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mancy ,
@mancy@lemmy.ca avatar

GOOD. They should be called out.

dudebro ,

Zionism is a Jewish form of religious nationalism.

All Zionists are religious nationalists. Most people in Israel are right-wing lunatics who believe they’re entitled to the land in Israel because of their religion.

NuPNuA ,

…or because they were promised it by the collective world governments post WW2 as a mea culpa for how badly Jewish people were let down throughout history and during the war itself.

AdlachGyfiawn ,
@AdlachGyfiawn@lemmygrad.ml avatar

… by giving away land that didn’t belong to them and that millions of people were already living on.

dudebro ,

Hey, at least it wasn’t white people!

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

“Sorry for the genocide, here, you can have some land we stole.”

_ak ,
@_ak@lemmy.world avatar

All Zionists are religious nationalists.

Ever heard of Socialist Zionism? The most important branch of Zionism in the first half of the 20th Century, decidedly leftist, decidedly socialist with some collectivist elements (kibbutzim for example), often areligious while remaining culturally Jewish, and a fairly strong advocacy of Jewish-Arab cooperation in its base, at least in the 1920s and 1930s.

Faendol ,

Finally! I hate how the US just bends over for Israel. Any religion involved in any government will turn fascist because they can’t stop hating all the other religions. Turns out people that believe in fairy tales aren’t that bright!

dudebro ,

Pretty sure US is still sending billions of dollars of aid to Israel every year.

Pretty sure next to nothing gets sent to Palestine.

This is meaningless, unfortunately.

pingveno OP , (edited )

It’s not just the involvement of religion that’s problematic. There are a few other things:

Ultra-Orthodox Jews basically get paid by the government to sit around and do nothing for the economy. Meanwhile everyone else is obligated to conscript and fight wars that are often driven by Ultra-Orthodox Jews as a voting block.

If Gaza and the West Bank were fully absorbed and everyone living there given citizenship with voting rights, Muslims would outnumber Jews. Ignoring Muslim parties would no longer be an option. Israel’s moves seem largely to keep Palestinians permanently stateless, divided, disenfranchised, and continuously squeezed out of even the land they do have.

AllonzeeLV ,

Ooh boy, cue the zealots foreign and domestic calling him an anti-semite for not supporting Israel even when they punch down and become the victimizers.

If your support for anything is unconditional, you are both blind and dangerous.

dudebro ,

Zionists are religious nationalists.

This is why they can’t be reasoned with.

Space_Jamke , (edited )

The distinction between anti-Semitism and anti-Israeli nationalism needs to be clarified more often.

I respect Jewish people’s right to peacefully practice their religion. (Though I disagree with all organized religions for their seemingly intrinsic capacity for inflicting harm). I do not respect the Israeli military and police blowing up and beating Palestinian children to death, or ordinary people who say that violence is neceasary because they want more land.

There’s plenty of crazy people who think the other way, calling the religion unacceptable but embracing the nationalists who make human piñatas.

Raphael ,
@Raphael@lemmy.world avatar

And what are they going to do? Depose him and put another conservative in power?

Shouldn’t have given Israel so many weapons if they wanted to treat them like they treat South America but “this was unavoidable” considering Israel needed those weapons to perpetuate their terrorist actions against Palestine.

pingveno OP ,

There is a consensus in Washington around supporting Israel in the present day. It hasn’t always been this strong, especially when Israel was trading the identity of CIA moles to the Soviets. There wasn’t a whole lot of trust then. But over time, both political parties in the US have built up support. It’s only been more recently that the issue of Israel has become more partisan. Part of that has to do with Iran, since Trump scuttling the Democrat-supported JCPOA was partially driven by Israel. Then of course Democrats have always had more of an ear towards the abuse of Palestinians.

freepizzaforlife ,

Holy shit a world leading saying something other than blind enthusiastic support of Israel

133arc585 ,
@133arc585@lemmy.ml avatar

It is indeed surprising, but it’s just words. He’ll say this, then continue sending financial and military support. Nothing will come of this.

freepizzaforlife ,

It won’t, and that sucks, but idk it’s nice to hear that from him. It’s a very low bar and grandpa Joe just barely managed to clear it.

HenriVolney ,

“extrême”, the new word for fascist

Swictor ,

There’s no room for diplomacy after you label someone a fascist. We can do that, but he probably shouldn’t.

Raphael ,
@Raphael@lemmy.world avatar

'You’re only fascist if you’re left-wing." - American politicians.

HenriVolney ,

Fair point

scurzon ,

Damn after 70 years? Fascinating indoctrination here

pingveno OP ,

Also covered by The BBC.

I think this is the first time that I’ve heard Joe Biden publicly level blunt criticism at the Israeli government. The Obama administration had some criticism for settler activity, but it was much more muted.

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