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The left-wing French coalition hoping to introduce 90% tax on rich

Multiple parties are jockeying for position in the aftermath of France’s seismic snap election. The leftist New Popular Front (NPF) insists its ideas should be implemented.

France’s left wing New Popular Front (NPF) - now the largest group in parliament - has called for a prime minister who will implement its ideas including a new wealth tax and petrol price controls.

The leftist alliance secured the most seats in the recent French elections but fell short of the 289 needed for a majority in the National Assembly, France’s lower house of parliament.

President Emmanuel Macron’s Together bloc came in second and Marine Le Pen’s far-right National Rally (RN) party finished third.

France’s parties are now jockeying for position and it’s unclear exactly how things will shake out, but the NPF has insisted it will implement its radical set of ideas.

StaySquared ,

lol it’s like France loves to choose violence every time.

uis ,

National sport. It’s fifth time now. If right would become too hard to fight against, then it will be sixth.

ArbitraryValue ,

The problem with high wealth taxes is the same as the problem with nationalizing privately-owned businesses. Even if you’re not worried about the people you tax fleeing the country (maybe they can’t because their investments aren’t mobile) you still have to worry about the fact that no one would build anything in France (even things not currently taxed) if there was good reason to think that France might suddenly decide to seize a large fraction of its value.

(High income taxes aren’t as big a deal because wealthy people can restructure their investments in order to avoid most of them, but I wonder whether the lost economic activity is actually worth more to the country than the money raised by the tax.)

avidamoeba , (edited )
@avidamoeba@lemmy.ca avatar

Most people who actually build everything do not have significant enough wealth to be affected. France doesn’t need someone with significant wealth in order to build something. France can provide the financial capital. We do know that public investment spurs private investment, but private investment isn’t strictly required.

Besides, we’ve already seen plenty examples of countries where people with significant wealth do not use it to build things in low tax destinations, especially where that low tax results in crumbling infrastructure and unstable labor and political climate.

I wonder whether the lost economic activity is actually worth more to the country than the money raised by the tax.

The answer is “yes” it’s worth it. Answering “no” puts you in a race to the bottom which leads to dysfunctional economy and eventually some sort of political upheaval, during which wealth and factories are exceedingly likely to be taken away anyways. See history for references. Also every EUR creates more economic activity at the bottom, than the top. The vast majority of the aggregate demand in richer economies isn’t comprised from the top 1%. The aggregate demand is what makes it worth making things and what drives significant private investment. Drive it down and there comes a point where no amount of tax cuts can offset it.

KevonLooney ,

Yeah, the person you responded to doesn’t understand investment. No one makes investments based on taxes. They make investments based on demand.

That’s why people build in NYC which has a million taxes and regulations, while tiny island tax havens have little investment beyond tourism. No, Austin is not the next Silicon Valley no matter how many tax breaks they give out. No, Atlanta is not the next Hollywood.

atro_city ,

https://www.tax-the-rich.eu/

Tax them. Tax the fuck out of their income and wealth.

Wanderer , (edited )

Petrol price controls is a terrible idea.

Why not subsidised (free) public transport, more cycle lanes more cycle parking, subsidised electric bikes, mandated EV charging.

BirdyBoogleBop ,

Because motorists hate anything that would help them. Why would you not want a separate bike lane as a motorist? It reduces congestion and gets the cyclist you hate so much off the road at the same time! It’s a win win!

CascadianGiraffe ,

In my experience, people tend to not want things that don’t benefit them directly.

If they don’t use the bike lanes they don’t want them to take up what could be a car lane they would use.

englislanguage ,

Lots of places in France are so remote and sparsely populated that public transport does not work there, at least not yet. It may or may not work once autonomous vehicles are fit for rural areas, but this may take a while.

Wanderer ,

Give them money then. Don’t give them cheap petrol.

maniii ,

Controlling Fossil Fuel prices can prevent other private entities from driving up inflation of commodities. It doesn’t have to be permanent, you could effect a set goal for 6 years, evaluate the results every 6 weeks, and tweak the pricing to prevent inflation/deflation cycles.

