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hassanmckusick

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hassanmckusick ,

Remember when we almost had peace in '94 and then a Zionist fucked it all up?

hassanmckusick , (edited )

Found it: maps.app.goo.gl/HVGPAaCMFHJQsxEg9

Google says it’s a research institute but there are photos of kids on horseback?

Why target a lone school when theres like 15 more in a dense area 6 miles to the north east? Maybe too hard to get too?

Edit: might be a middle school? sites.google.com/a/sulam.co.il/daat_herum/home

Edit: or a high school of 100

hassanmckusick ,

Copied from myself elsewhere:

In 94 we (royal) almost had peace. In '93 The Oslo accords promised Palestinians self governance in 5 years. Israel under Rabin and Abbas with the PLO had an agreement for Palestine to be run by the PA in the mean time and work towards peace.

Rabin along with either Abbas or Arafat (can’t remember) even pulled Israeli troops out of occupied Palestine and gave land back as part of the peace agreement, marking the most significant step towards peace we will see.

But then Rabin was assassinated in 95 by a zionist. Israel turns over to Netanyahu. Netanyahu refuses to meet with Arafat.

Oslo II fell apart as the US refused to recognize Hamas (who had popular support), preferring the secular Fatah (PA). Whats the point in holding an election if it wont be recognized anyways? Hamas doesn’t enter the '96 race.

At some point Netanyahu starts funding Hamas knowing that he can also pit Hamas against the Fatah. Netanyahu will fund Hamas on multiple occasions throughout the 90’s and 2000’s.

In '97 the US declares Hamas a terrorist group, ending any chance of an election that satisfies the people.

Hamas wins the '06 election

hassanmckusick ,

Yeah there might be more to it but I’m pretty sure that assassination fucked up peace for the last 20 years.

Here’s one of the sources I used to come to my conclusion, it can give a more detailed explanation of the breakdown www.britannica.com/topic/Oslo-Accords#ref360514

hassanmckusick ,

Warning: serious armchair science going on in my comment here

Probably easy target

I’m guessing this is most of it. Looks like a ~7 minute drive from the border. Actually, to avoid the radar marked on the map they probably came in exactly where I put that purple arrow.

sends a chilling message

Actually I’m saying kinda the opposite. There’s 4 schools 7 minutes south, coulda sent a bigger message.

I’m piecing this together as we go. Ok so I checked the distance from Sa’ad to Sderot (30 minutes by car) and while doing so I noticed something.

There was a key on the map I didn’t understand “kibbutz portal”. Well if you were planning on driving from Sa’ad to Sderot the “kibbutz portal” is the road google maps tells you to start at.

So they probably started here, attacked Sa’ad and then took the “kibbutz portal” to Sderot

Edit: Theres 3 directions out, the purple arrow (25), 232 and the “kibbutz portal”. It looks like starting from the purple arrow would allow Hamas to push that town in the direction of the “kibbutz portal”. I’m not convinced 25 is open but I’m basing that 100% on the fact that google maps wont let me force the directions to take that road by dropping a pin

hassanmckusick ,

When you paint yourself into a corner like that your only options are to DIY or try to sweep it under the rug

hassanmckusick ,

I appreciate the clarification. I posted the same comment in another thread and got some good feedback there too.

I think “terrorist” is a loaded word and I wanted to understand the context because I’m very familiar with the US’s history of using the word “terrorist” as a cudgel.

And our history of inserting ourselves, refusing to work with the local democratically elected government, setting up our own candidate in the race and… uh sometimes assassinating the opposition if it looks like the plant isn’t going to win. (see Jacobo Arbenz, Mohammad Mosaddeq, Salvador Allende, if you want more listen to “same thing” by Flobots but make sure to verify things after)

But my goal isn’t to say Hamas good Israel bad (although I very much laid it all on Netanyahu). My goal was to see if I could absolve Hamas of the “terrorist” label from the US. Without that label it’s a lot easier to see the true story of Palestine.

