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orcrist ,

I like how you mixed a few notions together in a way specifically designed to induce chaos.

Even assuming that AI can take away jobs, which is itself I think inaccurate, and provably so, that has nothing to do with people lacking money. In an ideal world, we could use technology to improve productivity so that we would need to work less.

So then what you are actually asking is a different question. What you’re actually asking is, what happens if we create an economic system that takes away most money from most of the people, to much larger degree than is currently happening. And for that, all you need to do is go look at the history books.

Finally, your question as posed is partly self-contradictory. You’re talking about AI being competent enough so that it can fire everyone, but improvements in technology are not always monetized. They can also lead to extreme cost savings. If for example, if I don’t have the money to hire an accountant, but I don’t need to because the software package is good enough to handle all of it for me, then there’s no problem to be solved. And this is true for any number of so-called white collar jobs.

So then what we actually see is that jobs change and evolve over time. The word computer used to talk about a person who did arithmetic and other such operations. Now it’s used to refer to the machine itself.

independantiste ,
@independantiste@sh.itjust.works avatar

The real answer is no one. They will quickly realize that at the root of the economy are the regular people, and since the economy is a cycle, when you cut off a part, the cycle doesn’t work anymore.

People (doomers) here are saying businesses and rich people will, but this can only, work for a limited time, because either the products will shoot up in price since only the rich can afford them, or the businesses won’t be able to sell their products, so they can’t buy new things, which means no more revenue to the shareholders.

Think of all the companies that live from b2b models, when you look closer, they are all at some the suppliers of b2c businesses, except, maybe military companies. That company that makes the lithography machines (asml) only sells to other businesses such as tsmc. Tsmc also only sells to other businesses, but they sell to businesses that sell to consumers.

erev ,
@erev@lemmy.world avatar

i don’t think prices will shoot up, it’s just the wealthiest will have accumulated the absolute most amount of wealth they possibly could. Everything would crash but they would own everything. That’s of course if AI can fully replace us and produce everything that humanity needs practically forever but behind a paywall.

ByteOnBikes ,

In the 2000s, there was a strong angle about how programmers would no longer exist thanks to drag and drop programming tools and website builders. The average office worker would write little programs as easy as a excel formula, and a “programmer” would cease to exist.

I remember CS professors fearing for the future as they talked about the doomsday scenario of programmer jobs ceasing to exist, going the way of human calculators and the people who put letters together for a printing press.

Of course, business is still normal. It ebbs and flows.

I think about that whenever I think about AI.

some_guy ,

If we all run out of money they will harvest the marrow from our bones. They’ll extract a fee, don’t doubt it.

minorkeys ,

Whoever still has money. Either importing wealthy immigrants to replace the American market or they’ll move their products to the markets that still have money.

Hello_there ,

If all the money is hoarded by the rich, who is going to spend money to make the economy run?

Diplomjodler3 ,

The rich will live in their bunkers while society collapses and blame it all on communism.

maynarkh ,

The rich will keep trading with each other. Look at housing for an example.

randon31415 ,

1024: This new farming technology means one person can feed 1000 people! What are the other 999 people supposed to do? Are the lords just going to conscript all us serfs and have us fight for their entertainment?

TexMexBazooka ,

That’s pretty much what happened tho

untorquer ,

Were already seeing a drop in product quality and reliability. Just try a search engine for practically anything. Chances are you already type “wiki” or “reddit” or “Lemmy” or whatever along with your search terms. AI(LLM) is just advanced cargo cult development. It won’t translate to physical design even though that’s being pushed by management level and marketing. Products will stop being useful altogether.

That’s on top of the tailoring to business and wealthy class as others have argued here. But even that will have to endure enshitification. Ultimately the wealthy will pay for labor on their toys(they already do, we just can’t afford those).

This us a marketing and executive delusion issue.

FiniteBanjo ,

Well, in the purely fictional hypothetical that an LLM could advance to the point of reliably replacing humans without a stark loss of quality and marginal cost-benefit before legislations step in to make the cost of increased power consumption and environmental damage reflect on what these companies pay in:

Their will be an owners class who have stake or claim over facilities and technology to utilize the AI, and then there will be an everybody else who have to fight tooth and nail politically for basic human rights as well as shelter and food. Just the current system but whether it’s that much worse or better depends on how well our democracies function.

mechoman444 ,

An llm will never be able to do this. Unfortunately the word AI has been hijacked by companies and marketeers. Ai now means just about anything really.

They’re actually coming up with new words to describe what AI used to mean such as AGI, which stands for artificial general intelligence.

To elaborate on the premise of this post, The boost that we’re going to get from an actual artificial intelligence one that is perhaps sentient will be so much that the tasks that were once performed Will become so mundane and menial that it will not make any difference who performs those tasks or if they’re even being paid to do so.

In the same sense that the printing press removed the necessity for scribes, at least for the majority. Or the firearm displaced the bow and arrow as the dominant weapon.

