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zephyrvs ,

Google his name and he’s basically writing the same stuff for more than a year:

abovethelaw.com/…/russia-plays-western-anti-war-l…

newrepublic.com/…/ukraine-war-cost-russian-propag…

abovethelaw.com/…/this-is-what-a-fifth-column-loo…

abovethelaw.com/…/tankies-sinking-in-ukraines-mud…

abovethelaw.com/…/russia-plays-western-anti-war-l…

He’s been all over the highly divisive topics that generate clicks right now without providing any deep insights.

PowerCrazy ,

What a garbage article.

krolden ,
@krolden@lemmy.ml avatar

Wow the liberals must be actually afraid of Cornell west to be writing garbage pieces like this ‘calling him out’.

krolden ,
@krolden@lemmy.ml avatar

Who the hell is Alaric DeArment anyway? This is his only article on salon and afaict his only ‘political’ article. Most of his other journalism seems to be about the biotech industry which makes the original article here even weirder.

muckrack.com/alaric-dearment/articles

133arc585 ,
@133arc585@lemmy.ml avatar

A more accurate title and thesis would be “How the West’s historical amnesia took everyone for a ride”.

The West has made a very concerted effort to ignore the historical and geopolitical context (and misrepresent it where it must mention it) surrounding the situation. The conflict did not begin in 2022 by Russia. The only way the West has managed to gain and hold support has been by deceptively misrepresenting the reality of the situation in order to rally everyone around a perceived Evil. They don’t bother describing what the people in the actual territories that asked for Russian support want. They don’t bother describing how Ukraine has bombed its own people. They don’t bother to describe how, partially due to Ukraine’s abuses, several regions voted to join Russia. They don’t bother to describe how Russia was invited by those fighting for their homes and families against Ukraine. They don’t comment on how millions of Ukrainians have chosen to immigrate to Russia since Ukraine bombed its citizens in 2014. They don’t dig in to why the majority of the global population supports Russia here.

This is not Russian imperialism or colonialism. This is not Russian aggression. The attempt to describe it that way is dishonest and, unfortunately, most people don’t care enough to actually inform themselves so this portrayal catches on rather easily.

The Western media has taken advantage of the fact that very few people are informed about historical context, and that most people don’t care about context. The Western media has taken advantage of the fact that people like to be united against a Big Evil, in a fully black-and-white way, devoid of any context and nuance.

aleph ,
@aleph@lemm.ee avatar

The conflict did not begin in 2022 by Russia. The only way the West has managed to gain and hold support has been by deceptively misrepresenting the reality of the situation in order to rally everyone around a perceived Evil. They don’t bother describing what the people in the actual territories that asked for Russian support want. They don’t bother describing how Ukraine has bombed its own people. They don’t bother to describe how, partially due to Ukraine’s abuses, several regions voted to join Russia. They don’t bother to describe how Russia was invited by those fighting for their homes and families against Ukraine.

It’s laughable that you totally omit the fact that Russia illegally annexed the Crimea back in 2014 and started this whole mess. Ukraine didn’t just decide to start bombing its own people willy-nilly - it’s because they were fighting off a foreign invader.

Regardless of the fact that some people in that region are Russian-speakers and sympathetic to Russia, that doesn’t give Russia the right to waltz into a sovereign nation and take control of a large region of it.

adroidBalloon ,
@adroidBalloon@lemmy.ml avatar

no, but you see, they "wanted it”, so it’s totally cool!

/s

BartsBigBugBag ,

Ukraine was bombing the Russian-majority Donbas region, he’s not referring to Russian Crimea, though they did cut off fresh water for Crimea after 2014s illegal annexation by Russia.

aleph ,
@aleph@lemm.ee avatar

In Donbas, it was Russia-backed separatists rather than Russian troops, although it was all part of the wider incursion into Ukraine by Russia at that time.

BartsBigBugBag ,

So, Ukrainians then?

aleph , (edited )
@aleph@lemm.ee avatar

Pro-Russian, Ukrainian paramilitaries who attacked and took over military bases and police stations, yes. What’s your point?

BartsBigBugBag ,

Do you say the same thing regarding the Kurdish separatists in Turkish Kurdistan?

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

It’s laughable that you totally omit the fact that Russia illegally annexed the Crimea back in 2014 and started this whole mess.

It very clearly started before that with Euromaidan

aleph ,
@aleph@lemm.ee avatar

The Kremlin still took it upon itself to invade and illegally seize Ukrainian land, though.

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

Yes, it did, but it’s important to actually understand the context for why it happened in order to end the conflict.

Russia didn’t just suddenly go crazy and randomly decide to restart the Tsar’s empire.

aleph ,
@aleph@lemm.ee avatar

I know that; I never said it did.

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

And I never said Russia’s invasion was legal or even justified. Glad we understand eachother.

