They’ve been in NATO since back when the US would lock you up for being gay too. Hell, Texas only removed the law banning same sex relations in 2003. And it took a supreme Court ruling to do it. Sodomy was still a crime in the US army until 2014.
What a bizarre comment. Mentioning that other countries have or still suffers from homophobia takes nothing away from this current story about homophobia in Turkey.
Together with Greece, they were the first country to join after the 12 founding members - years before Germany and decades before Spain and the other half of the current NATO members.
With big military and startegic position they are one of the most important countries for the alliance. Therefore they also have the cabability to start a circus like they did with Finland and especially with Sweden.
Well it does and it doesn’t. Turkey’s trajectory was very different when it joined the alliance. It was one of the most democracy leaning Muslim countries. Also, having a common adversary (Russia) also helped to make them a member.
Unironically this is probably the case - feminine ones are excluded from military service for example (show proof to the doctor to escape service), whereas others are allowed.
Yes. There was a time when I. as a young man, wanted to at least visit the good ole US and A. Back then I didn’t have the money. Now when I probably could afford it, I don’t have the desire anymore.
There’s still places worth visiting. Major cities like New York, San Francisco, Seattle, Chicago, even Atlanta is largely insulated from the rest of Georgia’s nutjob influence.
If you’d rather be outdoors, the U.S. has some spectacular parks and wild spaces. Yosemite, the Grand Canyon, Yellowstone, Arches, the Everglades, damn near anywhere in Alaska and Hawai’i…
Yes, all of them. I will never understand people targeting just Islam for shit like this while literally all abrahamic faiths have the same shit said in different ways in their holy books.
I will never understand people targeting just Islam for shit like this while literally all abrahamic faiths have the same shit said in different ways in their holy books.
Context was removed, so sorry if I got you wrong.
You are right about the books. In practice, however, there are differences. A few countries punish homosexuality with the death penalty, and all of them are Islamic (though the precise historic reasons can vary, I assume, and religion may or may not play a prominent role in that).
Maybe the age difference makes a difference in practice. When we remember how Christianity was practiced 600 years ago …
There was a lot less difference in liberties in majority Islamic countries and the majority Christian countries until the 60s’ and 70s’ when Islamic fundamentalist theocracies got enough popular support to gain power. It is a very complex phenomenon that is largely linked to colonialism and especially de-colonization.
Based purely on books Islam is actually the most advanced of the religious texts. It for example actually grants rights for women that are not found in other Abrahamic religions. Do they actually happen as Quaran and hadiths say? No, they largely don’t. But there is a high level of differences between different Islamic countries and that are not explainable by sects they believe in. For hijab (as clothing) Afghanistan and Turkey are very different from burqa to hijab (headscarf) having been banned for decades.
Current people in power in Islamic countries aren’t there necessarily because of current popular support. Trying to unravel Gordian’s knot of Islam, dictatorship, culture, fundamentalism, colonialism and decolonization is as the name tells pretty impossible., For example, FGM is seen as Islamic practice and while not haram it is not Islamic but cultural one that seems to have at least one center in Kurdisrtan. Only thing prophet Mohammed said about it is that if you have to cut don’t cut so severely. Which by Islamic jurisprudence makes only the cutting severely not practice itself haram. One of the Islamic principles is that if it isn’t explicitly banned it is allowed. Honor violence is a thing. Part of it is largely cultural and how the majority of Islamic countries are honour based societies.
Of course Islam and especially Muslims have a huge amount of issues with social liberties and human rights. But even worst of it, Islamic terrorism, has been a minority in both casualties and attacks in Western countries. In the US in past 50 years majority of attacks have been linked to alt-right and Christian fundamentalism. The majority of attacks by Islamic terrorist organizations happen in Islamic countries which tells us that either governments or inhabitants are not fundamentalist enough for those groups. The rise of the two biggest of past couple of decades, Al Qaida and ISIS/DAESH can be followed to the actions of Western countries. Former because of armament and training because of Cold War and the latter to the power vacuum left by the Iraq war.
