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pr06lefs ,

Its kind of insane that EV manufacturers are making battery packs out of a lot of individual cells, rather than one integrated unit like this.

dual_sport_dork ,
@dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world avatar

That’s how battery chemistry works. Even this, if it is real, is a bunch of individual cells in a bank. There is no alternative; you can’t have sufficient reactivity between dissimilar materials to generate the types of voltages required in a single cell. You need multiples of them in series to hit 200 volts, 400, 600, whatever is required by the vehicle’s drive hardware.

Petter1 ,

Do you want to drive wit 3.7v? 🤣 even the smallest EV have over 3000W, so you would need a bit less than 1000A which would require giant cables

YMMD

billiam0202 ,

Batteries, being containers for chemical reactions, are subject to the core concepts of chemistry. Namely, that increased surface area increases the speed of the reaction. You could make one enormous battery instead of multiple smaller cells, but you’d never get it to discharge fast enough to make it functionally useful.

qjkxbmwvz ,

Not a battery expert, but I think there are safety implications.

sugar_in_your_tea ,

Not a China expert, but I’m pretty sure that’s not a serious consideration there…

halcyoncmdr ,
@halcyoncmdr@lemmy.world avatar

Like the other responses, the battery chemistry and design voltage are the major reasons for cell sizes, but also, smaller cells means they can be isolated if necessary.

In a Tesla battery pack for instance, each cell is connected by a single small wire that also doubles as a fuse. If there is an issue with the cell the wire will heat up and break. opening the circuit and separating that battery cell from the rest of the pack. This also means that a failed cell doesn’t take out a significant portion of battery capacity. Other manufacturers do this as well, but not all, and some implement similar capability in other ways. This method functions as a sort of “passive” option since it doesn’t require the BMS to make a decision to remove those bad batteries from the pack, physics just does it and the BMS adjusts to compensate when the cell no longer is connected.

Good battery management systems that handle things like charge leveling individual cells, can mean the difference between batteries degrading noticeably in a few years and the pack as a whole lasting a decade before that noticeable degradation. There are a lot of poor battery management systems on the market, EVs are no exception and if anything they make this issue more noticeable because of the increased usage.

chronicledmonocle ,

If the company is able to scale this technology large enough for consumer vehicles while keeping prices down, it could easily double the range of the farthest-driving EVs on the road today.

That’s a big IF. TL;DR: They haven’t developed a means of making this scalable and able to be mass manufactured. Until they do, this is another “revolutionary” battery tech that may or may not actually be used due to cost of production. Most likely in the “not” category.

If you want to make EVs more popular, make them with Sodium-Ion batteries that are cheaper than ICE vehicles. They’ll sell better as a result.

Hardly anybody needs an EV with more than 200 miles of range if they’re plugging in each night. Most people’s commute is round-trip sub-50 miles. “Range anxiety” is 95%+ of the time a “problem” that stupid people have for their theoretical future that never actually happens. Most people are impractical idiots.

Gregorech ,

Range anxiety is in the what if scenario, can I go from Los Angeles to Las Vegas on one charge, batteries need to last longer and be cheaper or charge quicker. being universal and swappable wouldalso work.

Petter1 , (edited )

Lol, that’s only 500km, there are many EVs capable to drive this in one sitting, but to be honest, a 15min charge and eat break would be great for every driver in a 4h ride.

chronicledmonocle ,

Or you could just get a Plug-in Hybrid, if that’s a concern.

CalcProgrammer1 ,
@CalcProgrammer1@lemmy.ml avatar

Range anxiety isn’t about your daily commute, it’s about the few times a year road trip you make across multiple states to see family on holidays. Having to stop and charge every 150 miles (as I wouldn’t trust letting it go below 50) sucks if you’re trying to go 500+ miles. Owning a gas car taking up space in your garage and costing you taxes and registration just to use a handful of times a year is wasteful. Renting a car is an option, but it’s cumbersome and if you plan to stay a while, expensive. I would not want an EV with less than 300 miles range. You have to factor in worst case scenarios as well, sometimes it gets dreadfully cold and windy in the winter. When it’s -10F and the wind is howling you’re cranking the (usually resistive) heat and driving head first into the wind kills your efficiency. These are real scenarios I have had to drive in my current car (Volt, so plug in hybrid) and my battery range can be halved (from 35+ miles under 20) in these worst case scenarios, but at least I can fall back on gas. I want to go EV for my next car but if I can’t reliably make it to and from my parents’ house 300 miles away on a bad winter’s Christmas break then it’s just not a feasible option yet, even if my drive to work is maybe 15 miles round trip. Also, charging station density is an issue. I would need to go half way to their house, 150 miles, to reach a charging station. You can’t just stop anywhere to recharge if you have a low range EV.

