Dutch embassy warned that Israel uses "disproportionate force" in Gaza

Hatsune_Miku , 7 months ago

dutch asks israel to only kill 1,300 in response :v

Heresy_generator , 7 months ago

israel does not have a plan in Gaza and is trying to maximize civilian casualties.

To be clear, these are OP's words and represent their opinion; neither part of this sentiment is in the memo or article.

The Dutch embassy also noted that the IDF applies “elements” of the Dahiya doctrine - a strategy first used in the war in Lebanon in 2006 which "intends to deliberately cause massive destruction to infrastructure and civilian centers" while taking large numbers of civilian casualties for granted. That violates the laws of war, the memo states.

The Dutch Defense Attache at the embassy in Tel Aviv believes Israel is trying to destroy Gaza's infrastructure and civilian buildings and doesn't give a shit about the civilians that will die as a result, not that they're "trying to maximize civilian casualties." And that is a plan, it's just that the plan is horrific and the Defense Attache believes their goal is unachievable:

According to the Dutch embassy, Israel’s stated goal of “a clear military victory over Hamas” is impossible to achieve. Even if Hamas is almost completely destroyed, the fundamentalist movement’s ideology will live on. “There is no military answer to this, this is a political issue.”

Piecemakers3Dprints , 7 months ago

Frankly, OP’s words are closer to a summary of the quotes you provided than you seem to be insinuating…

sab , 7 months ago

Yes and no. It's fairly certain the Dutch embassy would object strongly to OPs summary. The difference between targeting civilian infrastructure with no regard for civilian lives is very different from actively targeting civilians, even though both are deplorable.

It's important not to simplify these things. By exaggerating and wrongfully quoting people you open up for a pedantic debate about differences in nuance, distracting from what is really important: They are targeting civilian infrastructure, not giving a shit how many civilians they murder in the process.

SleepyWheel , 7 months ago

It’s more than not giving a shit. Killing civilians is a feature not a bug, it helps Israel’s war aims in several ways and is entirely intended.

sab , 7 months ago

That's your words, not the Dutch. Doesn't mean you're wrong; that's a different debate entirely.

SleepyWheel , 7 months ago

Israel “intends to deliberately cause massive destruction to infrastructure and civilian centers” while taking large numbers of civilian casualties for granted. That violates the laws of war, the memo states.

I guess you’re arguing the memo only accuses them of intending to destroy “civilian centres”, not civilians. But "“taking large numbers of civilian casualties for granted” is part of the intent. Israel is the arsonist who knows there are children sleeping in the house.

My view is that the Dutch are, in diplomatic language, saying that.

Piecemakers3Dprints , 7 months ago

Honoring their CYA phrasing on a mere technicality is a pretty shit take, citizen.

sab , 7 months ago

Personally I think warping people's word for no good reason other than to simplify things to better fit your own interpretation of reality is a pretty shit take, but each to their own I guess.

Piecemakers3Dprints , 7 months ago

Clarifying purposefully obfuscated phrasing is hardly “warping”, and your assumption of narrative intent on OP’s part is beneath you. How many of those politicians even remotely connected to that certified release above do you suppose even know your name, much less give two soggy shits if you exist? Don’t bootlick, and don’t pontificate. 🤷🏼‍♂️

Linkerbaan OP , 7 months ago (edited 7 months ago)

I’m sorry if I wasn’t supposed to put anything outside of the main article in the body, I thought this only applied to the title. I have slightly added parts of different stories I didn’t link above

This Dutch newspaper article is my source about the Defense minister being furious about this internal memo being leaked

telegraaf.nl/…/minister-woest-over-uitlekken-gaza…

The claim about “no plan” is worded slightly differently in the original leaked Dutch memo as “no strategy”

nos.nl/…/2497847-gelekt-israel-memo-ambassade-nie…

(original NRC article is pay walled so this one will have to do) “In de rapportage staat volgens de krant dat de Israëlische politieke en militaire top >>>geen duidelijke strategie hebben.” (they have no clear strategy)

The maximizing civilian casualty stuff is basically what the article is about though. The israeli strategy seems to be do as much damage as possible to the Gaza strip in the hope Gazans will flee into Sinai and thus permanently evict them from Gaza.

What I meant by “plan” is that there is no “plan” to do get rid of Hamas or restore peace in Gaza, the only “plan” israel has according to this leaked memo is to ethnically cleanse Gaza by pushing the populace into Egypt. Which is very contradictory to what israel has been proclaiming the past few weeks.

Also if they target infrastructure they target civilians. Are the people of Gaza supposed to magically live without food water and medicine? They’re not plants that live on rainfall and sunshine.

cuibono , 7 months ago

The Dutch minister of Defense is furious about the leaking of a memo that confirms israel does not have a plan in Gaza and is trying to maximize civilian casualties.

Seems like they should be more furious about the fact that a supposed dear ally is trying to maximize civilian casualties. But I guess when you live in the upside down it’s the whistleblowers who are actually the villains.

Linkerbaan OP , 7 months ago

The Netherlands is currently making good money selling F35 parts to Israel to repair their bombers with. The PM Mark Rutte is trying to become the next head of NATO. Stop trying to ruin his future please.

There are poor F35 farmers that need this money to feed their families.