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Blackout ,
@Blackout@kbin.social avatar

That's over 28 pounds of weapons per Gaza resident.

winterayars ,

How many pounds has each US citizen paid for with their tax dollars, i wonder? How many people were killed? How much do you have to pay in taxes for that number to average out to >=1?

PanArab ,
@PanArab@lemmy.ml avatar

Palestinians live in refugee camps and don’t have a military or weapons industry, is this amount even necessary? This is good for Russia, because these weapons could have gone to Ukraine.

massive_bereavement ,
@massive_bereavement@kbin.social avatar

That was the goal pushed by Iran. By putting the Russian Invasion in the background, Western support diluted and those that oppose it could do it openly while Putin's army goes full steam ahead of their elections.

PanArab ,
@PanArab@lemmy.ml avatar

Hamas is independent of Iran. Iran had no prior knowledge.

massive_bereavement ,
@massive_bereavement@kbin.social avatar

This says otherwise: https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/israel%E2%80%93hamas-war-iran-updates

I mean they have solid arguments, if you can provide similar sources or provable arguments I would appreciate it.

PanArab ,
@PanArab@lemmy.ml avatar

www.cnn.com/2023/10/11/politics/…/index.html

politico.com/…/u-s-and-israeli-officials-remain-u…

thedailybeast.com/hamas-officials-say-iran-helped…

Iran is helping Hamas financially and perhaps in some technical aspects, and nothing is wrong with tha. But not to the point of running Hamas or having prior knowledge of their operations.

massive_bereavement ,
@massive_bereavement@kbin.social avatar

You gotta read what you've shared: US gov said they can't trace a direct link to Iran, though there is clear evidence of coordination: https://www.npr.org/2023/10/10/1204789074/israel-hamas-hezbollah-iran

Ties are clear: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/13/world/middleeast/hamas-iran-israel-attack.html

Yes there's no public conspiratorial evidence in the attacks, and probably even if there was nobody wants this to escalate it into a full blown war.

Your point that Hamas is independent is challenging because there are clear links and both economic and material support comes from the Republic. That said, AFAIK (and I know very little) I've been told that their collaboration isn't hierarchical, so if Hamas decides to go in a blaze of glory, it could have been their own choice.

That said, while running the Syrian campaign Hamas had ties to other organization e.g. here, it seems that as the group shrank, their support base concentrated in Tehran (e.g. 1, 2).

What I refer mostly is this, while we can doubt the conclusions, the implications of Hamas being invited to Moscow, Bogdanov "unwavering support" and the common presence of certain materials made me think that even if neither Iran nor Russia had anything to do with it, they still had enough clarity given the support before the whole thing blew out.

PanArab ,
@PanArab@lemmy.ml avatar

Where has the ties been proven? It is not like we are seeing Iranian generals and politicians in Gaza Strip a la with US politicians in the Israeli regime.

If you asked me, I think Iran should be doing more to help Hamas, but to suggest that they planned the attack when they too were surprised by it is absurd, and reduces the indigenous Palestinian resistance to an Iran-affiliated militia.

massive_bereavement ,
@massive_bereavement@kbin.social avatar

Definitely not saying that they planned it, but that the relationship between Russia and Hamas, enabled by Iran, might had a role in enabling them to happen. My point comes mostly from here:
https://www.mei.edu/publications/essential-questions-about-russia-hamas-link-evidence-and-its-implications
(something tells me you didn't go through my links ;) )

In any case.. what do I know?

PanArab ,
@PanArab@lemmy.ml avatar

I think you don’t know why Palestinians fight. There’s a reason it was named Al-Aqsa Flood aljazeera.com/…/israeli-settlers-storm-al-aqsa-mo… and it isn’t the first time Hamas responds to Israel desecration of the Al-Aqsa Mosque.

Blaming Iran or Russia for Hamas’ actions proves you are high on US propaganda.

Krause ,
@Krause@lemmygrad.ml avatar

if you want to understand war you should start by not reading understandingwar.org

sadreality ,

Ukraine is a small sacrifice to make for the holy war to able "better people get their land back"

Neato ,
@Neato@kbin.social avatar

For defense? No. For extermination? Also no but it makes it more deniable.

AntonyLebion ,
@AntonyLebion@futurology.today avatar

Long live Biden!

SomeGuyNamedPaul ,

At first I read this as USPS delivered… I guess I need more coffee and less head cold.

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