum update and yum install to get something that isnt easily available in my base repos.
Flatpak and AppImage are trying to make that easier, since they both work the same on pretty much any distro, but not everything is packaged that way yet.
Flatpak is closer to the typical package manager model, where you install things from a graphical store or the command line, while AppImages are self-contained binaries that you download from the developer and run as-is without installing.
Snaps also exist, but they donât work well outside of Ubuntu and its descendantsâŠ
I think if they were categories instead of reverse domain names, it would at least be easier to remember. As it is now theyâre mostly just meaningless, and I think it would be better if you could refer to apps with only the last part as long as it wouldnât create a name collision.
Nothing more convenient then a central âapp storeâ. apt search, apt install is all I need. But I undersntd that people donât like it, that donât know it.
Whatâs convenient about googling for software, downloading ominous files and clicking through an install wizard and most likely installing some adware and unwanted search bars? Itâs crazy people see it like that.
Even the other posters in this thread are talking about flatpak and appimage. Iâll never understand that way of thought.
The point Im trying to make is package managers are better suited for developers and the lack of a great alternative for installing software on the distros Iâve used is not helping with the mass appeal of Linux.
I could be wrong here as Iâve never tried any of the âhome computerâ distros (mint, ubuntu).
This. I donât get this complaint some people make. Iâve literally never heard anyone complaining about the existence of app stores on mobile devices.
Thatâs a pretty bad point you made there. Imagine having to google for each app on your smartphone and tell me how thatâs better.
What about the scammy search results that point to malware infected sites?
What about stability and security updates for the software you obtained that way? Every software will have itâs own update mechanism, if thereâs one at all.
How is it not better to install or update all software on the computer with a single click or command?
Yeah, the descriptions and lack of curation is really weird ⊠browse games and oh look hereâs 27 varieties of reversi and a driving game that crashes on launch.
If it were a curated list with enthusiastic and helpful descriptions it would make it more accessible to use. Get the mature and professional looking programs front and center.
Much as I hate to say it, it could do with a makeover from someone with a sense of marketing. (Excuse me for a second, I felt a little nauseous saying that).
Agreed! Very good. If I could do one thing right now, just one thing, I would start a cat rescue non-profit. The trouble is at my present mental and physical health, such an adventure is impossible because I depend on the benefits and economic stability that my employment in state government provides for me. But I can still dream.
I feel you! I volunteered at a cat shelter years ago when I was unemployed, it was one of the best things Iâve done. Sure, you have to deal with stinky litter and cleaning enclosures, but the kitties were so happy to get cuddles and play.
I honestly never minded cleaning litter boxes. I still volunteer two Saturdays a month at mine. There was this one kitten we named Maddie which is sort of after me because my name in real life is Matt. She was my little shadow. She had the most pitifully sad meow that tugs at the heart strings. Anyhow, when I would come she would meow really loudly to sleep in my hoodie hand warming pocket while I cleaned litter boxes and food bowls. She eventually got adopted by a sweet little girl whom I know will cherish her.
On a cool, clear night (typical to Southern California) Warren G travels through his neighborhood, searching for women with whom he might initiate sexual intercourse. He has chosen to engage in this pursuit alone.
Nate Dogg, having just arrived in Long Beach, seeks Warren. Ironically, Nate passes a car full of women who are excited to see him. He insists to the women that there is no cause for excitement.
Warren makes a left at 21st Street and Lewis Ave, where he sees a group of young men enjoying a game of dice together. He parks his car and greets them. He is excited to find people to play with, but to his chagrin, he discovers they intend to relieve him of his material possessions. Once the hopeful thieves reveal their firearms, Warren realizes he is in a considerable predicament.
Meanwhile, Nate passes the women, as they are low on his list of priorities. His primary concern is locating Warren. After curtly casting away the strumpets (whose interest in Nate was such that they crashed their automobile), he serendipitously stumbles upon his friend, Warren G, being held up by the young miscreants.
Warren, unaware that Nate is surreptitiously observing the scene unfold, is in disbelief that heâs being robbed. The perpetrators have taken jewelry and a name brand designer watch from Warren, who is so incredulous that he asks what else the robbers intend to steal. This is most likely a rhetorical question.
Observing these unfortunate proceedings, Nate realizes that he may have to use his firearm to deliver his friend from harm.
The tension crescendos as the robbers point their guns to Warrenâs head. Warren senses the gravity of his situation. He cannot believe the events unfolding could happen in his own neighborhood. As he imagines himself escaping in a surreal fashion, he catches a glimpse of his friend, Nate.
Nate has seventeen cartridges (sixteen residing in the pistolâs magazine, with a solitary round placed in the chamber and ready to be fired) to expend on the group of robbers. Afterward, he generously shares the credit for neutralizing the situation with Warren, though it is clear that Nate did all of the difficult work. Putting congratulations aside, Nate quickly reminds himself that he has committed multiple homicides to save Warren before letting his friend know that there are females nearby if he wishes to fornicate with them.
Warren recalls that it was the promise of copulation that coaxed him away from his previous activities, and is thankful that Nate knows a way to satisfy these urges. Nate quickly finds the women who earlier crashed their car on Nateâs account. He remarks to one that he is fond of her physical appeal. The woman, impressed by Nateâs singing ability, asks that he and Warren allow her and her friends to share transportation. Soon, both friends are driving with automobiles full of women to the East Side Motel, presumably to consummate their flirtation in an orgy.
The third verse is more expository, with Warren and Nate explaining their G Funk musical style. Warren displays his bravado by daring anyone to approach the style. There follows a brief discussion of the genreâs musicological features, with special care taken to point out that in said milieu the rhythm is not in fact the rhythm, as one might assume, but actually the bass. Similarly the bass serves a purpose closer to that which the treble would in more traditional musical forms. Nate displays his bravado by claiming that individuals with equivalent knowledge could not even attempt to approach his level of lyrical mastery. Nate goes on to note that if any third party smokes as he does, they would find themselves in a state of intoxication almost daily (from Nateâs other works, it can be inferred that the substance referenced is marijuana). Nate concludes his delineation of the night by issuing a threat to âbusters,â suggesting that he and Warren will further âregulateâ any potential incidents in the future (presumably by engaging their antagonists with small arms fire).
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