I disagree with the prevailing sentiment here. Meta using ActivityPub is going to help ActivityPub grow an will be good for federated platforms like lemmy, and mastadon.
Lemmy should not block threads.net. Individual users can simply opt out of using threads, but it’s good if we can communicate with people using it and they can communicate with us using a decentralized, free, standard.
I mean maybe, but I can’t help to feel a little like this is optimistic speculation, while I’ve read very well-written arguments for blocking threads.net that seem less (albeit still) speculative. I just don’t want to lose what we have, and if we really want to keep growing then we can do so without Meta.
and if we really want to keep growing then we can do so without Meta.
No we cannot. This website is barely usable. The average person doesn’t want to use lemmy. They want to hear what their favorite musicians and athletes are up to. They want to use a service that has a massive user base so they can learn new things from experts in various niche fields, etc. They don’t want to go to a website with 1000 people who all share the same unpopular political views.
By joining with threads, we make it easier for this average person to switch over to lemmy or mastadon. There is literally no downside to federating with them. They can’t shut down smaller instances.
Embrace, extend, extinguish is the fear. Other companies have done it with other open standards, it’s a fantastic way for corporations to kill decentralized solutions.
Proprietary/centralized ones just get bought out early on before they capture a large market share. Activitypub has 15 million users on it now, and since it’s not a single company that Meta can buy out, they need an alternative approach to destroy it.
What is the threat? Isn’t it good that the fediverse is becoming more mainstream? If thread users can communicate with us, it will be easier for them to join us.
It’s only my personal point of view, but have you ever seen how does a Meta user usually communicates? Can you imagine a moderating an instance where you suddenly get an influx of 3 billion users? None of them will ever create an account outside of the Meta ecosystem, and will only bring problems to most of the other instances, while making any kind of moderation a living hell.
The threat mainly is a corporation looking to assert itself within the fediverse in an attempt to kill it’s growth with eventual incompatibilities. Personally, I don’t have a dog in this fight, but it’s been interesting to watch.
I don’t really think federating with them is doomsday, tbh (though I go back and forth on this one), but that doesn’t affect my primary reason for my nope. Threads consolidates everything I hate about corporate social media–and for that matter, all social media–without a single part I actually liked and made dealing with the other parts worth it. This is not a twitter clone; it’s like someone asked chatGPT to create a social media network based on twitter for other chatGPT bots to talk to each other. For fuck’s sake, it doesn’t think its users should control what they see on their own feed.
I am perfectly willing–even eager–to perform melodramatically about things that annoy me in public for fun and when I’m bored and applaud others doing the same; it’s fun times for all and possibly my favorite thing ever. This is not that.
Threads makes my skin crawl on concept. This is not ‘they do not align with our values’ because come on, Fediverse contains a multitude of values and invents more and i bet if asked, everyone here would list off a different set of values they believe encompass Fediverse and now I’m tempted to see because it would be hilarious. But we can’t even get that far; Threads has no values. This would be a marriage of convenience to a real doll fueled by Facebook’s algorithms and sponsored by Wal-Mart; whether or not it’s a danger to Fediverse shouldn’t even have come up because the first question that should be on anyone’s minds is ‘wait, this is actually a serious question?’ and have been answered ‘lol of course it’s a joke, I just forgot to add the /s’.
I’ve actually just asked that in another post, because I am kind of interested in what people see as Fediverse main idea.
But, thanks for this summary of how Threads looks like, since I’m avoiding it like a plague. You seriously can’t even select what content you see? Fuck, that’s way worse than I though - that’s so obviously a ML model manipulating with people without holding anything back. I hope they’ve at least done something with the misalingment where it seems to just radicalize people to keep them on the platform, because if not, the world is fucked.
Fortunately I have never had instagram and have a policy of never, ever using my wallet name online except as needed (exception: usenet my first year online; I was young and reckless). LinkedIn and Facebook were quite literally because a.) grandparents and other family, b.) my job, and c.) I realized early on that I needed an official web presence under my real name because there would be questions if there wasn’t something out there.
So I made an instagram account then made a threads account, got a friend who had it to follow me, and did a quick dive.
I mean, it’s literally a minimalist twitter real doll; I deactivated to keep my name intact, logged out, and deleted instagram and Threads on the phone in under five minutes and took a shower because I never realized the uncanny valley applied to an app’s aesthetic. It’s just–I mean, no. No no no.
Yeah, exactly. I don’t have Facebook, Instagram, etc. because I hate them as an online experience. I’m here because it’s not that kind of experience. If the fediverse turns into the type of experience meta imposes on its users, I would just have to hope that something else alternative that I like pops up.
