Episode Discussion | Star Trek: Discovery | 5x10 "Life, Itself"

dethstrobe , 25 days ago

That was an ending alright. I feel like the epilogue was nice, with no killing of a main character for no reason (looking at you ENT) and everyone got a pretty happy ending. And Calypso at least is canon, but it’d have been nice to have more context on what the end game is.

But my problem is that the emotional pay off just doesn’t feel deserved. I really just don’t feel connected with the characters and crew enough. I really feel like more episodes (or a lot more) to really flesh things out would have helped a lot.

But you know what I think I might actually like. A movie. I feel like tightening up the epic galaxy ending plot in a 90 to 120 minute feature film would feel better then a 10 ep season. I doubt we’ll get one, but it’d be nice to see what kind of nonsense Burnham gets in to since they end it on a pseudo cliff hanger (as is DISCO tradition).

But what was up with Detmer and Owo being side lined for the second half of the season. I was expecting some kind of pay off for that, but nothing… It seemed unnecessary.

ValueSubtracted OP , 25 days ago

It looks like they’re doing a better job of retaining props from shows once they’ve wrapped, so maybe there’s a chance they’ll put the sets in storage in case they decide to use them again - either in a movie (the rumour is/was that they want to do a streaming movie every two years), or for the occasional guest appearance on the Academy show.

But what was up with Detmer and Owo being side lined for the second half of the season.

Michelle Paradise said yesterday that both actors were unavailable during filming, having booked other projects.

dethstrobe , 24 days ago

Nice to know the rumor mill has a possible streaming movie in the works.

And it makes sense that Detmer and Owo had external factors causing them to not play a big role. Disappointing still, but reasonable.

feedmecontent , 23 days ago

Discovery did emotional payoff for characters it never used all the time. Or like, emotional payoff was a sign that they were about to get used the first time. Discovery really wore it’s emotional payoff on its sleeve.

dethstrobe , 19 days ago

Completely agree. My biggest (but not only) criticism of DISCO is just how poorly utilized the crew was.

thejoker954 , 25 days ago

That was an episode of Discovery for sure.

Honestly it was kinda crap throughout.

The fight between Burnham and Mahl was rough.

And that ending. It was both a let down for various reasons and rather fucked up too for what they did with Zora (I guess to tie into Calypso or just get rid of the spore drive?)

To me I’m gonna miss the potential this show had more than the actual show we got.

stuck , 25 days ago

The portal interiors sure had a Spy Kids 3-D vibe about them.

minimalfootprint , 25 days ago

Discovery has always been a mixed bag for me.

I was fine with their changes to the Klingons, but disliked the emphasis of action.

I liked Pike and Spock (an Strange new Worlds), bit disliked the final battle with a million ships/drones.

I liked the jump into the future, but disliked the reason and resolution of the Burn.

I liked the threat of the DMA and its consequences, but the interpersonal relationships of the crew lost their appeal to me.

Season 5 was one of the weakest for me.

The Breen and the new XO two positives for me.

The crew, the Progenitor Tech and the search for it were all boring for me. Especially the established characters are more annoying than interesting to me.

Mol and L’ak ruined the season for me, more specifically Mol. A cross between a tantrum-having toddler and rebellious teenager, she added nothing to the plot. Her random connection to Book was blatantly manufactured and added nothing.

I actively had to stop myself from skipping scenes with her. I was close to just stop watching this season, since the rest wasn’t too compelling either. I really dislike when antagonist keep sticking around, because the heroes try saving them (from themselves). It’s okay to let a horrible person bleed to death, Michael.

I’m glad it’s over. It could have been better, but also worse. I think this season showed it was a good decision to end it now.

Stormygeddon , 26 days ago

Those red leaved trees are known to produce a lot of sap. Watch out as it can stick to you.

Anyway, I expected more of a “Be careful what you wish for” resolution with L’ak, but they just told Mol what would happen instead of actually doing it / creating a copy with no memories. I was disappointed with that.

I’m also kind of disappointed that Vulcans are so often seen kissing instead of doing the finger thing.

ValueSubtracted OP , 26 days ago

It would have been interesting to see Walking Dead L’ak, but it was also kind of nice to see Moll accept the situation and start to trust Burnham.