Current issues in Turkey are a lot less Islam related than to things like having autocrat and a culture with ultra nationalistic. For example how Ataturk is seen as something that is closing what is haram. Turkey is following especially civil society and oppositional politicians to close degree. The space for advancement in social liberties and human rights is very narrow and they have no issue deporting, jailing or vanishing people (usually just jailing them in black sites). But that does not differ from Russia for example. Erdogan also has no qualms of for example fucking up the economy even more to gain votes. There are different rules for different types of people. If anyone can skirt the rule of law they will. Tax evasion is more assumed than something notable. But one thing I had no issues with was Islam itself. While as foreigner albeit woman I had more leeway but I did not need it. The biggest culture shocks were not Islam but living under autocrat, my and my organizations actions being followed constantly, wide corruption and the absolutely mind boggling one was getting used to people not caring that things are not functional. Currently, the majority of my Turkish friends who have a way out are leaving. Erdogan’s economic decisions for winning elections are already increasing inflation that already was entirely out of hand. You literally had no idea what things would cost tomorrow even before elections. The last earthquake in Turkey destroyed a lot of land that was farmland and with war in Ukraine already causing famine forecast is not great.
Yeah! Fuck white people! A ton of them are super homophobic! That group is so racist too! Fuck those homophobes! They don’t deserve any respect at all, you’re super correct!
lol. Edit: Fighting homophobia with racism is typical liberal white people bullshit. Fuck your shitty culture and complete lack of self-awareness, you humourless numpty.
The idea all Muslims are homophobic is a dumb generalization. Call it a stigma. Corrupt police exist in Turkey, and not all of them are Muslim. The idea you’re giving that Turkish police have to be Muslim is as racist as their actions were homophobic.
Please don’t be hypocritical. I’m sure anti-theists have some level of respect for religious people.
The law is the issue, I agree. Not religion as much. People are still given the right to a fair trial. The issue arises when police think they can do random stuff without any reason other than vague and pathetic understandings of the law.
Search lgbtq mosque on google you lazy twat. Also I think the fact you don’t see muslims doing this that and the other says more about you than muslims. The blind prejudice in these comments makes you seem like idiots.
Have you searched it? There are only a handful IN THE WORLD, and they are constantly being vandalized by other Islamic people, at least the one in berlin
Ah, so the day you see mosques hanging lgbt flags isn’t the day you respect blah blah blah. Stop kidding yourself, face your own prejudice before you start spewing your hate. I fucking hate religion with a passion, but you know what I hate more? Racist and nationalist idiots who are blind to their own prejudice. Homophobia is as much a cancer to the world as is your shitty prejudiced world view. Don’t use other people’s prejudice to exercise your own. Fuck your hate.
Ok. Meanwhile we are discussing this on thread about a tourist that was assaulted and jailed by turkey men. Exactly the same as other attacks towards LGBTQ+ that have happened in all europe by Islamic/muslisms/middle eastern men. Exactly the same as I have been assaulted by these people in germany.
Now how many Islamic people have been attacked by members of the LGBTQ+ community? I will be waiting for your answer.
@Everyone else: Dont let these people guilty you into not wanting these homophobic people around you. Im glad to receive and accept islam, once they have purged homophobia from their roots. Unfortunately that’s not it today, and the attacks towards LGBTQ are not stopping and will keep increasing as long as we let them. Cities in Europe that were once safe spaces are not full with these homophobic people. Just some months ago, a group of Islamic attacked a trans person and he ended up in the hospital. This year and last year while I was walking towards the pride demonstration I was screamed homophobic slurs from a moving car in an area that is filled with these homophobic people. I am happy to accept islam, I will never accept homophobic islam, period.
I’m sorry on behalf of those shitty Muslims for what they did to you. Hate towards any group in any form is haram. I don’t know what they were thinking when they thought acting like that was ok.
