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Amid global criticism, Israel names 19 it says it killed in terror HQ at Gaza school

The IDF and Shin Bet security agency on Saturday night named 19 Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad terror operatives that it said it killed in an airstrike Saturday morning on a Hamas and Islamic Jihad command room at the Taba’een school in Gaza City.

Gsus4 ,
@Gsus4@mander.xyz avatar

How many HQs does hamas have?

Blue0x ,

How many schools, hospitals, and refugee camps are there in Gaza?

jonne ,

If it’s got walls and a roof it’s a Hamas HQ.

Threeme2189 OP ,

One less

mozz ,
@mozz@mbin.grits.dev avatar

raises hand

Question

Does that mean that if Likud has a headquarters near some civilian installation, that it's okay to blow it up and the civilians along with it?

(Not that I necessarily believe that Hamas had a command center next to all of the children, but even if they did, I don't think that automatically means that blowing up all the children in the school becomes okay)

count_dongulus ,

That’s…Hamas doctrine. They use civilians as human shields to avoid western attacks. Israel is notably different in their approach where they have basically decided to ignore human shield attempts in order to more effectively counter Hamas. Arguably, if it never works and Hamas fighters get killed anyway, Hamas might stop doing it because being amongst civilians means there are a lot of people who can inform on where Hamas militants are and what they’re doing. I suspect most civilians there support Hamas though, so it probably won’t change Hamas doctrine.

In Afghanistan by contrast, the US worked with various tribal elders who didn’t support al-Qaeda. This information allowed US forces to counter human shield tactics in those areas and fighters increasingly moved out to the remote regions so civilians couldn’t inform the US where they were.

small44 ,

It’s israel who’s been using palestinian as humanshield with videos to prove it

count_dongulus ,

Well, Hamas kidnapped several hundred civilians from a music festival to use as hostages before Israel militarily invaded Gaza. Or is that fake news?

SuckMyWang ,

That not helpful to the narrative that Hamas who are made up of Palestinians and supported by Palestinian people are pure and innocent

apfelwoiSchoppen ,
@apfelwoiSchoppen@lemmy.world avatar

Like that didn’t have historical context. Genocide already occurring next to a damn music festival.

mozz ,
@mozz@mbin.grits.dev avatar

Two whole groups of people can be bad at the same time

Hamas is horrifying villains, and Israel’s government and military are horrifying villains. There is room for all

small44 ,

The west bank is illegally occupied that mean every single west banker arrested by israel was kidnapped. We also know how palestinian prisoners are treated.

sirboozebum ,

You can tell this guy would rape Palestinian prisoners if he could.

mozz ,
@mozz@mbin.grits.dev avatar

The one time the UN looked in detail into this theory, it turned out it was crap. Hamas and civilians are sometimes next to each other just because they all live in Palestine, but the claimed thing where they would deliberately gather up some civilians and have them stand next to their installation, as if this would deter the Israelis or as if there was any shortage of non-artificial civilian casualties and so it was useful on any level to create some artificially, was it turned out a bunch of hooey.

Deceptichum ,
@Deceptichum@quokk.au avatar

The Israeli army has used Palestinian civilians as human shields, deliberately putting them in strategic places and in front of military targets, in an attempt to prevent attacks, fortify its forces in the Gaza Strip, facilitate its military operations and obstruct corresponding military operations. When conducting ground incursions and military attacks, the Israeli army purposefully used Palestinian civilians to guard its forces’ assembly points. It also made them step in front of military vehicles when it stormed homes and buildings it thought were booby-trapped.

reliefweb.int/…/israeli-armys-use-palestinian-civ…

Israel are a terrorist state.

Doorbook ,

You are gross because you repeat the same broken record. Hamas is using human shield, which is not true, and even then justifying murdering of children and deflecting the reality that the goal is a genocide of Palestinian youth !

jonne ,

If you want to apply the same ratios the IDF uses when it comes to civilian casualties, Hamas comes out way better on Oct 7. The majority of the hostages and victims were IDF personnel.

Threeme2189 OP ,

Where did you get that information?

theacharnian , (edited )
@theacharnian@lemmy.ca avatar

Wikipedia: 1,180 killed[18][c][d] 797 civilians,[e] including 36 children[f] 379 security forces[19]

For sources cited (they are legit), see …wikipedia.org/…/2023_Hamas-led_attack_on_Israel

Basically, the unacceptable and disgusting Hamas terror attack had a 32% legitimate targets to total hits ratio

Edit:

Or you can say that for every 1 legitimate target they also killed 2 illegitimate ones.

