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disposable ,

Personally, terms like ‘first world’ and ‘third world’ are pointless to me.

No country is without flaws, I’d say, because most countries are inhabited by people.

PythagreousTitties ,

Did you figure it out yet?

gravitas_deficiency ,

Because the original concept of “ordinal world country” came out of the Cold War:

  • “first world” was US/Western affiliated/allied
  • “second world” was USSR affiliated/allied
  • ”third world” just meant “none of the above” for a very long time

However, since then, understanding of the term in popular discourse has somewhat shifted from geopolitical affiliation to a vague amalgam of socioeconomic status/GDP/“are you a pariah state”/etc.

On a less serious note: the US is really just several dozen 3rd world countries in a trenchcoat essentially relying on (but also politically backstabbing) the economic product of like 5 or 6 states that could be first world economies in their own right

capital_sniff ,

digitallibrary.un.org/record/1629536?v=pdfUN report from 2018 so pre-pandemic.

PhlubbaDubba ,

Third World is an outdated term to refer to neutral countries in the cold war.

Unless there was a sudden dramatic shift in US geopolitical policy it would literally be impossible for it to be considered third world, as the very definition of third world as the definition inherently implies that the country in question is not allied with the US and the broader Western World.

Austria and Switzerland were third world, technically Yugoslavia was too. China became third world for a decent stretch after the sino-soviet split since the other half of the definition relies on not being allied with the Soviets in particular.

The use of third world as an insult for poor countries is a neo-colonial mindset that just takes for granted that anyone who isn’t an outright ally of the west or of the Russians must just be too poor to be worth considering as anything but uneducated people in dirt houses living subsistence lifestyles and who’s main interaction with an apparatus of state is occasionally seeing a humvee loaded up with the child soldiers of this warlord or that drive by.

lud ,

I don’t like the government system, I don’t like the police, I don’t like anything to do with this country’s government. I just don’t like it, because… they’re sneaky, like I said - they’re deceitful, they’re lying, they’re cheats, they rip the people off. That’s the American government for you. America is a third world country, and people don’t recognise it… and I think that that’s pretty god damn sad, that they don’t recognise their own country as a third world, third rate, third class slum

1984 ,
@1984@lemmy.today avatar

Because of their modern and huge airforce and army, along with all the big tech companies, and Hollywood.

The PR image of America is quite nice. The reality, not that great.

jol ,

Because of their GDP. People are incredibly rich there. But one false move and there are no safety nets. You can get bankrupt in an instant.

grue ,

Because “first world” means NATO, not having a high standard of living.

Steve ,

Several reasons.

  1. The US is largely responsible for defining what 1st, 2nd, and 3rd World countries are.
  2. It has the largest economy in the world.
    (I think? That may have gone to China by now. Not sure. But it was true recently.)
  3. Even with everything you said being true. It’s still the wealthiest country in the world, by a large margin. Epically when you compare incomes, lifestyles, and infrastructure to actual 3rd world countries. It’s not even close.
SynonymousStoat ,

Looks like the USA is still about $10 trillion higher in GDP than China.

scytale , (edited )

Have you ever lived in an actual third world country? Here’s some from my home country for each of your examples:

  • Corruption in government is worse and more blatant than what you see in the US. It happens at the top all the way down to the lowest levels. You sometimes have to bribe people just to get some services done. I once had to have a police report done for an auto accident. The officer had the report typed up and they just needed to click the print button. He then said I can pay a quick process “fee” to get the report now, or come back to get the report in 3 days. It was an hour drive to the station, but I didn’t want to pay a bribe, so I came back after 3 days.
  • Infrastructure is crumbling not just because of lack of maintenance, but because the cheapest materials are used and infrastructure is not built up to code. Every step of the process means a cut for someone’s own pockets, so you end up with a tiny amount compared to what was initially funded. Perfectly functioning roads are destroyed and rebuilt in perpetuity because contractors are in cahoots with local government to implement “projects” where they fleece funds by agreeing on a budget then switching materials to substandard quality and pocketing the remaining amount, with the politician getting a % of course. A section of the street in my childhood home is still unpaved 30+ years later just because no one bothered to finish it.
  • Homeless people in the US may still have access to food banks, shelters, charities, etc. Homeless people in thrid world countries may have nothing at all.
  • People lose power in the US due to catastrophies. We had random 12 hour blackouts and water shut-offs several times a month for no reason at all. Water isn’t potable in the entire country and you have to boil or buy water from filter stations if you want to be safe.
markr ,