As for where you’re asking where Muslims have been attacked by people of the LGBT+ community, I can’t observe a physical event at the time of writing, as I don’t have the time to research this. However, I have seen plenty of verbal abuse across the internet by irrational members of the LGBT+ community towards many Muslims.
To generalise the entire community based off of these morons would be hypocritical of me when I ask you to please not generalise Muslims as people due to the actions of the few with extremist opinions.
Homophobes and racists should not exist, prejudice is cultural and a lot of the time revolves around socio-economic reality. Even in the richest western countries homophobia is still a problem, and not just in the minority communities that are fucked 6 ways to Sunday for the most part anyway. Creating boogeymen is what cultures do, and just as religious people create gay boogeymen; in the west, white people create non-white boogeymen.
As I said, i dont respect anyone that is attacking members of the LGBTQ+ community. You said it’s the same? No, we are not attacking, we are asking for respect. As long as you are not giving it, then we are not accepting you.
You must then be ignorant of the weaponised LGBT identity politics that is sometimes used to justify the invasion and murder of Muslim lives in the Middle East by white countries, as well as the fascist shift in Europe against Muslim immigrants.
LGBT people often participate in the rhetoric and are used as a stick for punitive policies in Europe.
Does this mean by extension all LGBT people are responsible for these crimes?
Mosques will never hoist a rainbow flag. It’s a core belief in Islam that homosexuality is wrong. But such a belief should never be used to justify homophobia.
homophobia /ˌhɒməˈfəʊbɪə,ˌhəʊməˈfəʊbɪə/ noun dislike of or prejudice against gay people
I’m not homophobic. Just not entirely accepting the idea of homosexuality. Doesn’t mean I get the right to attack people of the LGBT+ community.
Islamic countries give every person, regardless of their involvement in the LGBT community, the right to a fair trial. Corrupt police shouldn’t be the face of such law systems.
Islam is HATING on LGBT community. They dont want us among them.
LGBT is not hating on Islam. I want to live together with Islamics, but I dont want to live together with homophobic people.
You are not accepting the “idea” of homosexuality. Im accepting Islam, but Im not accepting that you dont accept the “idea” of homosexuality. BECAUSE, a society doesn’t work with people not accepting each other.
Im sorry, but you have to accept that your ideals are antique and old fashioned, I dont care what your religion says, human evolves, our minds evolves, a man being together with another man is not damaging anyone.
Im not going to accept that you dont accept the idea of homosexuality, and im going to keep fighting to keep Islam outside Europe as much as I can. Once Islam changes their ideals about homosexuality, they are more than welcome
I wouldn’t be so hasty. The middle east, including Turkey, are some of the most culturally rich places to visit. In general, the Arab people are extremely hospitable. There has been civilization in the area for thousands of years and many fascinating antiquities remain. Turkey in particular has a longstanding secular tradition that was started a hundred years ago by Kemal Ataturk, only recently eroded by the religious conservatives. I wouldn’t let a few thuggish people put you off.
I’d agree, but given that those few thuggish people in the Middle East seem to be setting policy that includes beating people for looking gay all the way up to beheadings, it might be beast to avoid it for now.
I don’t think it makes sense to go anywhere completely whimsically. Times change and caution is prudent. Nobody is taking the silk road through Afghanistan any more but it was once a popular route, for example. However, I believe in the goodness of people. Most people just wanna be happy, kindness and respect goes a long way.
True, most people are willing to live and let live, but a lot of places have people where you won’t know what you’re dealing with until its too late. And I’m not even talking about the middle east specifically.
Is that web reliable? Can people go 20 days without sleeping? Simple Google search says record is 11 days. And he worries about detainees? Not gays? And yeah, the web description is “unbiased, well researched, independent news.” You know they are bad when they do those kind of claims. Just criticizing the website, not the story. Commenting because that’s how I’m doing my part. ><
*He was detained for participating in an “eventful” Pride march.
*On the bus, some “Chechens” said he “looked like a gay."
According to him.
