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SeaJ ,

But teachers are now demanding better protection for themselves amid growing outrage about teaching staff being mistreated, including being accused of child abuse for disciplining students.

If the system is anything like it was 15 years ago, those accusations are warranted. I know several people who taught in Korea and they were pretty appalled at how abusive many teachers were.

downpunxx ,
@downpunxx@kbin.social avatar

The reason Teachers always lose their fight, and I was just made aware by this realization during the COVID pandemic, is that the teachers, real main job, what they're truly, at the basic of levels, are hired to do, is babysit children so their parents can go to work and make the countries (whatever country their in) economic wheels turn. With the outlawing of child labor (making a comeback under Republican state legislatures), countries need their adults working, powering the engines of economy by which all governments function. Teachers are necessary babysitters first and foremost before anything else, they keep the children occupied during the day. Education comes a distant second in priority. Given this newly realized formulation, it becomes obvious that the state couldn't care less how teachers enjoy their work, as long as they continue to show up to watch and police and jail the little ones for 8 hours a day.

money_loo ,

Babysitters already exist so that makes fuck-all sense, numbnuts.

Deceptichum ,
@Deceptichum@kbin.social avatar

It’s called money dumbarse.

Schools are free, babysitters are not.

money_loo ,

Are they, though, really?

Deceptichum ,
@Deceptichum@kbin.social avatar

Yes.

money_loo ,

Do they?

School supplies and materials?

Costs of transportation?

Extracurricular activities?

Uniforms or dress codes?

Costs to eat?

Tutoring costs because your kid is in public school?

Technology access requirements for the modern world like tablets or computers with specific often paid software?

Field trips and special projects?

I dunno, it’s all starting to add up to a little more than free.

Deceptichum ,
@Deceptichum@kbin.social avatar

Stupidly pedantic.

Why don’t you just add every single expense incurred in their life to your list?

CaptainAniki ,

deleted_by_author

    •
    Deceptichum ,
    @Deceptichum@kbin.social avatar

    Oh please, shit like "tutoring costs" or "cost to eat" are entirely disingenuous - ones some trust fund shit, and the other ignores the fact that children not in school still have feeding costs, for the actual few core things transport/supplies/etc. any developed nation will have a means of access for those who need it.

    money_loo ,

    Now explain how you’re so stupid, likely from American public school education, that you can’t tell the difference between childcare, a simple babysitter watching your toddler for four hours, and everything teachers do separate from those things.

    Imbecile.

    mateomaui ,

    He didn’t argue that. From here it seems like your own education was lacking reading comprehension.

    money_loo ,

    Them:

    The reason Teachers always lose their fight, and I was just made aware by this realization during the COVID pandemic, is that the teachers, real main job, what they’re truly, at the basic of levels, are hired to do, is babysit children

    Me: Teachers aren’t babysitters, numbnuts.

    You: “you CaNt ReAd GoOd”

    mateomaui , (edited )

    It’s amazing that you read that exact sentence and aren’t able to read between the lines that clearly he recognizes that teachers have normal teaching responsibilities, but that to the average parent who cannot be bothered to show up for parent teacher meetings to actually show concern for what the kids are learning, teachers are just glorified babysitters that are paid for with their taxes. I stand by my comment that while you can read, you don’t comprehend very well.

    edit: it’s also amazing that you seem completely unaware that the average underpaid, underappreciated teacher in the US has this exact impression of how the average parent views them… as glorified babysitters, and not respected as teachers or paid well for educating and generally dealing with everyone else’s kids all day.

    Yes, I know the article is about Korea, I imagine the same dynamic applies, given the nature of the article.

    mateomaui ,

    Unless you want the kids to grow up to be completely undeniably stupid, education has to happen at some point. Babysitters aren’t trained for or paid enough for that. Teachers aren’t paid enough for that.

    Also all the costs you’re adding up are still nothing in comparison to having to pay a babysitter a livable hourly wage for 40+ hours a week, and then still have to feed and clothe the kids etc because the babysitter isn’t covering that for you out of their own pay.

    So yes, on the point alone that you don’t have to personally employ someone on a full-time basis and pay them out of your own pocket just to make sure your kid doesn’t burn the house down while you’re gone, it is cheaper.

