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Jade Empire, the prototype for Mass Effect

Let’s talk about a more well known game this time. Bioware is most known for their 3D RPG series Mass Effect and Dragon Age nowadays, but in the past they created isometric RPGs like the Baldurs Gate or Neverwinter Nights series. So how did that transition happen? Well, they published 2 games between those periods that helped them find their formula for 3D RPGs. While the first one was Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, which fits more to Dragon Age:Origins due to the pausable real time combat system with multiple party members (which I couldn’t play till now due to gamebreaking bugs), I want to talk about their second intermediate game today: Jade Empire.

Many of the elements found in Mass Effect were implemented first and tested in Jade Empire: RPG character development but real time action combat sequences, a group of companions of which a few are romancable and a great epic story with many twists, where the player can influence the outcome somewhat.

The combat and character development was build around 3 ressources: health, chi and focus. Health is self explanatory, chi is mana and focus is a third ressource for activating time slow mode or special weapon styles. You can choose between different weapons and magic attacks (ranged or melee) and also later transformations, which were really awesome. Nothing like transforming into a giant golem and smashing the ground to attack all enemies around you. You can also select one companion to follow you around and into combat.

The companions are one of the highlights of Jade Empire. By fighting with them side by side they will reveal their past to you and also comment on your actions regarding their own orientation regarding the Way of the closed Fist or the Way of the open Palm. For example The berserker like Black Whirlwind will congratulate you on a well done ambush but will scoff if the solutions don’t involve at least 2 murders. The characters are all a joy to experience. They even included a romance for three of the companions.

of Fist/Palm

The way you could influence the main and side quests is also with a unique twist: You have the Way of the Open Palm, which stands for friendliness, understanding and helping each other BUT it could also mean you just want to squeeze a little higher reward out of people with problems by being chummy with them. The opposite concept is the Way of the Closed Fist, which stands for autonomy, strength and doing things YOUR way, but also for teaching people to stand for themselves instead of cowering. Both paths can be used selfishly or for helping build a world more fitting to your ideology. I haven`t really seen that concept elsewhere, in that the normally “evil” way is not only selfish, but rather wants to instill strength in everyone worthy.

While Jade Empire is set in a faux east asian world, it is an amalgam of many different concepts and best described as east asian counterpart to standard kitchen sink western fantasy with sword, magic, orcs & elves. You are a young spirit monk and after the destruction of your order in the tutorial actually the last one of your order. Due to your training you can interact with the spirit world, which is a highly sought after ability, since the spirits of the recently departed don`t leave the world any longer but linger around. Your goal is to find out why your order had to die and how you can help the spirits move on. The story contained some great executed twists which give the story a nice flow. And it is I think the first game I played, where you can agree and join the antagonist in lieu of a boss fight at the end.

Story spoilers:As it turns out, your dear Master Li who raised and trained you is in fact the brother of the emperor and the master mind behind the attack on your order in the first place. The spirit monks were the monks of the water dragon and the emperor needed the water dragon (or rather its never ending blood, which is pure water) to end the drought that was plagueing the empire. But with the psychopomp removed, the spirits of the dead had no guide to the afterlife anymore, bringing a lot of unwanted side effects with it. When you attack the emperor, Master Li reveals his decade long scheme and kills you and his brother, making him the emperor instead. The water dragon saves you with its last bit of power and setting you on the path to dethrone Emperor Li, restoring the water dragon and thereby the natural order again. But you can agree with him in the end and subjugate to him, which was something I hadn`t seen before in games.

While this game is by no means a forgotten gem, I don’t really see a lot of discussion about it online. So if you haven’t played it yet, I highly recommend it, especially if you like Mass Effect.

Makeitstop ,

I think you can very easily see the progression of KOTOR -> Jade Empire -> Mass Effect - > Dragon Age Origins. It’s not all straight lines, but you can see the things they keep, the things they tweak, the things they cut, and the things they bring back.

I love Jade Empire. There are a lot of things I think could have been better, but I do really love it.

The combat was cool, and I liked the different styles, and the fact that you were not going to learn them all in a single playthrough. It also incentivized switching between hand to hand, weapons, magic, support and transformation in ways that still allowed each type to feel like it was useful and filling a niche rather than being the kind of samey rock paper scissors bullshit that many games use. That said, the balance was not great, and some options were significantly better than others, to the point of making some things seem almost useless. Most of them are usable, but if you try them all out you’ll find that there are some you will probably never use again. That said, on replays I would always pick white demon for my martial style even though objectively it’s the worst choice because I found it more fun and challenging than the other two.

Story-wise, the companions were fairly standard for Bioware games. I don’t hate any of them, but I also can’t say I have as much of a connection to them as I have to HK-47, Jolee and Canderous, or Garrus, Wrex and Tali, or Alistair, Oghren, and Morrigan. It’s not that there’s something wrong with the characters, as much as there’s just less opportunity due to the way Jade Empire handles them in gameplay. Unlike those other games, you only get 1 companion in your party at a time, so there’s no banter between them while you walk, and just less interaction with them overall.