But in the interest of staying focused on how this is a problem with Netanyahu and not the Israeli people I wanna say there were several peace talks brought to my attention (several or most involving Bibi) in the other thread that I still need to dig into. And I do intend to keep reading so I can speak more accurately on the topic.

hassanmckusick ,

If I moved into your house without permission and told you I’ll bomb the shit out of you if you look at me funny you wouldn’t accept it right away either.

hassanmckusick ,

In spite of your bad faith arguments in this thread I do intend to look into this list.

hassanmckusick ,

Hope you understand

Absolutely I do. And I hope you forgive me if I’ve said anything too ignorant.

I really am doing my best to inform myself. As soon as I saw your comment I skimmed a few articles about the events you listed and I could tell you put effort into it.

Honestly, this interaction renewed my faith in humanity a little. I’m going to try to put more effort in to make sure I’m not blaming anyone I shouldn’t while defending my “side”. Thanks :)

hassanmckusick ,

Nope, you can’t.

Maybe I’m explaining myself poorly, maybe you disagree. To clarify to anyone still reading I am not trying to absolve anyone of murder. Hamas did commit terrorism as defined in the dictionary.

But should the US be the entity in charge of making that distinction? Has the US ever used that designation inappropriately?

As an American I think Americans are particularly brainwashed about the term after the War on Terror and tying the word so heavily to racism. Terrorists are monsters but that rhetoric allowed us to dehumanize anyone accused of being a terrorist to horrific levels.

It is my belief that many of us realize we were manipulated by the rhetoric of War on Terror but find it a lot harder to look back before the War on Terror with the same clarity.

France mobilises 7,000 troops and goes on high alert after school stabbings and mosque knife arrest (www.euronews.com)

France is mobilising 7,000 soldiers and increasing its alert status to “emergency attack” level after the death of a teacher in the northeast town of Arras, stabbed to death Friday by a former student with a record of Islamic radicalisation....

hassanmckusick ,

Which country has the most school shootings?

hassanmckusick ,

45 this year?

hassanmckusick ,

What sort of reply is that to what he said?

An honest one. There’s violence everywhere. At least Palestinians and Israelis are fighting each other over land. In America you get shot over a cheeseburger or because someone else can’t get laid.

When someone calls the USA out on their school shootings, do you then bring up Ukraine with many more dead?

No, I say “yeah it’s unacceptable.”

hassanmckusick ,

As of 2021, 35 states have passed bills and executive orders designed to discourage boycotts of Israel. Many of them have been passed with broad bipartisan support. Most anti-BDS laws have taken one of two forms: contract-focused laws requiring government contractors to promise that they are not boycotting Israel; and investment-focused laws, mandating public investment funds to avoid entities boycotting Israel.

hassanmckusick , (edited )

Translation:

The safe way to move civilians south

Street name 1

Street name 2

Yellow line: Safe route

Dotted lines: Gaza Border

Source: Google translate app

hassanmckusick ,

I’m dumb.

Important statement for residents of Gaza City In recent days, we have appealed to you to leave Gaza City to the south of Wadi Gaza in order to preserve your safety. I would like to inform you that the IDF will allow movement on the indicated streets without any harm between the hours of 10:00 - 16:00. For your safety, take advantage of the short time to move towards the south - from Beit Hanoun to Khan Yunis. If you care about yourself and your loved ones, go south as instructed. Rest assured that Hamas leaders have taken care of themselves and are taking cover from strikes in the region. Residents of Al-Shati, Al-Rimal and West Al-Zaytoun will also be allowed to move on Daldul and Al-Sanaa Streets towards my street By At Saladin and the sea

Same method, google translate app

Edit: Feel free to copy this OP

hassanmckusick ,

It is also an objective fact that only about 1/3 of Palestinian households own a car so for the average able bodied Palestinian it will be a ~4.5 hour walk assuming no traffic

hassanmckusick ,

Prob this: msnbc.com/…/70-killed-after-convoys-of-evacuees-i…

hassanmckusick ,

The IDF cannot drive people around, it’s not their territory.

Too bad Israel keeps killing amnesty workers or I bet they would volunteer: reuters.com/…/nine-staffers-working-with-un-pales…

hassanmckusick ,

Too many words, don’t care, didn’t read. Don’t kill amnesty workers and journalists. No excuses.

hassanmckusick ,

In the hearts of the people I have loved and the nightmares of those who have crossed me. /s

Why?

hassanmckusick ,

Whataboutism.