    Don’t want to incur such costs? Don’t have kids that you have to do something with during the day.

    money_loo ,

    Nobody’s denying that teachers keeping an eye on your kid slightly at school will prevent them from burning your house down, only that believing that’s the sole purpose of the teacher is asinine and so stupid it makes my brain hurt.

    The people saying that obviously felt that way themselves in school and didn’t take it seriously. And it shows now.

    mateomaui ,

    He didn’t say “sole purpose”, he said “main job” in the context of what the typical lowest common denominator parent these days expects first from a school just so they can go to work. “Main job” implies there are other jobs teachers do that those same parents don’t consider as important as just keeping their kids busy so they can work. Perhaps you should read the post more carefully to avoid arguing against something that wasn’t argued in the first place.

    money_loo ,

    The very existence of homework disproves this stupid theory.

    mateomaui ,

    It’s ok to be too stupid to understand the point he’s actually making. No one expects you to get past your shortsighted interpretation of the argument.

    bobman ,

    Babysitters are way more expensive for parents that would be paying taxes anyways to support public schools.

    It’s not like you take your kid out of public school and all of a sudden you pay less in taxes, lol.

    money_loo ,

    Babysitters != to actual prolonged childcare.

    bobman ,

    Babysitters are way more expensive for parents that would be paying taxes anyways to support public schools.

    so that makes fuck-all sense, numbnuts.

    Oh the irony of people like you thinking they have a point.

    money_loo ,

    Well thank goodness for intelligent retorts like this one for keeping me humble. Great points, bob!

    Canis_76 ,

    I haven’t even read the whole thing yet, but damn! You have a brain! I came here ready to take a dump on someone, but you… Make… Sense?? This does not compute. I gotta go somewhere else to empty my bowls. Good job.

    barsoap ,

    Given this newly realized formulation

    /c/im14andthisisnew

    CluckN ,

    I was distracted, by their extreme use, of extra punctuation, that they have, on each line.

    FlickOfTheBean ,

    I’m sorry, but your post seems incomplete or I’m reading too far past what you’re actually saying. Are you meaning to say this is what teachers are supposed to be doing (ie, pretending to be jailers instead of educators) or are you saying this needs to change somehow? Something else, maybe?

    Like the way you write makes me think a lot of unflattering things about your stances, and I’m not sure why… like, for example, it seems like you’re saying it’s a good thing child labor protections are being taken away in Republican states… is that actually your position though? Or is that sarcasm that’s not coming through very well?

    Sorry for the million questions but I see this is already getting quite heated, and I’m trying to figure out if the heat is warranted or if it’s a general misunderstanding.

    5BC2E7 ,

    He doesn’t need to come up with a comprehensive solution. I imagine he could have confidence in his perspective but not so much about how to resolve it. He characterized the situation in a way that seems callous but aligned with reality. You don’t have to cover all the basis when commenting.

    If you agree with the characterization you can debate potential solutions. Seems more productive than doubting the stance the person who is bringing a potentially useful perspective. Generally it’s necessary to have a good grasp on reality when trying to solve an issue. Id rather see it as the first step towards a solution.

    FlickOfTheBean ,

    Oh I see it now, I gave an example of what their writing is leading me to believe about them. Odd that you’re reading that far into it that you’re telling me I doubt them while I’m asking for clarification.

    I don’t know anything about this person, what is there to doubt yet? If anything, I’m giving them the benefit of the doubt by asking for clarification rather than joining the dogpile.

    But since you’re here now, what do you think about what they’re saying? Do you understand it enough to make conclusions about their beliefs? Because that’s my problem right now, I don’t think I have enough to do it even though I’m interested in what they’re saying

    5BC2E7 ,

    I mean to say that you were concerned or at least wondered if he endorses what he is seeing or not. I felt the need to comment because I usually ran into people thinking i supported a stance just because i was able to characterize it. It’s a typical reaction. I prefer to keep in mind that we don’t know his stance. He might be pessimistic and or frustrated with the issue. Alternatively he could be an idiot who enjoys the bad situation. It would be somewhat idiotic if he has no moral qualms because he would benefit more by not drawing attention into the root cause of the issue.

