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The Google antitrust ruling could be an existential threat to the future of Firefox | Financials show 86% of Mozilla's revenue came from the agreement keeping Google as Firefox's default search engine

Mozilla has a close relationship with Google, as most of Firefox’s revenue comes from the agreement keeping Google as the browser’s default search engine. However, the search giant is now officially a monopoly, and a future court decision could have an unprecedented impact on Mozilla’s ability to keep things “business as usual.”

United States District Judge Amit Mehta found Google guilty of building a monopolistic position in web search. The Mountain View corporation spent billions of dollars becoming the leading search provider for computing platforms and web browsers on PC and mobile devices.

Most of the $21 billion spent went to Apple in exchange for setting Google as the default search engine on iPhone, iPad, and Mac systems. The judge will now need to decide on a penalty for the company’s actions, including the potential of forcing Google to stop payments to its search “partners completely,” which could have dire consequences for smaller companies like Mozilla.

Its most recent financials show Mozilla gets $510 million out of its $593 million in total revenue from its Google partnership. This precarious financial position is a side effect of its deal with Alphabet, which made Google the search engine default for newer Firefox installations.

The open-source web browser has experienced a steady market share decline over the past few years. Meanwhile, Mozilla management was paid millions to develop a new “vision” of a theoretical future with AI chatbots. Mozilla Corporation, the wholly owned subsidiary of Mozilla Foundation managing Firefox development, could find itself in a severe struggle for revenue if Google’s money suddenly dried up.

ocassionallyaduck ,

Chrome is the existential threat to FireFox.

Chrome is… Also Google.

Break up Google, make chrome competitive, and then we’ll stop seeing advertisers own the web standards and implement things like AVIF and ManifestV3, and instead embrace open solutions that favor users.

The JPEG XL vs AVIF thing still makes me mad.

umbrella ,
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

quite a good chunk of that goes to their ceo anyway.

vanderbilt ,
@vanderbilt@lemmy.world avatar

I am livid over her absolutely disgraceful management over Moz. When electron was building a de facto monopoly of Chromium on the desktop she made no moves to produces equivalent tooling. While Node grew into a behemoth she totally ignored it. The only thing that has come out of Moz in the last decade that mattered was Rust, and she’s already fired the Rust team. She is poison and serves only to suck up a salary that could fund development.

Mozilla needs its wake up call and to start being the underdog that makes something worth doing. With Manifest V3 and the anti-trust case on the horizon they have a fork in the road that will define what becomes of them. Hopefully she can make one good decision and it’ll be the right one.

umbrella ,
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

thats ceos for ya.

i doubt they will escape from going through some bad times.

Lets_Eat_Grandma ,

This isn’t a new threat. This was always a threat.

The things that give google money are the reasons why we don’t want to use google. The things that firefox does to get money are basically just giving google the thing that makes them money.

sparkle ,

Tax/fine Google more and give the profits to competitors like Mozilla (as long as those competitors use the funds for Firefox)

BobGnarley ,

Sounds too European for the “land of the free”

sparkle ,

The land of the free? Whoever told you that is your enemy!

MigratingtoLemmy ,

Will this make ladybird our only hope overnight?

todd_bonzalez ,
@todd_bonzalez@lemm.ee avatar

If Mozilla collapses for being too deeply intertwined with Google, I won’t mourn them.

Firefox is open source. We probably need to pass the torch to another maintainer anyway. Mozilla has been betraying their original mission a lot.

prof_wafflez ,

I’ll mourn them but now knowing this gross imbalance of funding it’s frustrating that CEO still has a job - and they will surely get a golden parachute while every other employee will just lose their job.

Petter1 ,

I hope some governments and EU see the need of a foss browser engine alternative from a non-profit and stuff some Money there

KingOfTheCouch ,
Buddahriffic ,

Specifically separate the browser side from the advertiser side. Get rid of that conflict of interest.

Sorgan71 ,

good. Maybe firefox will die like it should have long ago

mlg ,
@mlg@lemmy.world avatar

Almost hoping this somehow causes browser support to fracture again.

It would be a pain for developers, but firefox and chrome using a gig of ram to view webpages and play videos is horrendous even with isolated design.