Counterpoint.

My country funds and provides the weapons used for these war crimes. Protesting is about all I can to stop the US from killing more journalists and amnesty workers.

hassanmckusick ,

Also, don’t lecture me about debate ethics when you refuse to read any of my arguments.

I didn’t read it because it was garbage. More words != better argument

Edit: wait, when did I “lecture you about debate ethics”? I called out a logical fallacy I didn’t lecture you. Would you like me to show you the difference?

hassanmckusick ,

How can you know it was garbage if you didn’t read it?

Fine I read it. You didn’t make any valid arguments you just said “yeah but they give a warning”. Still doesn’t excuse killing amnesty workers. Now go away.

hassanmckusick ,

It’s not a double standard if I also say it’s bad when my country does it.

But by any actual metric you know Israel kills way more children than Palestine. 36x more to be exact (between 2008-2020 cuz those are the numbers I could find)

hassanmckusick ,

no

The word Palestine derives from Philistia, the name given by Greek writers to the land of the Philistines, who in the 12th century BCE occupied a small pocket of land on the southern coast, between modern Tel Aviv–Yafo and Gaza. The name was revived by the Romans in the 2nd century CE in “Syria Palaestina,” designating the southern portion of the province of Syria, and made its way thence into Arabic, where it has been used to describe the region at least since the early Islamic era.

www.britannica.com/place/Palestine

hassanmckusick ,

It feels like splitting hairs to comment that there was no Palestine pre 1900 because it had a different name. Especially when it was referred to as Palestine by Arabs for like 2000 years, it just wasn’t officially a state.

Actually it sounds like a selective retelling of history designed to imply no one had any right to it or feelings of nationalism around it prior to WWII

hassanmckusick ,

Or just accept that we have two (or more, really) groups of people that have historical and cultural import around the same region?

To be honest I don’t care about anyones special fucking book. Tracing backwards the land belongs to:

The Palestinian peoples: 1940’s-now

The Ottoman Empire: 1500’s-1900’s

The Christians: 11th century

?: 11c - 63bc

Romans: 63bc

Jewish peoples: 63bc-931bc

So by this whole “history culture” logic I have more of a right to Israel having been raised culturally Christian than the Jewish peoples.

But that’s dumb. I’m gonna arbitrarily draw the line 100 years ago and say anyone after that can fuck off. If you have to go further back than great-great-great grandparents then you don’t have a claim to it.

Israel-Palestine megathread for the remainder of the weekend

the front page is now like half articles on this currently, so it’s probably time for a megathread because none of us want to keep track of 12 threads on this subject and all the resulting comments. only major subsequent developments (for example, boots on the ground; pronunciations by governments; that sort of stuff) will get...

hassanmckusick ,

https://lemmy.discothe.quest/pictrs/image/f23de24b-39b9-4e05-95e5-4b6455d41eb5.png

It can’t be fake because I literally did it (tall man, hat, theater)

hassanmckusick ,

I have heard rumblings of people who believe that Hamas did not even attack and this was a false flag.

Prob propaganda but it def makes you think. I mean Israel did know about the attack ahead of time supposedly. How did Hamas get through the iron dome? Did anyone see where they went after? How did that girl get from the back of a Hamas truck to a hospital? Why haven’t I seen many photos videos from the ground?

This bad faith “evidence” just fuels the conspiracy.

hassanmckusick ,

I just wanna chime in and say I don’t believe it either.

It’s just the only reason that I could think of that someone is out here posting “proof” of the orders.

At some point I’m sure we’ll see a blurred video of murder and then someone pointing at the people on the screen and being like “we know that guy, that’s Hamas s Samah, he lives at 123 Westy B. He is a Hamas and this is him murdering. Here’s the body of the victim later at the morgue.”

Thats the kind of evidence I “want” (I don’t want a video of murder but like, identifying people in the video and find out who they are and like… hard evidence)

But the “evidence” I was responding to is something I could forge from half a world away

hassanmckusick ,

The IDF said that just like they said there were a bunch of decapitated babies before they walked that lie back

hassanmckusick ,

White phosphorus munitions can legally be used on battlefields to make smoke screens, generate illumination, mark targets or burn bunkers and buildings. Because it has legal uses, white phosphorus is not banned as a chemical weapon under international conventions, but it can cause serious burns and start fires.