    FlickOfTheBean ,

    Oh I get that, no problem.

    My issue is the characterize seems to be all over the place at best and minorly nefarious at worse, but I think I totally get where you’re coming from.

    I do appreciate the second guess though, I do sometimes write things in ways that make people think I actively dislike them when all I’m actually doing is reporting a reaction that I thought was interesting, and I think a little bit of that happened here.

    In any case, legit, seems like we’re on the same page now

    assassin_aragorn ,

    Their statement is certainly right about what a lot of people seem to believe, and it’s a sad indictment of the reality. Conservatives just see teachers as liberal babysitters, so they don’t provide proper funding for anything. Where, in reality, teachers are one of society’s most noble professions. Its because of my teachers that I’ve grown into the person I am today and have had the successes that I have.

    In elementary school, they took an active interest in me and other students when they didn’t have to, and it wasn’t really part of their job. But they personally wanted to see us succeed and enjoyed teaching. In middle school my teachers provided the guidance and structure that I needed as a depressed, hormonal mess. And in high school, my classes were either business transactions, or the teachers became my friends and mentors. They taught me how to think critically, evaluate objectively, and argue intelligently. And perhaps most importantly – that there was more to life than just schoolwork.

    As an adult approaching 30 now, it’s depressing to see that things have only gotten worse for teachers, not better. They still get paid jack shit, they have to figure out how to do more with less and less support/funding + more students per class, and these days they have to deal with fucking Karens who don’t want their kids to learn facts that might hurt their feelings. Oh and of course, there’s school shootings where teachers are trying to protect their students.

    bobman ,

    Not sure why you’re being downvoted. You’re 100% correct.

    dragonflyteaparty ,

    So, legitimate question. Do you think that children learn nothing of any importance whatsoever in any public grade school? It’s absolutely ridiculous to think that public schooling is first and foremost babysitting because we don’t have child labor laws. What in the world would adults be doing at 18 if there wasn’t any schooling kindergarten through 12th grade? How, pray tell, would they be ready for a vocational school or college or any secondary school really without k-12? Would their parents be required to stay home and teach them?

    Sure, schooling doesn’t seem to teach people much to get them ready for the world anymore, but I hardly think that’s because school is primarily babysitting. You obviously have an incredibly low opinion of teachers if you really think that’s why they exist. The lack of relevance of grade school seems to be more because of the hype over college and the tendency of companies to require more and more education for a job. Lack vocational classes in high school plays into that, too, but cutting them likely had to do more with teaching to a test and getting rid of things that “didn’t matter”.

    Despite that you may think people would figure out how to write, read, do basic math, understand science theory, learn geography, learn civics, analyze fiction and nonfiction works, learn higher levels of math and science, learn subsequent languages, oh and socialize because that really is a very important part of schooling, without school at all, people wouldn’t… There’s a ton of basic knowledge you need to survive in this world. Maybe you think people will just absorb it through osmosis, but that’s not really how that works.

    Teachers are important. Period. Their job is made difficult by those who think they have the right to micromanage the curriculum. Their job is made difficult by being paid or fired for students who pass or fail a test. Teachers, on the whole, are excellent, wonderful people. They don’t need this belittling nonsense.

    gabe ,

    Holy shit, teacher suicides? What the fuck

    Chozo ,

    I'm honestly surprised it's not more common. Especially in the US. I see nothing but horror stories from teachers about how uncontrollable kids have gotten in recent years. Plus videos of teachers being attacked by their students, or just straight to getting shot by them.

    This generation of kids is causing so much trauma for teachers these days, it's insane.

    Deceptichum ,
    @Deceptichum@kbin.social avatar

    The issue stems from the generation of the parents, the children are a symptom of their environment.

    davepleasebehave ,

    Certainly not the systemic underfunding of the education system.

    lolcatnip ,

    Education is certainly underfunded, but I don’t see how you can blame toxic kids and parents on that. Sounds more like a symptom of a couple of generations of atrocious parenting to me.