Berlin-based ArtıGerçek (the original, Turkish-language version of GercekNews) is a sensational-yet-prominent left-liberal Turkish-language newsletter. “GercekNews” is much more fresh and novice, uses an outdated UI of artigercek.com
While gay sex was never illegal there there’s a couple of “public indecency” type laws which allow police to harass folks. Regarding public sentiment: If tomorrow you had a referendum whether civil unions should be introduced it would not be unlikely to pass, pro-marriage and pro-union are almost 50% with 30% undecided. And don’t think that protesters for other stuff are treated more kindly.
Comparing the situation in Turkey to that in other Muslim countries, as done in the icky portions of the post replies, (except say Albania), is dishonest and misleading as fuck: Most problems arise not really because Turkey is a homophobic shithole, much less a particularly homophobic one, but because it’s a shithole. Go ahead, try to outlaw alcohol in Turkey and you’ll see how much arguing with the Quran is accepted there.
Bonus song (enable subtitles). Oh and someone has to explain to Turkish machos that bullying bottoms is totally gay.
I wouldn’t say Turkey is a “shithole” — whatever that means. Turkey is in a serious culture war. Besides being ruled by an Islamic populist autocrat, and for that reason, it is one of the most “Islamophobic” countries in the world.
About 10 percent of the adult population and 30 percent of the gen-Zers are non-theistic. Most of them are anti-theistic, anti-Islamic, Stalinian atheists, who would completely agree with you on Turkey being a shithole, and want a “battle-ready” “democracy” in a cruel “battle” with Islam and Muslims.
While the trans surgeries is not affirmed by medicare and there is real stigma around it, trans people have every legal right, including official name and sex —yes, sex— change. And like Erdogan says, “the opposition is gay.” They’re for LGBT rights.
And, except alien ghettos and other no-go zones, it is not a “shithole” in the means of culture, security, safety, crime rates, and legal issues aren’t about the “overlords.”
So, it’s a mixed bag. It is a terrible country economically, equalitically etc. But not completely unsalvagable. Turkey definitely can be “OK, fine” again.
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“If tomorrow you had a referendum whether civil unions should be introduced it would not be unlikely to pass, pro-marriage and pro-union are almost 50% with 30% undecided.”
This is not terrible. Check out how Ireland legalized gay marriage.
Why would anyone straight have a problem with anyone being gay? Are they all in the closet and think that what they feel is what everyone feels, and somehow the fault of gay people?
Well, to be “fair,” a significant portion of homophobes believe an invisible man in the sky said it was bad, according to some guys who knew some guys who knew a guy that died several hundred years before they wrote that into their “things the invisible man in the sky said” collection of fan fiction.
I think a mix of religion and being brought up with old-school morality. I’m a conservative who has no problems with homosexuals, in fact HIV/AIDS is one of the causes I really get behind because the history of it fascinates me (currently reading And The Band Played On, it’s great).
Whenever I see homophobia or erroneous beliefs about them I try and correct them when I can.
I didn’t get it until I started getting serious about weight loss (doing well btw :)) you develop a raw anger at people eating food that you can’t enjoy. Of course I don’t say anything. It’s like that expression
If you are a liberal vegetarian you do not eat meat
If you are a conservative vegetarian no one gets to eat meat except for you.
You know, for one reason or another I won't bother you with I'm still in the WhatsApp group of my childhood friends.
They're a bunch of dicks, and tbh were I to meet them today I'd avoid them like the plague, but a couple of people in there are actual friends, so I stick around.
Anyway, the humour in the chat is that of many WhatsApp groups, jokes about women, sex and so on.
Boomers humour, so to speak, even though we're all X-Gen.
Sadly, 80% are jokes about gays, which can get fairly nasty at times.
A couple of weeks ago I actually said "hey, how come you guys always joke about gays and trans? Like, all the time? You know who does that? Closeted homosexuals".
Then I linked a few articles of random gay-bashing Republicans who were caught fiddling kids and were forced to admitting being gay.
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