This is made worse by the way the game handles combat for them. Followers can be set to fight or support, where they meditate to give you a bonus but leaving you to fight the enemies alone. A neat idea in theory, but the problem is that fighting really just translates to them distracting one or two minions until they get knocked unconscious. They can’t stand up to anything tough, and they will not be dispatching enemies, just acting as a momentary distraction before they fall (even the two that are combat only and are supposed to be incredibly strong). In support they will each give you a different bonus. One scatters bottles around that temporarily let you use drunken master style… which is not better than what you already have so it’s just a novelty. Two others slightly increase your damage with either weapons or martial attacks. And the remaining three each refill one of your resources (health, focus and chi). Since Chi is able to heal you and increase your martial damage, and powers your magic and transformations, that chi restoring character is by far the most useful, with the focus restoring guy being a distant second since it allows you to slow time and is needed for using weapons.

If I had one suggestion I could send back in time it would have been to allow 2 or 3 followers at a time, with a dedicated combat slot and a dedicated support slot so that you can have a larger party and less incentive to just pick one character to the exclusion of everyone else.

The morality system was a great idea, but like Mass Effect, there is a clear disconnect between what they describe it as and what it actually is in practice. The way of the open palm is supposed to be altruistic, while the closed fist is supposed to be about strength and growing through conflict and adversity. They aren’t intended to simply be good and evil. The problem is, you get lots of pointlessly evil options that don’t correspond with that philosophy they describe, and yet they still give you closed fist points. In fact, I struggle to think of a single time in the game where you couldn’t just replace the open palm and closed fist points with light side and dark side points and get the exact same result. It’s a shame, because it would have been great if they had more of a focus on the competing philosophies, with times when open palm might seem less than ideal, and times when closed fist comes across as respectable in its own way. In fact, I would have loved it if they’d had open palm, closed fist, and a third hidden stat for just being a dick, and had people react to all three.

One other big difference is the pacing of the game. The others all start in tutorial town, then move on to a second area which launches you on your quest, then opens up the map and lets you pick which order to do things in, before taking you to the endgame. Jade empire technically follows that description, but the part where it opens up is basically just letting you choose between 2 options, so it’s not nearly as dynamic. And based on the number of places which are frequently mentioned but never seen, I suspect there were multiple areas which were cut from the game.

This isn’t necessarily a bad thing, there’s nothing wrong with the pacing, it’s just notable once you’re familiar with that classic Bioware formula.

Overall, I highly recommend Jade Empire. It’s fun, it has an engaging story, an interesting world, and a lot of that old pre-EA Bioware charm.

Redkey ,

The morality system was a huge disappointment for me. You said most of what I wanted to say, so I’ll be brief.

Right near the start of the game, an NPC outlines the Way of the Open Palm vs. the Way of the Closed Fist, more or less the same way you described them. And I was so excited to see a morality system in which both sides were morally defensible positions. But from the very first Closed Fist follower you meet (just minutes later), they may as well all be monacle-wearing moustache-twirlers who punctuate every sentence with “mwah-ha-ha!”

The worst example that I remember is a bootlegger who’s essentially holding a town hostage. Far from following either philosophy as described, he’s just plain evil, and in fact I easily came up with (IMO solid) arguments for actually swapping the game’s morality labels on the player’s options. But no, one option is clearly “evil”, so that’s Closed Palm, while the other is obviously “good”, hence Open Palm.

caut_R ,

It‘s been a while but I remember when I played it way after its release I found it clunky and meh. I guess that‘s to be expected for an (when I played it already) old game. I want more martial arts games though. Especially kung fu games. I also want a new Sleeping Dogs…

tal ,
@tal@lemmy.today avatar

I think that maybe your Markdown is a bit off.


<span style="color:#323232;">#Combat The combat
</span>

This yields:

The combat

If you do:


<span style="color:#323232;"># Combat
</span><span style="color:#323232;">The combat
</span>

You get:

Combat

The combat

Wrufieotnak OP ,

Hm, that is not a problem on my side, here it is shown correctly. And I did format it as you did in your comment, so no idea what went wrong there.

Blaze ,

I remember seeing this game at the time of the OG Xbox!

Deceptichum ,
@Deceptichum@quokk.au avatar

Shame it’s so hard to play today and all the mobile ports are long broken.

Such an amazing game and still my favourite BioWare RPG of all time.

Although I’m confused by OP saying this is where ME got its elements, because to me it recalls as identical to KotOR.

Varyk ,

wow, never heard of it, sounds awesome and i definitely want to try it out, thanks.

EmoPolarbear ,
@EmoPolarbear@lemmy.ca avatar

Jade empire is solid gold and it’s a shame it’s not better known.

Wrufieotnak OP ,

I’m doing my part!

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