That of course does not mean that killing of legitimate targets cannot be a war crime (eg when they surrender).

But for the IDF to not be comparable to an abominable terror group, the ratios should be much different. And if we are to accept the “most moral army” thing, the ratio should be radically different (angel vs devil comparison).

Is it?

Threeme2189 OP ,

The Likud isn’t a military organization, that’s the IDF job. So… No.

BNE ,
@BNE@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Neither were the churches. Or the hospitals. Or the UN facilities. Or the Schools. Or the desalination plant. Or the tents filled with refugees. Or the graves of Australian soldiers. Or Palestinian civilians. Or the greenhouses.

Do you understand?

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Well that makes up for the other 81 dead.

Oh wait, no it doesn’t at all.

jonne ,

I think their AI targeting machine was programmed to accept a 1 to 100 ratio of Hamas vs civilians. I guess stuff like that makes them the most moral army in the world.

BeatTakeshi ,
@BeatTakeshi@lemmy.world avatar

Which is expected from the only democracy in this barbaric part of the world amirite

Gsus4 ,
@Gsus4@mander.xyz avatar

They are still a democracy until the fascists in power take over the judicial (bibi was trying) and cancel elections altogether. The left and the army want bibi to go. However, the government can’t fall, because bibi doesn’t want to go to jail and the ultraorthodox far-right will collapse government if there is a cease-fire…meanwhile Israel can’t be pressured from the outside because the US has bipartisan unconditional support and the EU is MIA…threats by Iran only embolden bibi to start a fight so they can destroy Iran’s nuclear tech…

Either the army rebels and demands new elections🙄…or someone amnisties bibi on condition of him calling new elections and going into exile😑 …I’m making shit up at this point…

BNE ,
@BNE@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Oh mate - that just would make them authoritarians. They’re already fascist.

RangerJosie ,

Whether there were any legitimate targets is entirely inconsequential. They’re after a body count. Nothing more. They just wanna stack corpses.

Threeme2189 OP , (edited )

As of now the Palestinian health authorities haven’t released the names of those 81 that are allegedly dead. Usually they don’t take long at all. In the meantime the IDF has released the 19 terrorists that totally weren’t hiding inside a school and are now dead. I assume most of those 81 don’t exist.

roboto ,

Are you okay?

Threeme2189 OP ,

Sure, you?

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Why do you need to see a list of dead people’s names as if people aren’t dying when there’s a war going on?

Threeme2189 OP ,

Hamas is known to inflate the number of dead and injured, cry wolf over and over and, in general, lie in order to make Israel and The IDF look bad. All while painting themselves as poor, innocent sheep.

The first thing they did was to accuse The IDF of killing over 100 children by dropping a 2 ton bomb in the middle of a school.

As we can see, neither the number of dead, the munitions used or the demography that was targeted (Hamas militants vs children) are factually correct.

We are, in fact, at war with a terrorist organization. Targeting them while trying to minimize civilian casualties is acceptable and is what’s actually happening.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

It’s “known” that Tim Walz quit the military so he couldn’t see combat, even though that isn’t true.

That’s the thing about stuff that is “known.”

filister ,

Like Israel already bombed almost all schools and universities in Gaza.

You can more easily rule over the uneducated, and I guess that’s the entire point.

Threeme2189 OP ,

The point is for Hamas terrorists to stop hiding amongst civilians. And hopefully to cease to exist altogether.

roboto ,

Everything can be Hamas if you just manifest it hard enough!

Doorbook ,

You are gross for justifying killing children with bombs instead of being a man and go there on ground to rescue your hostages.

BNE ,
@BNE@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Does someone have to spell out to you what an insurgency is? Or what asymmetric fighting is?

Is the IOF really so incompetent it has no access to the last 40 years of American imperialist strategy? Or can we drop the facade of logic and say this is about causing as much collateral damage/trauma as possible soas to cleanse Palestine of Palestinians.

The world knows a frontier war when we see one.

anas ,

One of the names Israel listed as a militant was an 8-year-old boy, Shaheen Mahmoud Ibrahim Abu Sharif, according to the hospital records. Two boys on the morgue’s list, age 10 and 14, had names that suggested they were sons of a man Israel identified as a slain militant, although he was not listed among the hospital’s dead.

apnews.com/…/israel-hamas-mideast-latest-06-07-20…

Doorbook ,

The name thing is so stupid. You could easily have 5 different people with the same exact name especially when there limited number of families in small area.

febra ,

Remember the Al Shifa hospital Hamas bunker HQ? It’s been almost a year since Israel took control of it and we still haven’t seen one shred of evidence. That’s how much credibility they have.

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