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At least 10 freed hostages were sexually abused in Hamas captivity, doctor says

At least 10 of the Israeli civilians released by Hamas, both men and women, were sexually assaulted or abused while in captivity, the Associated Press reported Wednesday.

In a report detailing allegations of severe and widespread sexual abuse by Hamas terrorists during their October 7 onslaught and later against hostages, a doctor who treated some of the 110 hostages released from captivity told the AP that at least 10 men and women among those freed were sexually assaulted or abused.

Original AP article that reports this where it’s buried in the last section right before the end of the article.

K1nsey6 ,
@K1nsey6@lemmy.world avatar

deleted_by_moderator

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    ShroOmeric ,

    Hamas and IDF are one and the same.

    BraveSirZaphod , (edited )
    @BraveSirZaphod@kbin.social avatar

    I'd love to see your evidence that the IDF regularly employs sexual abuse as a tactic. I'll wait.

    Edit: I'm interpreting each downvote as an admission that you couldn't find evidence, but I'd love to be proven wrong! We do care about facts and the truth here, no?

    OurTragicUniverse ,
    @OurTragicUniverse@kbin.social avatar

    Do the many reports by Palestinians who'd been released from isreali prisons not count?

    Oh wait I forgot, you're a zionist, you don't believe Palestinians are even human.

    The IDF colonel rabbi has permitted the raping non-human animals by IDF soldiers, but that only counts as bestiality to you though, right?

    https://electronicintifada.net/content/rabbi-who-urged-gaza-genocide-excused-rape-soldiers/21566

    BraveSirZaphod , (edited )
    @BraveSirZaphod@kbin.social avatar

    My guy, do you even hear yourself? I don't think Palestinians are human? I'd think that their sexual assault is acceptable? I doubt you'll believe me, but I don't in fact, think that. Congratulations on your excellent straw man construction skills though.

    That first rabbi, Shmuel Eliyahu, is scum, something that has been acknowledged by plenty of people in and out of Israel. The US has revoked his visa privileges. When he tried to run for a country-wide Chief Rabbi position, the Israeli Attorney General told him to abandon it because of his offensive statements. Members of the Israeli parliament moved to have him disqualified. He lost an election for Chief Rabbi of Jerusalem, which is a relatively conservative city itself. The second guy, Krim, is also shitty, though he did apparently state that his remarks were not meant to apply to the modern era. There was also a lot of domestic Israeli opposition against him, including from former PM Yair Lapid.

    But beyond these two being living excrement, and ignoring that I could very easily find plenty of examples of Imams saying the exact same thing with an Islamic twist, that isn't what I asked for. I asked for evidence that the IDF regularly employs sexual abuse as a tactic, and you've given me two hyper conservative rabbis saying that they personally would excuse it. Given that their word has precisely zero legal meaning in the Israeli justice system, I don't see that as particularly relevant to the question I asked.

    ShittyBeatlesFCPres ,

    Does this count? www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67581915reuters.com/…/un-rights-office-seriously-concerne…

    It obviously isn’t necessarily a battlefield tactic but I don’t care. No one with an adult’s understanding of the world who has condemned Israel’s response didn’t also condemn Hamas after Oct 7. This war is not Hamas v. Israel to most people. It’s far right nationalists fighting each other again and again v. Civilians trying to live there lives.

    Hamas and Likud/settlers should go out to some empty desert somewhere and kill each other there so normal, sane people can work towards peace.

    BraveSirZaphod ,
    @BraveSirZaphod@kbin.social avatar

    No one with an adult’s understanding of the world who has condemned Israel’s response didn’t also condemn Hamas after Oct 7.