You’ve doctored your first two points to avoid the fact that widespread corruption and crumbling infrastructure are in fact a feature of the USA. That said, obviously we are not a ‘third world’ country, nor a ‘developing or under-developed’ country. We are, instead in our own special category of fucked. We have an absolutely giant economy, but as we have decided politically to disinvest in all of our public sectors, either by privatization or under-funding, we are rapidly becoming dysfunctional. Add to that the huge global reclaiming of surplus value from workers wages to plutocrats profits, and we are, as is obvious, in a political crisis shared by the rest of the neoliberal democracies.

scytale ,

Nope, my first two points did not change from my edits. I never said corruption or crumbling infrastructure isn’t widespread in the US. I just said that not only do both exist in third world countries as well, but it’s even worse.

DragonTypeWyvern ,

Love the privilege on display

Vendetta9076 ,
@Vendetta9076@sh.itjust.works avatar

Americans want to be from a third world country so bad

Deceptichum ,
@Deceptichum@quokk.au avatar

TIL: Way too many people think it’s still the Cold War. Language changes people.

ozymandias117 ,

Yup, it does change. It was attempted to mean “poor” and it’s been reappropriated since

If you’re trying to use modern language, it’s “developed” and “developing”

Deceptichum ,
@Deceptichum@quokk.au avatar

You mean global north/ global south.

Developing and developed are considered negatively.

But in terms of laypeople words, that are used every day, 1st and 3rd world mean the same thing.

ozymandias117 ,

North/south imply certain regions can’t improve and is far worse than developed/developing

If layperson words didn’t have an issue with 1st/3rd world, you wouldn’t see so many comments about it

otp ,

Language changes people.

In what ways are people changed by language?

Nemo ,

Because the definition of “first world” is “aligned with the US during the Cold War”, second world was aligned with the USSR, third world were countries not significant on the global stage. It correlates with but does not require poverty or dictatorships.

hotpot8toe ,

deleted_by_author

    •
    otp ,

    The US usually ranks 25-50 on world corruption indices. Third world countries rank 100-200.

    That would mean that the US is more corrupt. I’m pretty sure that’s not what you meant, so I’m just adding this to help.

    I don’t know if it’s a language thing or a regional thing (or just a regular mistake), but “rank” usually means that 1 is the most, 2 is the second most, and 100th would be less corrupt than 1, 2, etc.

    hotpot8toe , (edited )

    deleted_by_author

    •
    otp ,

    You’re right, they’ve ordered it that way, but they’ve specified that their scale is…

    [scored] on a scale of 0 (highly corrupt) to 100 (very clean)

    So you weren’t wrong about what you read.

    But without that context there, being “in the top ten of a corruption ranking” would usually mean the country is very corrupt, haha

    levi ,

    I think that these studies are very flawed, speaking as someone who lives in a 3rd world country… I’ll take a wild guess and say that the main indicator or at least one of the main indicators is the number of incidents where government officials were exposed of doing something illegal or unethical…

    If that’s the case they’ll end up with heavily flawed diagrams due to the lack of data and reports coming from these corrupt nations

    speaking from life experience now, you can’t tell me that in the US for example, you can crtisize a certain party, and your punishment is going to be some accusations or a lawsuit at worse… But here you’ll be kidnapped and erased from existence ( even if you’re a nobody yes, a simple Facebook post is enough )… And then tell me African countries are not that corrupt compared to a secular nation… I’ll just tell you : give me a break

    otp ,

    Yes, the scale they used was just a bit counter-intuitive.

    It wasn’t a rank from most to least corrupt, it was more of a “corruption score”, where higher numbers means more corrupt. But they ordered it like ranks, so #1 (least corrupt) would be first.

    levi ,

    Oh, I read this…

    The CPI ranks 180 countries and territories around the globe by their perceived levels of public sector corruption, scoring on a scale of 0 (highly corrupt) to 100 (very clean).

    And it completely threw me off, it makes sense that the most corrupt country is an african country…

    Somalia Rank 180

    I was like… no way Somalia is cleaner than Denmark… lol

    BlackLaZoR ,
    @BlackLaZoR@kbin.run avatar

    Because of very high GDP per capita. It's another discussion whether GDP is a reliable measure of economy output.

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