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naturalgasbad ,

Clearly not harming China’s economy. China saw +7.2% consumer sales, +5.9% infrastructure, +6.5% manufacturing, and was dragged down by -9.6% real estate. Those growth numbers are absurd.

jaschen ,

Are you sure? My family in China are seeing consumer sales drop to almost nothing. Restaurants closing daily. Malls empty.

Those numbers you are posting seems like China “released” numbers. Not actuals.

naturalgasbad ,

The average restaurant lifespan is like 3 years, and malls are emptying around the world because of the rise of ecommerce. These are anecdotes that hold both in good economic conditions and in bad economic conditions. China’s going through a bit of an D2C ecommerce revolution with Douyin (274B USD in the first 10 months of 2023, growing 60% YoY) and others. For reference, Amazon’s sales from their ecommerce platform is around 350B USD for 2023, and its definitely not growing 60% YoY.

angrytoadnoises ,
@angrytoadnoises@lemmygrad.ml avatar

We put ourselves down the path of endless speculation and jumping at shadows if we just automatically assume any and all data provided by China is outright falsehoods. There are people in China employed to track these statistics and there is material benefits to having these statistics available to the public. There’s even incentive for this information to be true.

If the information simply coming from China is enough to dismiss them as China spreading their agenda, then the same could earnestly be argued for any other country on Earth. This kind of logic is the same logic QAnon types use to immediately dismiss evidence.

“The vaccine is causing people to die in huge numbers. What do you mean you disagree? I’ve seen it, and my family has seen it. Those statistics saying otherwise? Let me guess, they’re provided by the vaccine companies?”

morrowind ,
@morrowind@lemmy.ml avatar

That is a meaningless statement to make without a point of comparison. How do you know it wouldn’t be higher if the population was growing.

Also yeah, that’s to be expected, the economic harm comes in the long term.

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Yes it seems like even the Chinese haven’t figured out how to put babies to work yet.

It’s going to take a few years to catch up.

Coreidan ,

Hope it continues. Hope it happens every where. There are too many people on this planet and the numbers are only going up. This isn’t sustainable at all.

DreamAccountant ,

Good. They’re overpopulated and under-developed.

Why the fuck are people worried about this? This is a great thing. Good for them, keeping their population under conrtol.

Someone tell India.

lobut , (edited )

I think it’s the “economy”. We’ve set up systems where the young pay out the older people. At least that’s my uneducated understanding of the situation.

However what’s funny is that the economy under China (and most places in the world) is why people aren’t having kids now. It’s probably done more de-population than the one child policy.

Coreidan ,

Capitalism expects infinite growth, which is impossible and unsustainable.

It’s time for a new system. Feels like that time is now as it appears capitalism is slowly collapsing on itself.

Dudewitbow ,

economy definately has a major role in it. similar to a lot of western nations, there is a growing number of educated chinese people who have education in a market that isnt hiring enough for the roles that they acquired skills for. the lack of having enough higher paying jobs puts off people from having children, in particular for people who have higher education, as they are more aware of the costs attached to children.

it all boils down to not enough people on the lower 90% have enough funds to think about having children to support the (unsustainable) social security countries often have.

naturalgasbad ,

It’s not even necessarily this, but that raising a successful child in China is obscenely expensive. There’s only so many spots at Tsinghua/Beida. China has prided itself on its upwards economic mobility, but cultural pressures from that economic mobility are unsustainable.

SocialMediaRefugee ,

I think it boils down to you need a lot of kids to run a farm due to the manual labor demands. You don’t need a lot of kids to work in a factory or office.

Crikeste ,

Under-developed? What kind of American propaganda is that?

jimmydoreisalefty ,
@jimmydoreisalefty@lemmy.world avatar

“My husband and I do want to have a kid but we can’t afford it for now,” said Wang Chengyi, a 31-year-old woman in Beijing.

She told the BBC she and her partner needed to save money for another three years to provide for the costs of having a child - taking into account school expenses in particular.

“I do want to get pregnant while I’m young as it’s better for my health. However, I just don’t have enough money for now so I have to postpone. It’s a shame and I feel panic over it sometimes,” she said.

“China is no different to other countries that have deindustrialised and moved into the service sector. The population becomes more educated and skilled and healthier, and they want to do other jobs rather than work in factories or construction,” said Prof Gietel-Basten.

“The government is aware of this and has planned for this over the past decade and so it’s expected to continue with this kind of direction.”

China records population decline for second straight year [Jan 17 2024 | Frances Mao | BBC News]

www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-68002803

Many people are delaying marriage or choosing not to have children. Even those who do often have only one child because of the high cost of educating children in cities in a highly competitive academic environment. The population of women of child-bearing age has also fallen.

Local governments are offering incentives for new children. A municipality in China’s Inner Mongolia region has started offering payments of 2,000 yuan ($280) for a second child and 5,000 yuan ($700) for a third, as well as requiring that employers give an extra 60 and 90 days of paid maternity leave for the second and third child respectively, according to an online report by state-owned China National Radio.

But Yuan Xin, a professor at Nankai University and vice-president of the China Population Association, added that “the downward trend in China’s total population is bound to be long-term and become an inherent characteristic.”

China’s population falls for a 2nd straight year as births drop even after end of one-child policy [Jan 17 2024 | Ken Moritsugu | Associated Press News]

apnews.com/…/china-population-births-deaths-covid…

WashedOver ,
@WashedOver@lemmy.ca avatar

I’ve seen people argue the real numbers of the decline for China are much worse than they have shared and they may already be past the point of no return like Japan and South Korea. It’s going to be interesting to see how they handle an aging population.

Asia does have a more recent tradition of kids being the retirement plan so they might fair a little better than places like the US where that is not the norm anymore. The US with their infrastructure crumbling from underfunding and a general lack of care, should provide a good side by side comparison of the ride down with the differences of family versus industry support of seniors.

TheBat ,
@TheBat@lemmy.world avatar

“China is no different to other countries that have deindustrialised and moved into the service sector. The population becomes more educated and skilled and healthier, and they want to do other jobs rather than work in factories or construction,” said Prof Gietel-Basten.

Deindustrialised? China?

Who’s making all the stuff then?

Dudewitbow ,

China still makes a majority of the stuff, due to being local to raw resources (chinas major power in the industry, resource logistics), but for businesses that dont require as many resources being nearby, you see production move, mainly into countries in south eastern asia, like Thailand or Vietnam.

naturalgasbad ,

China’s industrial capacity stretches pretty much the entire spectrum. Instead of offshoring entirely, China has opted for automating traditionally labour-intensive manufacturing industries, which is why China now has the fifth-highest robot density in the world.

Uglyhead , (edited )
@Uglyhead@lemmy.world avatar

good

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