    This doesn't appear to actually be true, unless you mean to imply that a majority of Palestinians don't have an adult's understanding of the word. Don't get me wrong though, this in no ways provides just cause to target civilians.

    https://www.awrad.org/files/server/polls/polls2023/Public%20Opinion%20Poll%20-%20Gaza%20War%202023.pdf

    The majority of (59%) strongly supported or (16%) supported to some extent the October 7 attacks carried by the Hamas-led factions, while 16% supported to some extent [sic]. 11% reported that they neither supported nor opposed the attack, while 13% expressed opposition to the attacks. Strong support for the attacks was notably higher among Palestinians in the West Bank (68%) as compared to Gaza (47%).

    That said, I'm not surprised conditions in Israeli prisons are very poor, though they're unfortunately not remotely alone in the global context in that. It's also worth noting that the Israel Prison Service is independent from the IDF and operates under a completely different ministry. I'm not saying that it's not horrendous, because it is, but it doesn't rise to the same severity in my mind. I do genuinely appreciate you providing an actual source though; I certainly don't think Israel is any angel.

    ShittyBeatlesFCPres ,

    I obviously don’t think Israelis in Hamas’s care get better treatment than Palestinians get in Israel’s care. There’s new atrocities and victim testimony reported daily. It just seems like this whole thing is a horror show and to condemn it all is the only reasonable response.

    During the prisoner exchange, it was reported that Palestinians can be held for 6 months in Israeli prisons and then, if they’re tried, face a military court with a 97% conviction rate. It’s not as horrible as grabbing people off kibbutzim but it’s not something to brag about. It’s easy to end up disgusted by it all and respond emotionally to anyone who takes a firm side.

    I’ve been personally just trying to be on team civilian and find a way to have empathy for everyone not fighting. It’s natural to pick a side but war usually just brings out the worst in people at the worst possible time.

    TowardsTheFuture ,

    I mean, a majority of Palestinians are not adults. But also, being in the position of die and give us your land and your options are: die or fight back. Most people are probably gonna be on the fight back side, even if those who fought back didn’t do the greatest of things. Especially where you likely are not being told all the things they did outside of “we are fighting for your freedom.”

    Not like most people who supported 90% of wars America has been in know everything America did in those wars.

    PhlubbaDubba ,

    The IDF’s chief Rabbi literally issued a statement directing soldiers to do it but ok bub

    BraveSirZaphod ,
    @BraveSirZaphod@kbin.social avatar

    In 2002, which he then retracted.

    He is a piece of shit, to be clear, but his words also have exactly zero legal relevance in the IDF, so, while certainly objectionable, that isn't what I actually asked for, which was evidence the IDF actually regularly performs sexual violence.

    I'm sure Hamas' religious authorities aren't exactly spreading love love peace peace either, not that that matters.

    blahsay ,

    The propaganda teams on here are pretty prolific. There’s about 10 accounts that brigade anything not worshipping Hamas.

    You’ll find once actual people see your comments it will creep back up

    interceder270 ,

    Why are you only asking for evidence about the IDF?

    All I’ve seen were testimonies from Israelis about Hamas. History has shown that Israelis have no problem lying to make their enemies look bad.

    BraveSirZaphod ,
    @BraveSirZaphod@kbin.social avatar

    Because the parent comment explicitly mentioned the IDF?

    If you're going to discard any evidence coming from Israelis, you're not actually open to any evidence that might challenge your views at all. Which is fine, but don't pretend to be looking for a rational discussion then.

    interceder270 ,

    Because the parent comment explicitly mentioned the IDF?

    He said “Hamas and IDF are one and the same.” Why do you only ask for evidence about the IDF?

    If you’re going to discard any evidence coming from Israelis

    The only “evidence” I’ve seen about Hamas rape cases are testimonies. They probably happened, but every news article has only cited testimonies. Have you seen evidence of Hamas committing rape that isn’t just a testimony?

    I also hold the IDF to the same standard and don’t take Hamas’ claims against them at face value. Both could be lying or telling the truth, but objective evidence leaves way less room for ambiguity and manipulation.

