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LainTrain ,

JSO got what, 6 years? Let’s see what the rightoid loons get.

TheGrandNagus ,

5 years for one of them IIRC, although their case was more complicated than Reddit/Lemmy comments often state. Reddit/Lemmy often says they got 5 years for peacefully protesting, however:

  • the protestors affected emergency services
  • the protesters were repeat offenders
  • the protesters said they are glad they broke the law
  • the protester who got the longest sentence was in contempt of court and got arrested again during the court case
  • the protestor who got the longest sentence was continually rude to the judge and constantly tried to create drama in the courtroom, generally a terrible idea.
  • the protester who got the longest sentence said he would commit more crimes, he would never stop, and he couldn’t wait to get out there and commit more crimes.
  • the protestor who got the longest sentence said, about an ambulance that got stuck in the traffic jam that he conspired to cause, that he’d rather the patients in ambulances die than let a single ambulance through

5 years is a long time, but at the same time, wtf did he expect to happen? The judge to say “oh cool mate, go on now, leave my courtroom and commit more crimes. Boys will be boys! What a little scallywag!”? He left the judge with little choice but to come down on him hard.

Goes without saying that I want the thugs arrested, of course. But let’s not misrepresent the JSO trial.

E: People you can disagree with the length of the sentence, or think that the protestors are good, without trying to suppress the facts of the court case. Even when I disagree with something, I don’t go around peddling misinformation about it.

LainTrain ,

the protestors affected emergency services

Cars affect them way more, so if anything JSO would prolly in the long term make things better for them.

the protesters were repeat offenders

Based.

the protesters said they are glad they broke the law

Based.

the protester who got the longest sentence was in contempt of court and got arrested again during the court case

Based.

the protestor who got the longest sentence was continually rude to the judge and constantly tried to create drama in the courtroom, generally a terrible idea.

Based. Being a judge prosecuting fucking climate protestors is the real crime.

the protester who got the longest sentence said he would commit more crimes, he would never stop, and he couldn’t wait to get out there and commit more crimes.

Unreal, I don’t even know the guy but have enormous respect for him. Thanks for sharing this.

echodot ,

Saying Based isn’t a counter argument. Please come up with some of your own opinions and demonstrate how you arrived at them or shut the hell up.

You’re as bad as the thugs, you let somebody else tell you what your opinion should be and you don’t actually know why they’re your opinions, because you’ve just absorbed them from the ether, and did not arrive at them on your own, so you just shout at people without any idea about why you’re angry at them. Grow up.

LainTrain ,

Idk what to say? Corporate terrorists who shit up our planet from oil execs to their political lackeys all deserve to be put to the sword. Someone bringing attention to that in a legal system that serves capitalist interests in such a brazen, dedicated fashion is a hero of mine.

This is my original opinion I’ve come to over many years from being a dedicated establishment defender concerned with “civility” and broadly unaware of the concept of negative peace that serves the purpose of denying justice to those affected, then to moderate “shit sucks but neither side is right” to now radicalized, and I know exactly why my opinion is that way - it is witnessing the collapse of this country in real time that got me to open my eyes to the fact things here are run by thieves who steal from us all tangibly and less so, from the landleeches who leech off labour when we have enough excess housing to house everyone right now, literally solving homelessness, to the oil execs who leech off our very planet - a planet that it’s very hard to argue does not belong to all of us, and when the system fails to account for this it is a failed system, and thus direct action outside of the justice system run by and for those same thieves is almost always justified - nay - morally required.

echodot ,

Personal opinion isn’t relevant here, that’s what you do not sit here to understand.

The sentence they got was based on the things they did and the way they conducted themselves in the courtroom. You cannot complain that their sentences were too long without also accepting that they hold some responsibility for the length of their own sentences. Whether you believe that’s moral or not is utterly irrelevant.

LainTrain ,

Actually it’s the only thing that’s relevant. In your opinion legal = good and well-behaved=good, but not in mine.

If a system like ours denies change and justice, then it doesn’t deserve people cowtowing before it.

Real justice is about the why, and the broader context as much as it is about the what. A ransomware gang in Russia stealing from grandma is obviously not the same as a single mother stealing formula to feed her child. By your logic If the mother is upset and doesn’t think highly of the system, she gets a stricter sentence. Needless to say - this is absurd.

I feel like this is morality 101, no offense. I doubt you actually believe that context shouldn’t matter, but that’s how it comes off.

Needless to say, I think the sentencing should take into account not how you ‘conducted yourself’ but why you did what you did. I’ll agree that we disagree.

echodot ,

No it’s not my opinion. Your problem is that you think that everyone is fighting you, well they are not, we’re just pointing out that personal beliefs are not the same as legal truth. I just don’t like disingenuous people who seem to think that because you want something to be the case it actually is the case.