CeruleanRuin , 25 days ago

I wonder if they cut down the Moll resolution a bit to make room for the series wrap up. It did feel a bit abrupt.

UESPA_Sputnik , 26 days ago

This was … a DISCO episode.

Lengthy but meaningless action sequences? Check. Shaky cams all the damn time? Check. People talking about their feelings at the worst possible moment? Check. No apparent command structure and people just doing whatever they want? Check. One-dimensional villains? Check. Flamethrowers on the bridge? Check. (although, to be honest, those are so absurd that I’ll actually miss them)

I liked the future scenes because they were noticably slower and cerebral than pretty much anything that Discovery did during its five seasons. I wish they would have done something like that more often.

But yeah, that’s it. I’m somewhat glad it’s over. I liked the first two seasons of the show. Despite their flaws I appreciated that they’ve tried something new in the Star Trek franchise. And ultimately that led to Strange New Worlds, so I’ll have to give them credit for that. Anything after the season 3 time jump was not my cup of tea though. There was never enough worldbuilding for my taste because so much screentime was devoted to Burnham and Book, and that meant that the 31st century never really felt “real” to me.

Maybe I’ll rewatch seasons 1 and 2 somewhere down the line but I have no interest in watching seasons 3-5 again. I’ll just treat them as Burnham’s fever dream or something like that.

CeruleanRuin , 25 days ago

The contemplative and slower tone of the coda really highlighted what was lost in switching to shorter seasons with a long serialized arc to babysit. Imagine if we had those arcs but with a handful of bottle episodes peppered throughout.

skfsh , 26 days ago

I had placed a huge bet on Owo and Detmer warping the ISS Enterprise in at the last minute to save everyone’s bacon, and now I’m homeless

ritos , 24 days ago

Adam Pranica is that you???

Jaccident , 24 days ago

I lost so much money in that too.

e_t_ , 26 days ago

To just intentionally abandon a sentient ship in the void for an unknowable amount of time is incredibly cruel. Solitary confinement is torture.

ValueSubtracted OP , 25 days ago (edited 25 days ago)

I think that makes certain assumptions about how Zora engages with the world, which may or may not be correct. I’d really like to rewatch “Calypso” as it’s been ages, but Paramount+ seems to have…misplaced the Short Treks in my country.

e_t_ , 25 days ago

The whole reason they came to the future was that Discovery's computer couldn't be disabled or removed after merging with the Sphere data and becoming Zora. So (she?) is always online and conscious. She spent almost a thousand years alone before Craft's arrival. At the time, I could have accepted some disaster that forced the crew to evacuate (or killed them all) and Discovery became lost, with a final order to hold position. But for Starfleet to intentionally put the ship (from which Zora cannot be separated) in deep space and abandon it, I cannot interpret as anything except cruelty.

ValueSubtracted OP , 25 days ago

Whoops, fixed a typo in my comment.

What I’m trying to say is, I don’t think it can be called cruelty if Zora, in her capacity as an artificial intelligence, doesn’t mind. It may not be accurate to assume she will react in the way a human would.

e_t_ , 25 days ago

Clearly, adherence to duty is important to Zora. She was ordered to remain in position and so she did. Nothing indicates that she didn't mind, only that her sense of duty outweighed whatever her feelings were. I read her interactions with Craft as belying incredible loneliness.

ValueSubtracted OP , 25 days ago

At this point, you’re just describing a Starfleet officer.

e_t_ , 25 days ago

Ultimately, Zora's feelings are beside the point. Starfleet condemned a sentient being to (at least) a thousand years of loneliness. We do not see them consult Zora about her feelings on the assignment. She is simply ordered to do it. She is given no conditions on which the order terminates. She might still be there, still alone, a million years after Craft's departure. That's why it's cruel. It's cruel to give such an order. And, as a further twist of the knife, the instrument of that cruelty was Michael Burnham, ostensibly Zora's friend. "We had a good ride, but I'm old now and Starfleet just doesn't need you anymore. Rather than give you freedom to go and do you please, we'll order you to stay in this place indefinitely, alone."