Dudewitbow ,

id argue that renting a car might be less expensive. your argument doesnt consider the cost it takes to replace your tires often (the heavier your vehicle, the more often you have to replace the tires), which for some EVs already, is a pretty significant cost.

buying something for something youll use less than 1% of the time is a terrible monetary decision. its like the people who buy big trucks with high torque, when more than 60% of these truck buyers have never towed something.

These are real scenarios I have had to drive in my current car (Volt, so plug in hybrid) and my battery range can be halved (from 35+ miles under 20)

this is a problem specific to lithium ion batteries. salt ion batteries and some other batteries that are being considered do not have that problem.

CalcProgrammer1 ,
@CalcProgrammer1@lemmy.ml avatar

How do sodium ion batteries help here? Driving into the wind and running your electric heater at full blast aren’t a battery issue, it’s just an unavoidable increase in power consumption that you need the extra capacity to deal with.

Dudewitbow ,

you dont get the condition of having your battery level halved due to cold weather, nor have the battery on an “always on” state because lion battery’s only operate at a certain temperature range. theres a lot of losses on cold weather caused by the use of lithium ion batteries in general.

just because battery capacities on cars should go down doesnt mean cars wont offer a “long range” option for users if they need it (tesla for example litterally does), its just the everyday one needs to go down. having extended range on all cars is a solution to a problem that affects the 1% situation, and is impractical to apply the fix to the general fleet.

billiam0202 ,

Hardly anybody needs an EV with more than 200 miles of range if they’re plugging in each night.

Speaking of big IFs. Not everybody lives where a charger is convenient or can have one installed in their residence.

chronicledmonocle ,

Most people have the option of plugging in where they live and/or work. The only argument would be for apartment complexes. Townhouses, single family homes, etc. are easy to switch to electric.

qjkxbmwvz ,

We’re considering a new car (current car is an old econobox that’s been to the moon), and range anxiety does factor in for the “weekend adventure” use case. We live in CA, and something like a trip to Yosemite or Tahoe requires refuelling/charging. But these places can get inundated with weekend warriors (like us!), who are all on the same schedule. We’ve had friends who have had stressful incidents e.g. charging in Yosemite valley, or on the way back from Tahoe. Add a toddler in the mix and it gets even less fun.

Not insurmountable, but infrastructure and timing are still not as good as for dinosaur blood.

For 95% of the time though yeah — commuting, single-day adventures, or bopping around the city would be no problem at all.

sugar_in_your_tea ,

Exactly. Give me something with 150 miles range and a relatively inexpensive battery (like $3k?) and I’ll replace my commuter.

I need 500 miles range to replace our family car though since we do road trips with it, and frequently go 400 miles between stops.

chronicledmonocle ,

Yeah I get that. That’s where Plug-in hybrids are a good fit.

sugar_in_your_tea ,

Yup, I have a regular hybrid for my commuter and an ICE for our family car, but I’m hoping to switch the commuter to EV and the family car to a plug-in hybrid. That way we’d only really use gas when going on longer trips.

But PHEVs are expensive right now, so I’m watching the market. I do need to upgrade at least one of them though.

Num10ck ,

i wonder if/how the EU and US would trust China not to remotely turn massive fleets of electric smart cars into suicide bonbers.

catloaf ,

Why would they do that? They’re going for an economic victory, not military.

ChicoSuave ,

Has China done that before? How does a battery seize control of a parent device when it is only connected by power wires?

Num10ck ,

china doesnt just make batteries of course.

gian ,

How does a battery seize control of a parent device when it is only connected by power wires?

It does not need to. Just set the battery on fire. Now set 100.000 batteries on fire, simultaneously, in a city, at night.

coarse ,

Soon: “US forces chinese battery developer to sell its business to an American company”

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

slapping a large fuel tank full of petroleum

Good thing we’re playing it safe.

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