    NAXLAB ,

    Nope, the down votes are for ignorance

    haaretz.com/…/0000018b-530f-d1d7-ab8b-7f5fca1d000…

    BraveSirZaphod ,
    @BraveSirZaphod@kbin.social avatar

    That is sickening, but I'd point you to what's right below that headline.

    The army has removed the commanding officer of the unit and opened an investigation

    So some asshole commander committed atrocities and is facing consequences for it, because this is not an accepted practice in the IDF, which was the claim I'm asking for evidence of. Do you think Hamas officials punished anyone involved in the October 7th attacks who committed sexual assault or attacked civilians?

    NAXLAB ,

    At face value I do get where you’re coming from, but this is standard practice, and I’m happy to provide the evidence you are looking for, because it’s important that the truth comes out and I respect you for asking for it.

    theguardian.com/…/rachel-corrie-verdict-exposes-i…

    IDF officers and investigators intentionally cover up murders and abuse, even when leaked internal correspondences admit the killings were totally unjustified and offer alternative explanations to be given to the press.

    The Guardian’s correspondent in Israel, Chris McGreal, wrote about a conversation he had with the Israeli military commander in southern Gaza at the time, Colonel Pinhas “Pinky” Zuaretz. The Colonel both admits that his troops murder children for no reason, and implies it’s necessary to prevent the Holocaust from happening again. In court, he claimed the whole of southern Gaza was a combat zone and anyone who entered parts of it had made themselves a target.

    Also from the article: “An Israeli army officer [who] emptied the magazine of his automatic rifle into a 13-year-old Palestinian girl, Iman al-Hams, and then said he would have done the same even if she had been three years old, was cleared by a military court. [The girl] was shot and wounded after crossing the invisible red line around an Israeli military base in Rafah, but she was never any closer than 100 yards. The officer then left the base in order to “confirm the kill” by pumping the wounded girl full of bullets. An Israeli military investigation concluded he had acted properly.”

    BraveSirZaphod ,
    @BraveSirZaphod@kbin.social avatar

    Genuinely, thank you for this. This actually helps me build a more informed perspective and I do appreciate it.

    tsonfeir ,
    @tsonfeir@lemm.ee avatar

    The only people who are suffering are the civilians who don’t give a shit about this holy-land-grab-war, and are dying because two insane factions are being sold weapons.

    floofloof ,

    These two were sitting right next to each other this morning:

    https://lemmy.ca/pictrs/image/dae70f4f-e7cb-4352-8ba8-95bec9566531.png

    NOT_RICK ,
    @NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

    ”The common people pray for rain, healthy children, and a summer that never ends," Ser Jorah told her. “It is no matter to them if the high lords play their game of thrones, so long as they are left in peace.” He gave a shrug. "They never are.”

    Life imitates art, sadly

    vintageballs ,

    More like JRRM captured a fundamental reality

    NOT_RICK ,
    @NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

    Yeah that’s fair. Good art holds up a mirror in our faces.

    Jax ,

    JRRM? Is this a gif joke?

    RedAggroBest ,

    He’s actually Jorge RR Martin didn’t you know?

    vintageballs ,

    Yeeeeah totally intentional

    Few people know the actual spelling is Jorge

    BraveSirZaphod , (edited )
    @BraveSirZaphod@kbin.social avatar

    I wish this were true - that most people don't care about this and just want peace - but I think evidence is continuing to show that the reality is a bit messier. Here's some recent polling data from Gaza and the West Bank (though it should be strongly noted that polling in these places is very hard)

    https://www.awrad.org/files/server/polls/polls2023/Public%20Opinion%20Poll%20-%20Gaza%20War%202023.pdf

    the majority of (59%) strongly supported or (16%) supported to some extent the October 7 attacks carried by the Hamas-led factions, while 16% supported to some extent [sic]. 11% reported that they neither supported nor opposed the attack, while 13% expressed opposition to the attacks. Strong support for the attacks was notably higher among Palestinians in the West Bank (68%) as compared to Gaza (47%).