While you control the transport costs, you can now plan on how much energy it is consuming to do the logistics. Even setup renewables for the remote regions with medium to large capacity backups ( not just chemical batteries, but pumped storage and other practical solutions ).

You could increase the buffer between different urban zones, commercial, industrial, heavy commercial, dense residential, suburbian.

  • Energy storage densities.
  • Vehicular traffic densities.
  • Public transport frequencies.
  • Private traffic exemption zones.
  • Cycling/Pedestrian infrastructure.
  • Rent-controlled segmentation.
  • Recreational facilities , maintenance and usage.

All of these things can be measured, calculated, even funded by simply controlling the Fossil-fuel prices.

Imagine 10 or 20 stadiums with Extra-Large battery backups, only on game-nights the full bank would see utilization, rest of the time, half or even quarter of the load can be saved up for fluctuations. In emergencies the stadium provides power, safety, shelter and communal support.

So many things can be planned around transportation and logistics. Fossil-fuel literally drives a lot of the traffic. Measure, calculate and control that and you have a reliable method to make sensible common sense decisions. Transparent for all citizens to see the data and the correlation. Accountable for every cent.

Smk ,

The sad thing about high taxes like that is that it can penalize normal people with a normal, high income job. 400k won’t probably matter but in my experience, I have a high salary and I don’t have the time or even the money to hire a bunch of people to optimize my taxes in a tax free-heaven paradise.

Normal working people shouldn’t be taxed like crazy. Corporation is the thing we want to target. Large corporations. They have the mean to evade the laws.

The common man and women does not. Even if you have a small company, you do not have the time or the money to ignore the laws or taxes.

Capitalism isn’t made for big corporations. It is made for small company competing with each other. How the fuck the common Man is supposed to compete with Walmart? Like, what??

2484345508 ,

I think “rich” nowadays starts at $1m usd/y. No one really needs more than that. I think 90% is a bit steep, but that leaves a lot of wiggle room for negotiation.

avidamoeba ,
@avidamoeba@lemmy.ca avatar

It depends on cost of living. $1M in the US doesn’t buy the same as $1M in France.

2484345508 ,

€920,000 is just fine.

I assume each country would find that sweet spot for themselves. Either way that’s a crap ton of money. After that, taxes should be high.

shuzuko ,

Oh look, someone who doesn’t understand how progressive tax brackets work.

The 90% only kicks in on any money made over €400k, bro. That means they’re already making that 400k (less whatever the prior tax brackets are), and if they make €400,100 then only that extra €100 is taxed at 90%. This is so far from hurting “normal working people” that I can hardly believe your take isn’t a deliberate troll.

Smk ,

I know how tax brackets work. That’s exactly how you can optimize your taxes. You try to lower your income as much as possible with all the shenanigans that exists in the law. That’s what I’m saying.

If I do 410k and I don’t have time to optimize my shit, I’m penalized because very rich bro that owns company and shit can hire other bros to optimize their taxes.

HawlSera ,

Based

autotldr Bot ,

This is the best summary I could come up with:

France’s left wing New Popular Front (NPF) - now the largest group in parliament - has called for a prime minister who will implement its ideas including a new wealth tax and petrol price controls.

The leftist alliance secured the most seats in the recent French elections but fell short of the 289 needed for a majority in the National Assembly, France’s lower house of parliament.

President Emmanuel Macron’s Together bloc came in second and Marine Le Pen’s far-right National Rally (RN) party finished third.

France’s parties are now jockeying for position and it’s unclear exactly how things will shake out, but the NPF has insisted it will implement its radical set of ideas.

It is possible that President Macron - who called the snap election in a bid to counter the rise of the far-right - could seek a deal with more moderate elements of the NFP.

His government last week suspended a decree that would have diminished workers’ rights to unemployment benefits, which has been interpreted as a gesture toward the left.

The original article contains 388 words, the summary contains 174 words. Saved 55%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!

hungryphrog ,

hell yea

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