    EssentialCoffee ,

    Part of the reason toxic kids and parents exist is because administration doesn’t support teachers either. It’s an entire system of issues.

    bobman ,

    Bro, you can ‘fund’ it as much as possible and children are still going to behave like animals if they don’t have any home training.

    davepleasebehave ,

    just strange I suppose that you don’t see this is systems where the education is better funded. granted it might take a few generations to really take hold. but funding education should be obvious.

    bobman ,

    Yeah. A lot of the shitty parents had kids at a very young age this generation and we’re seeing the repercussions of that.

    You need to be able to take care of yourself before you can take care of someone else.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if we start seeing more kids raised by their grandparents because their actual parents are shit.

    MaybeItWorks ,

    I’d actually hazard a guess that on average, parents are older these days. I don’t think the issue is really young parents, it’s that parents don’t discipline now. They just shove a screen in front of their kid instead of having a meaningful conversation. Parents now were raised with somewhat instant gratification and it’s even worse with their kids.

    Deceptichum ,
    @Deceptichum@kbin.social avatar

    What?

    People used to have children at 18 (or earlier), most people now are waiting until their 30s if at all.

    QHC ,

    Is this based on actual statistics of any kind, or just your ass?

    MossBear ,

    Or kids being raised on the internet. Shit heads teaching kids to behave like shit heads.

    bobman ,

    I personally think teachers in that environment should work together and open up their own schools.

    MaybeItWorks ,

    How does that solve the problem with unruly children? It just puts them in a new school with more liability than when they were just teachers.

    bobman ,

    Sorry, I meant to imply that this school run by them would have the authority to pick and choose who gets to attend.

    The unruly children would simply be barred.

    MaybeItWorks ,

    Ehhh, there’s a lot of liability in picking a choosing who can attend. Ripe for a discrimination lawsuit.

    DarthBueller ,

    Private schools can’t discriminate against protected classes but they can ABSOLUTELY use behavior as selection criteria. That said, sometimes what it takes is a totally different approach to discipline to reach “problem students,” approaches that aren’t often available in the public school context. Some respond well to iron-fisted authority, some respond well to restorative practices and circles, etc., while some need a ton of personal attention. Some “problem students” have problem parents, some don’t. It’s a shame that our public education system is as underfunded as it is, that school boards are political, that our public system is, by-and-large, one-size fits all. Charter schools and magnet schools provide some free public alternatives, but most progressives label them as destroying public school funding (at least, until they realize, like I did, that where I live, the standard public school system is a political shitshow and that sending my kid there would lead to conservative indoctrination). My local charter is chock full of incredibly passionate teachers that have an expansive view of the world. Of course I’d sign my kid up for their lottery.

    DarthBueller ,

    They do. They’re called Charter Schools, and letting folks online know that you’re going to send your kid to one is a great way to get downvoted. I have no interest in sending my kid to a rural public school system that is leading the charge against “woke,” whatever that is.

    DarthBueller ,

    My GF’s daughter is asking some of her teachers if she can put a voice recorder up front to record the teacher so she could learn. Because the students talk to each other over the teachers and literally curse out the teachers when they try to maintain order. I was shocked - 30 years ago, sure there were a couple of bad apples in some classes, but they’d get ejected if they failed to shut the fuck up after being told to shut the fuck up.

    veganpizza69 ,
    @veganpizza69@lemmy.world avatar

    bullies suck

    ComplexDonut ,

    I recommend the movie The Garden of Words

    autotldr Bot ,

    This is the best summary I could come up with:

    Teachers in South Korea have staged a mass walkout in protest at widespread harassment by overbearing parents and unruly students, which has led to some staff taking their own lives.

    But teachers are now demanding better protection for themselves amid growing outrage about teaching staff being mistreated, including being accused of child abuse for disciplining students.

    Many teachers took leave to attend the protests on Monday and some schools were reportedly temporarily closed, despite authorities declaring their actions illegal and threatening legal consequences.

    She was found dead at her school in Seoul in an apparent suicide after reportedly expressing anxiety over complaints from abusive parents.

    As of June, 100 schoolteachers had died by suicide in South Korea since 2018 – 57 of them taught at elementary schools, according to government data.

    President Yoon Suk Yeol ordered officials to “deeply bear in mind” the teachers’ protests and to do their utmost to protect their rights.

    The original article contains 483 words, the summary contains 154 words. Saved 68%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!

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