You just can’t use it to hit people (I don’t think you’re allowed set buildings on fire to kill people either)

hassanmckusick ,

I know we’re all fighting but I think this guy has a point.

I’m pretty sure Israel and Palestine were closer to peace in 94 than they ever have been but then Zionists assassinated Rabin.

After that the US and UK refused to work with Hamas and in 97 the declared Hamas a terrorist organization.

hassanmckusick ,

1982 Israel invades Lebanon after attacks from militants

1983 - 1985 Israel slowly withdraws from most of southern Lebanon

Yeah in this case they didn’t invade Lebanon for the land in the first place, they were just trying to genocide the Palestinians.

The settler thing is different because the intent is to steal the land

hassanmckusick ,

Ahh right I forgot that old saying, how does it go? “Eye for an I’ll kill your entire family”

hassanmckusick ,

Warning me isn’t really the point, how are they getting the message out to civilians if they cut power to Gaza days ago?

hassanmckusick ,

Can you link the flight trackers?

hassanmckusick ,

Yeah Hamas def made those Israeli settlers steal Palestinian homes /s

hassanmckusick ,

twitter.com/m7mdkurd/status/1712867453644972536?r…

Israel tells UN to evacuate the northern Gaza Strip within 24 hours (www.axios.com)

The Israeli Ministry of Defense and the IDF notified the UN just before midnight local time that Palestinians living north of Wadi Gaza should evacuate to the southern part of the Gaza Strip in the next 24 hours, according to UN spokesperson Stéphane Dujarric and another source with direct knowledge....

hassanmckusick ,

Hamas had popular support back in the 90’s and we (royal) almost had peace without the international community’s help. Except a zionist killed Israeli PM Rabin in '95.

In '97 the US declared Hamas terrorists (because they could use the Fatah to get what they wanted).

The U.N. says the Israeli military told it that all of northern Gaza has 24 hours to move south. (www.nytimes.com)

Israel’s military has informed the United Nations that the entire population of northern Gaza should relocate to the southern half of the territory within 24 hours, the U.N. spokesman, Stéphane Dujarric, said late on Thursday night, adding that such a movement — involving over one million people — would lead to...

hassanmckusick ,

And all that assumes you’re actually physically capable of walking to the safe zone

hassanmckusick ,

Yeah but nobody wants to pick up a book.

In 94 we (royal) almost had peace. In '93 The Oslo accords promised Palestinians self governance in 5 years. Israel under Rabin and Abbas with the PLO had an agreement for Palestine to be run by the PA.

I dk if it was more Abbas or Arafat but one of the two along with Rabin even pulled Israeli troops out of occupied Palestine and gave it back as part of the peace agreement, marking the most significant step towards peace we will see.

But then Rabin was assassinated in 95 by a zionist. Peace talks fell apart as the US refused to recognize Hamas (who had popular support), preferring the secular Fatah (PA). Whats the point in holding an election if it wont be recognized anyways? Hamas doesn’t enter the race.

Israel turns over to Netanyahu. Netanyahu refuses to meet with Arafat. At some point Netanyahu starts funding Hamas knowing that he can also pit Hamas against the Fatah. Netanyahu will fund Hamas on multiple occasions throughout the 90’s and 2000’s.

In '97 the US declares Hamas a terrorist group, ending any chance of an election that satisfies the people.

hassanmckusick ,

Ok so address the fact that Israel has killed 36x more children

hassanmckusick , (edited )

I mean it’s not a debate, Israel by 36x.

(2008-2020 because those are the numbers I was able to find: www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties)

hassanmckusick ,

Kinda weird that New Zealand takes the time to differentiate calling the political arm of Hamas not terrorists and the militant arm of Hamas (Qassam Brigades) terrorists. Maybe someone should look into why.

hassanmckusick ,

https://lemmy.discothe.quest/pictrs/image/3b4d2dd9-b1a6-473b-a88c-00a1f2877e5d.png

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