Trust me, they’ve taken any knowledge their new ex Twitter employees had about radicalizing people to keep them on the platform and integrated it fully.
Out of curiosity I tried it for a few minutes yesterday. All I saw was a bunch of influencers and low level memes. I had duck duck go tracker blocker on just to see how bad they are and it’s worse than I could ever imagine. It showed 686 tracker attempts from 35 different companies and I was only on for about 10 minutes.
And that’s another issue - if we federate, you won’t even be able to block those trackers, because the Meta instance will just be able to ask the server for those data, if I understood it correctly.
I think defederating from them is a no-brainer for the fediverse, but who am I? Just a user of the fediverse. I do not own an instance. I choose the fediverse over meta and its facebook crap, so for me it’s a no-brainer. For owners of instances, maybe it isn’t such an easy decision. It costs money to run an instance, for example. Federating with the Facebook corporate goons at first will seem useful to some instances, especially the big ones that want to stay big and general. When the big and general ones that fall for Meta’s scheme to take control of things, the smaller instances on the fediverse that chose to defederate will be there to join.
I’ve been thinking on that and assuming fosstodon and lemmy.world both agree to defederate with Threads, I’m going to go ahead and set up regular donations. I only use DW a few times a year, but I renew my premium membership every six months and it’s not cheap. I want to keep supporting it because its model does not include ads at all (premium gives you lots of icons, too, and I used to be a huge icon person, so I can’t say that’s not a consideration). Unless I lose my job or something, I’ll keep paying until death or dw closes whether I ever use it again; it’s worth supporting.
I was already considering it–when i joined mastodon I bought their stickers to show my appreciation–but this is been a wake-up call. If lemmy.world decides to federate, I mean, I’m not going to leave, but I am going to email lemmy.ml about why my application is still pending and use that for my primary.
It’s just the way federations work. I think a lot of people are worried because it’s a new type of social media with a different structure. You don’t have to rely on one place anymore to socialize online, you can pick and choose what you want to connect to. If you don’t like one style, you can pick another style. The thing that worries me is whether or not there different styles will continue to exist or if one entity will monopolize everything. The nice thing is that most modern democratic countries have laws about monopolies and they do in fact work. Several monopolies have been avoided or eliminated in the past.
Agreed. Ruud has done a lot of great things for .world in its short time, but I don’t agree with his decision on this… I do hope he changes his mind.
There’s no need to “give Meta a chance,” they’ve already demonstrated who they are time and again. And I don’t want to end up having to leave .world in the future because the traditional Fediverse split in two, and .world is on the wrong side of it.
Most companies aren’t going to develop the same app for different platforms using their native languages. We already saw where that leads; an entire library of apps that are windows only, because that’s all they have the bandwidth for.
Am I the only one a bit confused as to what Threads has to do with Lemmy, beyond them both using ActivityPub…? Like, these are completely different kinds of websites, Lemmy is a Reddit clone and Threads is a Twitter clone. What purpose would federation serve?
Because they use ActivityPub, both of them can potentially interact with each other (post, viewing, following, liking, boosting, etc). There’s no way to stop Threads from being able to interact fully with Lemmy if it’s something Meta wanted to implement. Mastodon can already interact with Lemmy directly by following communities, posting to communities, and interact with posts/comments. Lemmy doesn’t go the other way though because it isn’t implemented, but it could be.
Any ActivityPub software/platform/website can interact with any other ActivityPub software/platform/website if it so wants to, because the backend of things like posts/comments/communities/etc are the same across every single platform if they choose to implement them, the difference between the ActivityPub platforms is how they choose to show you information and how you interact with it.
Technically, communities/magazines aren’t an activitypub thing. The way it’s implemented, Mastodon (for example) sees a community as just another user.
A post in that community looks like a “toot” from the community user. Comments in that thread look like replies to the toot.
They are actually, communities are ActivityPub groups, the issue is that Mastodon does not implement groups (but it is soon!), so what the Lemmy group has to do is boost all the posts/comments so that people can see them in Mastodon.
Once Mastodon gets groups though, the experience should be much better.
For a non-tech answer, it’s basically the “language” used between these websites to make them talk to each other.
If a website uses ActivityPub, it can fetch information (and send information) to other sites that are using ActivityPub in a specific way that’s designed for social media.
Another example of this would be SMTP (simple mail transfer protocol) which is what e-mail uses so that different e-mail servers (outlook, yahoo, gmail, etc) can all talk to each other seamlessly.
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