OrnluWolfjarl ,

Spot on!

iknt ,

No country would tolerate neo-nazi building up right next to their borders and killing their ethnic people.

https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/c6e64250-e65c-45bd-a4d7-41906efcbbbd.jpeg

https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/3661144b-cfbc-41f7-b579-02a9a89eceab.jpeg

boredtortoise ,

It’s right winger propaganda that left would support Russia’s aggressions

vegai OP , (edited )

Possibly… but that theory is supported by lots of people who claim to be left wing who loudly support Russia’s aggressions.

Some of them are on the comments of this thread.

boredtortoise ,

Right wingers have said they’re something else throughout history

awwwyissss ,

But are they actually people? I suspect many are KremlinGPT.

adroidBalloon , (edited )
@adroidBalloon@lemmy.ml avatar

you don’t have to look far (even around here) to find people calling themselves communists while rabidly defending Russia’s illegal invasion of Ukraine, for example, making some pretty ridiculous claims and praising Putin with a litany of logical fallacies. call them out, and suffer mass reporting, dogpiling, cross-community harassment, and bans. I believe they’re called “tankies”— self-proclaimed communists who are anything but.

the lemmygrad instance is almost nothing but this.

edit: I suspect that, in theory, they may like the idea of communism (they certainly like to espouse communist rhetoric), but they rush to defend authoritarian ideologues which doesn’t make sense-- especially when they pick sides with capitalist autocrats and dictators who are also war criminals.

boredtortoise ,

Yeah, they’re the antithesis of communism or leftism but some definitely are fooled by them

Duamerthrax , (edited )

I know someone like that. He’s an outspoken communist and sees anything anti west as inherently good. It’s a very black and white world view.

He also thinks winning an argument just means outlasting the other person and shouting. I once observed him argue tabletop game mechanics or a half an hour before we realized he doesn’t think removing cards from a deck changes the probability of getting one of the remaining cards. He can’t hold down a job and ironically, he’s in digital marketing.

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

You’re very confused lol

adroidBalloon ,
@adroidBalloon@lemmy.ml avatar

go on, explain that

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

Pointing out the role of the West in provoking Russia is not the same as saying Russia’s aggressive reaction is good or justified.

adroidBalloon ,
@adroidBalloon@lemmy.ml avatar

oh, so now it’s The West™®©’s fault that Russia illegally invaded another country?

lmao

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

Cause and effect have nothing to do with “fault” - the Wests support for Euromaidan lead to the annexation of Crimea which lead to the conflict in the Donbas which lead to the invasion. Things happen for reasons, Russia didn’t just randomly go crazy.

Stop moralizing and start looking at events materially.

adroidBalloon ,
@adroidBalloon@lemmy.ml avatar

Cause and effect have nothing to do with “fault”

dude, you JUST said THIS in a previous comment, lmao:

Pointing out the role of the West in provoking Russia…

so which is it?

Stop moralizing and start looking at events materially.

oh, so when you can’t answer to your own hypocrisy, you move the goalposts? you’re doing exactly what I said above:

rabidly defending Russia’s illegal invasion of Ukraine, for example, making some pretty ridiculous claims and praising Putin with a litany of logical fallacies

confused? looks like I was precisely correct.

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

Okay, the fact that Russia was provoked doesn’t mean they aren’t also at fault and it doesn’t mean the invasion was justified. All I’m saying is the West shares responsibility for using Ukraine as a proxy for its conflict with Russia. That’s why fault is irrelevant - both sides share responsibility and the war will only end if both sides negotiate.

You refuse to accept that the West played any role at all! As far as you’re concerned, Russians are orcs and we should fight this war to the last Ukrainian.

adroidBalloon ,
@adroidBalloon@lemmy.ml avatar

Okay, the fact that Russia was provoked doesn’t mean they aren’t also at fault and it doesn’t mean the invasion was justified. All I’m saying is the West shares responsibility for using Ukraine as a proxy for its conflict with Russia.

bullshit. first of all, you can’t keep throwing around “The West” as a blame-all for everything you don’t like when specific actors do specific things and expect to have a rational discussion bout geopolitics— also, cite some evidence for these claims, please. second, you also can’t “both-sides” this and expect me to take this seriously— whomever may have had a role in Crimean unrest in 2014 sure as hell isn’t tantamount to an illegal invasion of a sovereign nation, nor do I concede that there’s shared blame in that act. it’s on a whole other level of magnitude, and Putin clearly used it as a flimsy pretext for an action he’d been planning since he took power a years before.

That’s why fault is irrelevant - both sides share responsibility and the war will only end if both sides negotiate.

and third: your attempts to deflect blame away from Russia/Putin for the illegal and brutal invasion of Ukraine is transparent, and, despite your repeated claims that it’s not justified, you obviously think it is or your wouldn’t be so vociferously defending it and Russia for doing so.