Whether I like the law or not or whether you like the law or not isn’t relevant. You can’t break the law and expect anything other than prison time and fines, just because you think you have some moral authority. It’s not my problem if you don’t like it.

TheGrandNagus ,

Cars affect them way more, so if anything JSO would prolly in the long term make things better for them.

You can’t be serious. People purposely blocking a motorway that’s critical for emergency services are less at fault for blocking emergency services than a person in a car or bus in your eyes?

Based.

That’s not a legal defence.

Based.

Dunno why you replied to the same line twice, but see above.

the protesters said they are glad they broke the law

See above.

Based.

See above. And no, being in contempt of court isn’t based.

Based. Being a judge prosecuting fucking climate protestors is the real crime.

No it’s not based. It’s stupidity. Insulting the judge handling your trial is moronic.

And no, judges prosecuting people guilty of committing a crime, whether you believe the charge is worthy or not, isn’t a crime. It’s their job.

Unreal, I don’t even know the guy but have enormous respect for him. Thanks for sharing this.

Funny. I feel the opposite. I was sympathetic to him before I looked into the facts and saw how much of a moron he is. The disservice he’s doing to the climate debate is immense. I hope he has a good think about his actions while he’s in prison.

He literally said he wanted people in ambulances to die due to the traffic jam FFS.

LainTrain ,

And no, being in contempt of court isn’t based.

1984

echodot ,

My God you are utterly pathetic individual. You actually think that your personal opinion is the same as objective reality. Either you have an ego the size of a small continent or you don’t actually understand what you’re talking about.

I honestly suspect it to be the latter, your response to me was basically copy paste eco warrior bullshit. None of it has any real recognition of the challenges faced by changing, or any real desire to moderate or come to some kind of mutual agreement. All it is is pronouncements with your nose in the air firmly telling everybody how utterly scummy they are they don’t follow your belief structure.

LainTrain ,

I don’t actually really care that much about the climate and I’m pro-natural-exploitation so long as the spoils of it are shared evenly amongst the proletariat (present and future, so including some degree of preservation), but if some pathetic centrist system-defender wants to label me an eco-warrior I’ll wear it with pride.

challenges faced by changing

Aww, profits go down? What a shame. Degrowth would be such a bad thing what will I do without the AI crypto meta verse being made in 2 years :(

any real desire to moderate or come to some kind of mutual agreement.

A mutual agreement between a rapist and a victim of rape is not a compromise of a rapist being allowed to “rape a little bit” lmao it is an acknowledgment that one party is 100% right, and the other is absolutely fucking wrong.

All it is is pronouncements with your nose in the air firmly telling everybody how utterly scummy they are they don’t follow your belief structure.

I don’t really care if you don’t believe this shit, I think you should consider it, my zealous advocatry for one side I believe is right is not a moral condemnation of opposing and especially not more moderate-but-broadly-in-agreement individuals, it is a condemnation of the system.

The le evil socialists that comprise little more than half of Gen-Z in the UK aren’t out to get some slobby middle manager’s Toyota Camry, he’s just part of a system, they’re there for those who embezzled billions to actively enforce the system.

echodot ,

A mutual agreement between a rapist and a victim of rape is not a compromise

If you have to descend to erroneously equating the situation to rape then you’ve lost the argument. You cannot rely on an emotional response to an intellectual exercise it’s not only dishonest it’s also unhelpful.

The world is in the state it is in not because some evil person decided to be evil one day but because of a natural development of the human condition. We can’t all go back to living in caves that wouldn’t work, we can’t sustain the current population sitting around campfires and singing camping songs. So unless your advocating for mass genocide I don’t really understand what you want here.

I would prefer to live in the real world and be a realist, I want the world to improve, but I don’t believe that the way to improve it is to be an unmoving obstacle. Doing that is counterproductive to your own argument anyway because everyone will just get fed up with you and eventually ignore you.

TheGrandNagus ,

“Breaking the law and getting arrested for it is literally 1984”

Do you even know what being in Contempt of Court is?

Do you think, for example, that not turning up to court shouldn’t go against you? Or purposely trying to derail the trial? Or defying court orders? Or disclosing details of an ongoing court case, risking the entire case being dismissed? We have laws for a reason.

I suppose you must love people like Tommy Robinson, who has on multiple occasions been charged with contempt of court? Is he “based”? Is it Orwellian to bring criminal charges to him?

You surely must be trolling.

LainTrain ,

I agree with Tommy Robinson being charged in contempt of court because I disagree with his views.

