It’s quite strange, I’ve been downloading torrents for more years than I can count, and I upload them from time to time, and I’ve always had the worry myself of how to name torrents: with dots? underscores? dashes? (although with spaces is definitely not an option).
I’ve even asked the questions on several forums and upload sites, read tutorials on these same sites etc and every time I’ve asked the answer has been: THERE IS NO STANDARD, even on the tutorials, I’ve never seen anything mentioned such a thing.
All this to say that I’m making a meme, and after so many years, this is the first time I’ve heard of a Warez scene, and several times in the same comments!, curious, isn’t it? I wish I’d heard about it before.
The problem is really that space is an argument separator, so to safely handle filenames with spaces you need to handle them special, either by escaping them, quoting the entire thing. This means that the filename with spaces can’t be just copy pasted wherever you want, you have handle them special. It adds complications that are resolved by just using a separator that isnt used for other things, like underscore, or dash. Dot I also don’t like as much as it’s used as a separator for extensions, but that’s a far easier problem to handle by just ignoring all but the last dot, leaving only one really bad edge case (a file that does not have an extension, that uses dot separator in its filename having the filesystem imply a wrong extension.
I’m with the person you’re replying to, what’s an example? I haven’t had a problem working with filenames with spaces in at least ten years on windows, Linux or Mac…
It’s also really good practice to account for weird characters in programs and shell scripts you write because then you don’t have injection vulnerabilities or unicode problems.
Seriously, what’s an example of spaces in filenames causing a problem?
Will error for example. It works fine for filenames without space, but if the filename has space in it, it will be interpreted wrong. But if your testing batch doesn’t have spaces in the filename, you won’t see the issue until it’s used on a file that does. Note ‘cat’ is a placeholder, any function/script that can be used on a file here will have the same issue.
Something similar to that caught me last week while I was unzipping multiple mods in bulk for a game.
The point I guess I was getting at was that even having “come up” with Slackware and a whole os that’s just 69 half baked scripts in a trenchcoat I adopted a more universal mindset and specific skill set when using scripts over ten years ago and find it hard to justify expecting sanitary inputs nowadays when it is harder and harder with Unicode and is a serious security threat to treat variables as passable strings.
I wasn’t trying to suggest that there isn’t a way to make a space in a filename cause an error, but that I can’t think of an example where allowing a space to affect things was a good or right way to do something.
In the specific example of the op, no spaces is a scene rule from the days of ftp and irc/usenet. The idea behind having only a subset of the ascii character set was to allow those services to work with the files and commands around them. There’s no reason to treat my own scripts and programs as if they’ll never encounter the galaxy of other characters that are flying around now and to be honest, theres no reason not to work in sane handling of non ascii characters in filenames even for code I only expect to touch scene stuff.
It used to be an unavoidable mistake when we dug up buried utilities. Now that there’s a number to call first it’s only the fault of the knucklehead with the shovel.
Please don’t read this as some kind of an argument. I think we basically agree and I’m not trying to get one over on you.
To be fair, I didn’t really focus on the biggest annoyance I’ve had with spaces in the file name: going between terminals and the GUI, most filenames you can copy and paste with wild abandon, but filenames with spaces always require special care, sometimes stripping the auto completed escaped space from file names from the terminal, or quoting or escaping the space when taking one from the GUI.
That can be a struggle. There used to be a context menu option in maybe xterm or the kde terminal emulator that would copy the wd and maybe even the highlighted file but I might be gpt hallucinating that last one.
After fucking up bad copying from the internet into a terminal about fifteen years ago I have tried to review and understand what’s happening when copying from or to the terminal even in part. It would be bad for me if there weren’t the possibility of (at best) having shit not work when I use middle click with abandon.
I been thinking a lot about designing technology to discourage people from using it. For example it’s a serious mistake when wearable displays are made to look like wayfarers. The danger of people accepting them socially to the point of being manipulated into a state of flow, dissociating from their reality through a combination of sight and sound augmented reality, is too high. Good design of wearable displays should prioritize function over form 100% and make the user look like an insane freak that no one wants to be around, forcing people to remove them in order to maintain social interactions.
I think copying to and from the terminal is like that. When going between an interface which is a very high level mediator of interaction with the machine and one that’s a very low level mediator, we should be alert, on guard and proofreading everything twice. It’s good that we have to check ourselves before we wreck ourselves copying and pasting into the terminal.
That’s a problem with the shell though, not the filesystem. It doesn’t matter which files filesystem you’re using; most interactive shells use spaces as token separators and therefore spaces in filenames need to be enclosed in quotes or escaped.
Everytime smb. says “you can Google it” I think about googling it and expect some weird niche article from some esoteric sites. But then I think, why didn’t you Google it and posted an link? Why should I try to find a trustworthy source for your claim?
You’re willingly confirming something you rate as sensitive, trying to bring more credibility to it by being an extra shout and referencing a virtually unverifiable needle in a haystack ‘authority’ as Google, but find the sensitivity a reason for not sharing your information.
The chart is all technically true. Finland was united in a crown union with the Russian crown, when the tsar abdicated, the decision was made for the Finnish parliament to take up sovereignty in his abscence. Thus, in a sense, you could say that Finland maintained the claims of the Russian crown in that the same instrument of government was continued and responsible for the transition to a republican and independent Finnish government, while the Russians overthrew the old regime entirely and replaced it with the shiny new Soviet system.
No one takes it seriously though, it's really just a kind of historical joke, and as the chart alludes to, there are more claimants to the Roman Empire than residents of the city.
But all in all, it’s a ship-of-Theseus situation. Is something the Roman Empire if it doesn’t contain Rome, consists of land that was never occupied by Romans, uses a language that wasn’t spoken in the Roman Empire, doesn’t have any societal or political connections to the Roman Empire, doesn’t call itself the Roman Empire and ultimately is no empire?
In the case of Russia and then Finland it’s a case of “I once touched someone who touched someone who touched someone who touched the Queen, so I am now the Queen.”
And calling the Western Roman Empire illegitimate (even though it contained Rome) and then the Ottomans too, but calling the Russian Empire (which never had anything to do with the Roman Empire) legitimate is more than questionable.
All in all, a fun little meme, but no factual basis to back it up.
And calling the Western Roman Empire illegitimate (even though it contained Rome) and then the Ottomans too, but calling the Russian Empire (which never had anything to do with the Roman Empire) legitimate is more than questionable.
I mean, obviously it's a joke chart so it stretches interpretations to get the conclusion/punchline, but it might mean 'illegitimate' because, as it notes, the West was 'reunited' (extremely temporarily) with the Eastern Roman Empire, and the ERE always claimed to be the 'one' true legitimate Roman Empire.
Nothing wrong with a joke chart, and as such it isn’t bad at all.
I was just answering to the commenter before me who asked how true the chart is. And if you want to know whether the chart is factually correct that Finland is the (heir of) the Roman Empire, then the answer has to be no.
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