    The most positively appraised of all actors were the Al Qassam Brigades, Islamic Jihad, Al Aqsa Brigades, and Hamas.

    It does feel disturbing to me that such a small number of Palestinians looked at the October 7th massacres and felt that they were wrong. It's tempting to believe that most people abhor violence and support non-violent paths towards peace, but I don't think the evidence really shows that.

    I don't know what polling looks like in Israel, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's equally depressing. I think the main takeaway is that no one is really interested in moving towards peace.

    chunkystyles ,

    If the two countries had parity and equality, that polling would suggest that the Palestinian citizens are awful.

    But I’m our reality where Palestine is an open air person where the majority of people are children because the life expectancy is so poor, that kinda changes things, doesn’t it?

    BraveSirZaphod ,
    @BraveSirZaphod@kbin.social avatar

    I'd personally say no. Perhaps this is a privileged mindset, but I don't think there are any circumstances that justify the intentional murder, torture, and rape of random civilians.

    I can certainly understand how that mindset would evolve given the circumstances - living your whole life oppressed by a foreign government with no real opportunities could easily lead you to dehumanize anyone associated with that nation - but it doesn't excuse it. I'm sure plenty of Jews after the Holocaust wanted to murder every German they saw, and again, while I would understand that mindset, it wouldn't excuse the behavior.

    And even on a pragmatic level, devolving down into our baser instincts just means that whoever has the most guns wins, and that certainly isn't the Palestinians. Whether it's just or not - and I'd generally say it's not - there exists no path of violent resistance that leads to an independent thriving Palestine, no matter or fair or unfair one might think that is.

    chunkystyles ,

    Your conflating hating other people with actually murdering them. The poll shows hatred, not murder.

    BraveSirZaphod ,
    @BraveSirZaphod@kbin.social avatar

    Well, over a thousand Israelis were murdered two months ago, and this poll is expressing support for that.

    So it's, at best, support for murder.

    filister ,

    And over 17000 Palestinians were murdered as a result. What’s your point? And mind you the situation for Palestinians in Gaza is rather grim, if not clearly horrific, with their homes turned into rubles not having access to food, water, electricity, not functioning health care system, living in makeshift tents with no sanitary conditions. Can you put yourself in their shoes? How would you feel and what your opinion would be towards the reason of all this suffering.

    Perhaps people in Gaza are truly desperate, and you can’t really expect much common sense from desperate people who are pushed to a corner.

    The only way to fight terrorism is to give those people hope, a better future, fair treatment. Slaughtering them and dehumanizing them is like trying to put out a fire with fuel.

    And it is a bit naive to think that the goal of Israel is only to get rid of Hamas. By now it is pretty obvious that Israel cares very little about the human suffering of those people. The goal is to turn the whole of Gaza into an inhabitable desert.

    blahsay ,

    Interesting stats 👍

    tsonfeir ,
    @tsonfeir@lemm.ee avatar

    If I put a gun to your head, you’ll “poll” however I want you to.

    BraveSirZaphod ,
    @BraveSirZaphod@kbin.social avatar

    The pollster is an Palestinian group based in Ramallah.

    Keeponstalin ,

    Sharing images of the polling for more context: https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/e9f94acc-8654-4358-a1e9-0c7413afe59a.jpeghttps://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/448c8a1a-d94f-4708-8eb2-2cc6bbbe7d6b.jpeghttps://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/79088917-8c57-4b62-afb6-d3c947bd6bdb.jpeghttps://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/cfe25a0a-8ee8-4a8d-8af0-52103657e32f.jpeg

    BraveSirZaphod ,
    @BraveSirZaphod@kbin.social avatar

    Thanks for that. Looking again, there's one interesting stat there that I missed the first time, that only 14% support a Hamas-led government after the war, while most support a coalition with the Palestinian Authority. The PA is largely useless, but what they are not is terrorists, so that's a small hopeful sign.

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