I disagree with JSO members being charged in contempt of court because I agree with their views.

Because the former’s views are racist vile shit, but the latter’s views are well intentioned calls for reform.

The two are in fact, not equal, and treating them as such, judging them only by how well they play the system we all know is designed to benefit the status quo is putting that system onto a pedestal of perfection and ignoring all nuance.

TheGrandNagus ,

I agree with Tommy Robinson being charged in contempt of court because I disagree with his views.

That’s not how courts work, and it’s not how laws work. It shouldn’t be done based on feels.

I disagree with JSO members being charged in contempt of court because I agree with their views.

They explicitly said they would rather people in ambulances die than let them through. Do you agree with that?

Because the former’s views are racist vile shit, but the latter’s views are well intentioned calls for reform.

Killing people is fine?

The two are in fact, not equal, and treating them as such, judging them only by how well they play the system we all know is designed to benefit the status quo is putting that system onto a pedestal of perfection and ignoring all nuance.

You can’t just say “no the law shouldn’t apply to you because I like you”. That sounds like the way some fascist shithole would be run.

LainTrain ,

That’s not how courts work, and it’s not how laws work. It shouldn’t be done based on feels.

Fee-fees != Morality, context, nuance

They explicitly said they would rather people in ambulances die than let them through. Do you agree with that?

It’s a shitty situation. They are not being listened to, what are they supposed to do? Idk I’m not them I can’t unpack all that, but somehow I doubt they have genuine contempt for random people in ambulances.

Killing people is fine?

Depends. In self-defense? Yeah, absolutely. Are they Nazis? Yeah go for it man. Landlords? Geez wait for me! Oil execs? Wait wait, slow down, let me grab my S&W.

You can’t just say “no the law shouldn’t apply to you because I like you”. That sounds like the way some fascist shithole would be run.

Well we are in a fascist shithole and it’s not run like that so checkmate redditor.

The problem is that when you let only bad guys use hypocrisy, they win.

TheGrandNagus ,

It is fee-fees.

Christ. Imagine defending someone who says that they’d rather let people in ambulances die than let them through. Yikes. I can’t even comprehend being that hateful.

Depends. In self-defense? Yeah, absolutely. Are they Nazis? Yeah go for it man. Landlords? Geez wait for me! Oil execs? Wait wait, slow down, let me grab my S&W.

Nope. People in ambulances needing hospital treatment.

Well we are in a fascist shithole and it’s not run like that so checkmate redditor.

Yawn.

People being charged for crimes they’ve committed isn’t fascism.

The mother of the person who was jailed said it was wrong as it meant her son wouldn’t be able to attend a wedding in America, which was retweeted by JSO. Absolutely hilarious for two reasons:

  • they think they (because they’re wealthy posh twats) shouldn’t be interrupted or made late for things, yet they are happy to make others late for things (such as being rushed to fucking A&E)
  • they are fine with rich people getting flights, but not poor people

We’re done here. I don’t want to talk to someone who thinks leaving people to die needlessly in ambulances is a good thing. If that really is what gets your dick hard, you need help.

YeetPics ,
@YeetPics@mander.xyz avatar

Well if he was rude he should clearly get excommunicated if not defenestrated.

/s

TheGrandNagus ,

Don’t be such a fuckwit.

I personally believe deliberately blocking ambulances, then saying you want the patient inside to die to be a bad thing.

But if you want them to die as well, then you’re welcome to that opinion.

Streamwave ,

There’s a lot of simmering anger, resentment and frustration in many communities in this country. It’s been building for years. The stabbing of those poor girls at their dance class by the son of Rwandan immigrants seems to have been the straw that broke the camel’s back.

This isn’t just the EDL (an organisation which disbanded more than a decade ago), this is thousands of English people who are furious. We can try and understand the sources of that fury, and then begin the work to resolve it, or we’ll keep getting these sorts of horrid outbreaks of ugly violence.

jabjoe ,
@jabjoe@feddit.uk avatar

We don’t know the details yet. But, if this stabber was a white kid, we’d all be talking about mental health. Non-white kids of immigrants can also have mental health issue. But the worse of the country jump straight to racism, blaming the culture of the immigrant. If this lad grew up here, he has been surrounded by our culture. If there is mental health issues, it’s our fault it wasn’t caught in time. If he went mental for cultural reasons, we can’t wash our hands of that either. If we want assimilation, we can’t other people.

Annoyed_Crabby ,

Woah. You okay there UK? Hang in there man, and stay safe.

ThePyroPython ,

Eh, we could be doing better, but at least now we’ve got a sensible sounding government.

Don’t worry about this, race riots happen every 20 years or so. The previous one was much bigger.

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