You refuse to accept that the West played any role at all!

I never said that, but by making such false claims, you make yourself and you false position appear sympathetic to the reader. it’s an old propaganda tactic.

As far as you’re concerned, Russians are orcs and we should fight this war to the last Ukrainian.

more playing the victim by making up things I never said. for someone who keeps saying that Russia wasn’t justified, you keep taking their side and painting them as victims despite their illegal invasion, history of brutality and long list of war crimes.

so, which is it?

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

and, despite your repeated claims that it’s not justified, you obviously think it is

Since you’ve already decided my position for me I see no reason to continue engaging with you. You’ve already won the argument we’re having inside your head and nothing I say matters at this point because no matter what I say, obviously what I mean is something else.

adroidBalloon ,
@adroidBalloon@lemmy.ml avatar

no matter what I say, obviously what I mean is something else.

I think I did a pretty good job of using your own words to prove that, yes

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

No, you just shoved words in my mouth and then argued with what you pretended I was saying.

I keep saying that Russia’s invasion is an overly aggressive and unjustified response to Western provocations, but you pretend like this means I support Russia’s war. I just want peace, whereas you only want Russia to lose. You only want the peace of the graveyard and you are willing to fight to the last Ukrainian to make that happen.

adroidBalloon ,
@adroidBalloon@lemmy.ml avatar

No, you just shoved words in my mouth and then argued with what you pretended I was saying.

that’s what you did. I used quotes…

I keep saying that Russia’s invasion is an overly aggressive and unjustified response to Western provocations

which is bullshit. Russia, alone, is responsible for its actions. It, alone, decided to illegally invade Ukraine, annex land, and commit war crimes. This mythical “The West” you keep mentioning and blaming (yet can’t specifically name or even give specific detains for deeds done) is just a flimsy pretext for your repeated defense and deflections for the clear fault that lies on Russia for it’s illegal and monstrous acts. Out of one side of your mouth you claim Russia isn’t justified, yet, out of the other come your justifications.

Your comments ar duplicitous and hypocritical, and, when challenged, you play victim, inventing things I’ve never said and then parroting the same doublespeak over and over, regardless of how many holes I poke in it as if you have amnesia.repeating this flawed argument won’t magically make it work.

circular logic is circular— and yet another logical fallacy. remember how I predicted this in that first comment?

GnuLinuxDude ,
@GnuLinuxDude@lemmy.ml avatar

This lack of self-awareness stands in stark contrast with European nations that decolonized and, although in fits and starts, today seek to atone for past injustices. In 2021, Germany formally apologized for genocide in Namibia in the early 1900s, while Queen Camilla declined to wear a crown at King Charles’ coronation bearing the Kohinoor diamond, which Britain plundered when it ruled India.

This is too funny. Did Britain return the diamond? No. Did Germany pay reparations? No. But this is “stark contrast” to what Russia has done. Very hilarious. It’s actually incredible that the author couldn’t even cite real examples of voluntary decolonization from western powers, because it was always done by force from below. And sometimes even those who tried to overthrow their colonizers were financially punished like how Haiti was.

The article is filled with dumb ideas, half-truths, and revisionist history. Can’t take this seriously.

vegai OP ,

What makes you think Germany didn’t pay reparations for World War 2?

GnuLinuxDude ,
@GnuLinuxDude@lemmy.ml avatar

This was about Namibia? The part I quoted

vegai OP ,

Oh, to Namibia. I see.

BrooklynMan ,
@BrooklynMan@lemmy.ml avatar

because it was always done by force from below

European (especially British) decolonization of Africa was mostly the result of 1) the Atlantic Charter negotiated between FDR and Churchill after WWII when FDR told Churchill to stop that shit, and 2) because Europe’s devastated economy couldn’t afford to maintain their colonies abroad anymore anyway.

I wouldn’t say that Europe did any of this voluntarily, however. they were certainly forced by circumstance, highly pressured by the United States who threatened to withhold fund for post-war relief and rebuilding, and, obviously, mounting unrest in the colonies themselves.

OrnluWolfjarl ,

They apologized, so it’s fine. The former colonizers can keep exploiting their former colonial subjects through economic, social and political strangleholds. If it’s such a big problem they can just apologize again. This whole article is one big dump of projection.

DonnieDarkmode ,

And sometimes even those who tried to overthrow their colonizers were financially punished like how Haiti was.

And just to bring it full circle, after the 2010 earthquake in Haiti there was a push for the French government to finally make reparations for what they did (to the tune of $28 billion). The French government said no

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

speculating that blindness to Russian colonialism could be due to a failure of Western education systems as well as Soviet propaganda and leftist valorization of the Soviet Union as a foe of Western imperialism

lol they’re still blaming the USSR for brainwashing us from the grave

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