Also because I’m tired of google dictating the www by being a monopoly. It’s 2024 and jpegxl is being treated as ransomware as if enabling a god damn image format is too hard for web browsers. HTTP3/QUIC was 100% google’s invention that they just threw onto the web because no one else is developing this standard anymore. Manifest v3 is an explicit attempt to limit user control over web content. They even cornered the market along with Microsoft using gmail.

sparkle , (edited )

It would be a pain for developers, but firefox and chrome using a gig of ram to view webpages and play videos is horrendous even with isolated design.

That can’t be helped. Hard to explain well without knowing how much CS you’re familiar with, but basically in order to guarantee security/user safety you have to sandbox each tab (basically running an entirely separate container program for each tab which constantly checks for illegal memory access to prevent it from being exploited), all separately running their own interpreters for javascript/typescript, HTML, CSS, all of which are very resource intensive (mainly javascript/typescript). There’s not really any getting around this, no matter how well you design your browser.

Now, theoretically, with the growing popularity/advances in WebAssembly, and increase in usage of frameworks/graphics APIs like WebGPU, you could completely get rid of that sandboxing and completely get rid of the extremely slow javascript and html/css, in favor of completely using safe, compiled Rust programs. There’s active research using versions of WASM which only accept completely safe code (mainly safe Rust code) so using memory bugs generated from user error to access data in different tabs becomes impossible (aside from potential unaddressed bugs in Rust itself obviously) and you don’t need to sandbox each tab – the program practically sandboxes itself. Then you could potentially have browsers with thousands of tabs perform perfectly fine, assuming each of the websites is programmed competently.

But that’s not going to happen, because billions of users rely on HTML/CSS and JS, and it’s not pretty to transition away from. Getting rid of it would be like getting rid of pointy shoes, or getting rid of US Customary Units in the US, it’s just not happening no matter how much benefit it would bring to users. It’s not so much of a browser company issue as it is everyone ever would complain and potentially trillions of dollars of damage would be done. Also frontend web devs can barely punch out a “hello world” program in JS so there’s no way most of them are gonna be touching Rust or Haskell or something.

ipkpjersi ,

Also frontend web devs can barely punch out a “hello world” program in JS so there’s no way most of them are gonna be touching Rust or Haskell or something.

This is kind of true, but at the same time, I’ve also seen some pretty talented front-end devs fwiw.

ipkpjersi ,

If this hurts Firefox more than it hurts Chrome, that’s probably not a good thing for the health of the Internet. Google running the Internet unchecked would be bad for everyone.

ulkesh ,
@ulkesh@lemmy.world avatar

So Mozilla will find other forms of funding. That’s how this works.

FerroMeow ,
@FerroMeow@lemmy.world avatar

I guess they read the room and this is why they started delving into the ad business

Mwa ,
@Mwa@thelemmy.club avatar

ngl they can still get funding from donations but it only makes a little bit of their revenue

OldWoodFrame ,

On the other hand, might also be good for Firefox to not be 86% funded by the maker of its top rival (Chrome).

Johnmannesca ,
@Johnmannesca@lemmy.world avatar

Right? Great knowing there wouldn’t be an adblock killswitch waiting for us all like the sword of damocles

cupcakezealot ,
@cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

if you only do a monthly donation of $5 a month that’s still $60 a year and i urge you do do it. i have a recurring donation for firefox, thunderbird, and wikipedia because i believe they’re essential to the internet.

800XL ,

don’t forget archive.org!

WhatAmLemmy ,

I will not donate anything to Firefox until Mozilla guarantees my money will be spent on Firefox.

But yeah wikipedia, archive.org, etc. Give them your money.

rickyrigatoni ,

mozilla donations not going to firefox was probably the caveat to secure google’s funding. If google has to pull their bribes, mozilla might make donations go to firefox.

Or I could be completely wrong. We won’t know until we know.

sugar_in_your_tea ,

Yeah, I’ll donate to Mozilla the moment they actually apply my donations to Firefox. I’m not going to pay for them to buy ad companies, donate to other charities, or put on charity events. I honestly just want to fund Firefox development.

That said, I’m okay with not 100% of it going to Firefox, as long as the bulk of it does. I understand there’s a lot of admin overhead they need to cover and whatnot, and I’m fine with my money going to that. But it seems most donations don’t make it to Firefox dev.

BelatedPeacock ,

Mozilla doesn’t use their donations for Firefox, though that might change if they lose the Google money.

todd_bonzalez ,
@todd_bonzalez@lemm.ee avatar

i have a recurring donation for firefox, thunderbird, and wikipedia

So to Mozilla and the Wikimedia Foundation?

(weird that you list Firefox and Thunderbird as separate donations)

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