ValueSubtracted OP , 25 days ago

Zora’s already demonstrated the capacity to disobey an order if she wants to.

So we don’t know if Zora’s being “tortured” from her perspective, and we have pretty solid evidence that she could just leave if she wants to.

FormerGameDev , 25 days ago

I couldn’t locate this specific one on Amazon or Paramount, but fortunately i had a local copy :D

Corgana , 18 days ago

Where are you getting that from? There is no evidence that Zora thought they were about to be tortured.

veeesix , 26 days ago

Back-zips are back in style! Farewell Star Trek soundstage, I will never not see you!

ValueSubtracted OP , 26 days ago

As far as season finales go, I think this was their best one to date. The action was split pretty nicely between the chaotic events on the bridge, Saru’s mission, and Burnham and Moll inside the portal. I thought the thoroughline of the clues left by the science team came together quite nicely, as well - there was a good amount of emphasis on how concerned the scientists had been about exactly who was going to find this thing. Burnham’s ultimate decision to chuck the whole thing into the black hole caught me by surprise, but seemed pretty well-reasoned.

As far as series finale’s go…I think they did pretty well with what they had. The several-decade time jump often works really well to cause some self-reflection, and it was nice to see an Admiral Burnham who was so settled down. And hey, we got our “Calypso” tie-in that managed to answer very few questions, but at least they closed that circle.

It really does feel like the end of an era. This show kickstarted the barrage of Trek we’ve (hopefully, mostly) enjoyed over these past few years. Of all the series that have followed it, Discovery has consistently been the one I’ve looked forward to watching the most, as it’s been the most willing to surprise and challenge me along the way. It’s been, as they say, a long road.

HobbesHK , 26 days ago

As a show with so much promise, I often felt Disco reached for big concepts but never quite managed to get there. It would get bogged down with pathos and dragged out plot lines. Unfortunately, season 5 felt no different. This episode dragged on and on for me. Mol and L’ak had mostly become irrelevant and were completely unnecessary in this episode.

I get the series got axed and additional scenes were shot to round things out. But that random “we’re all hugging” scene? It was weird. And didn’t the actress who played Detmer say their absence was planned and revealing anything would be a big spoiler or something? Well. No, it really wasn’t.

Kovitsch was Daniels? I think at that point of the story, he could’ve been anyone and it wouldn’t have landed. He could’ve been Sloane (not dead after all!) and it would’ve made as much sense and be just as meaningful to the story.

The progenitor plot? With a tick list of “clues” and “challenges” to lead the way, but ultimately we decide your worthiness to reshape the universe as we know it with a geometry puzzle? I can’t even.

Discovery had potential, back in the day, but disappointed year on year. I had hoped this final season would offer redemption, but alas. Decent bunch of actors, but with subpar writing that usually went nowhere coherent. I won’t miss it. Glad it’s done. I hope Paramount learnt some valuable lessons from this and moves things on.

tedu , 25 days ago

Should have gone with Barclay as Kovitch.

HobbesHK , 25 days ago

Hah, yes! Or O’Brien, the most important Starfleet officer in history!

thejoker954 , 25 days ago

Its been a while but didn’t Daniel’s break bad in Enterprise?

HobbesHK , 24 days ago

Not sure either, ENT rewatch was some years ago… I think that might’ve been another time version / shapeshifter or something something?

ricdeh , 26 days ago

Definitely a fabulous ending, but the tie-in with Calypso only made me more curious about what all that is about. Maybe there’s potential for a follow-up show now that the 4th millennium has been thoroughly established.

khaosworks , 26 days ago

Annotations for 5x10 up at: startrek.website/post/10858523

ThrowawayInTheYear23 , 26 days ago (edited 26 days ago)

Riker showing up would have made the ending better. Hopefully we’ll get to see Rayner again.

End0fLine , 26 days ago

I am going to miss this show. My barometer for trek finales is Endgame and I would say I liked this one much better.

The inside of the device was beautiful. I guess we will never find out where it actually came from, but I enjoyed what we did get

ValueSubtracted OP , 26 days ago

I guess we will never find out where it actually came from

This was something that caught me off-guard, but the more I think about it, the more appropriate it seems. Some things are just unknowable.