Eventually, what general artificial intelligence will give us is a world free of our Faith-Based monetary system currently dominating the world.

In essence, we shouldn’t need money after general artificial intelligence is implemented.

sparkle , (edited )

The term AGI has been used since more than 2 decades ago, and AI never specifically implied something with human intelligence (maybe in the 40s-50s when it was just being invented, but not after that). “AI” has always refered to things like Siri and the YouTube algorithm and pathfinding AIs and trackers for anti-air systems and whatever else.

I remember that before I started programming I’d get annoyed at machinery like 3d printers for the “stupid AI” not working. Then I’d probably bang it or something to try to get it to work lol

mechoman444 ,

The meaning of the term “Artificial General Intelligence” (AGI) has indeed evolved in recent years. Initially, AGI was conceptualized as a form of intelligence that could understand, learn, and apply knowledge across a wide range of tasks, much like a human. This notion dates back to the mid-20th century, rooted in foundational neural network algorithms and deliberative reasoning hypotheses from the 1950s and 1960s

justthink.ai/…/history-and-evolution-of-agi-traci…

luceit.com/…/evolution-of-artificial-intelligence…

In recent times, the definition and understanding of AGI have been influenced by advancements in specialized AI technologies. Modern discussions often revolve around the practicalities and challenges of achieving AGI, with a focus on the limitations of current AI systems, which excel in narrow tasks but struggle with generalizing across different domains. For example, while models like GPT-3 have shown some cross-contextual learning abilities, they still lack the comprehensive reasoning, emotional intelligence, and transparency required for true AGI

…wikipedia.org/…/Artificial_general_intelligence

justthink.ai/…/history-and-evolution-of-agi-traci…

AI always meant human level intelligence.

What you fail to understand is with recent understanding of such concepts AI will far, far surpass human level everything.

(The above statement was generated by GPT4 sources have been provided. This response was prompted by the poster of this response.)

FiniteBanjo ,

Well it’s hard to make societal predictions with zero basis in reality so you’ll have to forgive me for grounding the premise to current phenomena.

Shardikprime ,

How is everyone going to be fired by AI? First define AI, because what we have now is a bunch of LLMs.

In the end, it’s more practical to have both working in tandem. You have a person who has common sense guiding and an AI tool who assists the person in doing the work.

At worst, people would have to up skill/re skill to have working experience with AI tools.

But people are not gonna stop working. New jobs will be created and some old jobs will disappear, as it has been the case

tonyn ,

When there is a scarcity of resources a population will shrink to sustainable levels. Right now there are too many people to share the scraps left from the billionaires hoovering up all the capital. People will stop having kids, others will die homeless, and population will decrease just as happens in any population of animals experiencing scarcity.

sunzu ,

You are more likely to be fired due to offshoring

zephr_c ,

That hasn’t really been an issue for more than a decade at this point. Domestic manufacturing production in developed nations has actually been increasing. They just don’t use humans much. You’re not losing your job to poor people overseas. You’re losing it to robots, and you have been since before the current AI craze.

sunzu ,

That hasn't really been an issue for more than a decade at this point.

Ohh wow really? i guess they can really only off shore manufacturing 🤡

zephr_c ,

What, do want a shitty graveyard shift call center job? Trust me, you aren’t losing out by not having access to that.

Unemployment isn’t even high right now. Why are you whining about a non-issue to begin with? What good would it do you to have more low paying jobs when the problem is that all the jobs are already low paying as it is? We just saw that if there are more jobs then people they’ll happily crash the economy until there aren’t just to make sure wages don’t go up. What do you hope to accomplish by spreading 30 year old conservative propaganda?

sunzu ,

You don't know what you are talking about if you think that call center jobs are being offshored.

Also, unemployment is low due to demographic shift.

masterspace ,

I mean, companies off shore software development all the time.

buzz86us ,

Personally I welcome a post scarcity economy

Jikiya ,

I would if I didn’t fear that the scarcity will then be artificial to keep groups in power. The idea is beautiful, our current direction is terrifying.

barsquid ,

Bad news: it is going to be an artificial scarcity economy. It basically already is, we have plenty of money for everyone to live well but it is all going into hoards.

Ragnarok314159 ,

This is what the mega rich don’t seem to realize. They already have 99.9% of the wealth, but if they had 99.1% of it no one would give a shit how much money a few trust fund babies had.

We would all be able to take care of ourselves and our families. Instead they want all the wealth and are willing to kill most of the global population along with the earth to get it.

dudinax ,

They’ll be making stuff for rich people.

wuphysics87 ,

People will find other things to do that AI can’t. Like welding, or tapdancing, or sex work.

MehBlah ,

AI will never be able to pick their nose like I do.

_core ,

You know we have robots that weld right now? And people are building basic sex robots? The idea that AI can’t replace a human is narcissistic hubris.

wuphysics87 ,

To be a little pedantic, should you permit me, the question said AI not robots. ‘Robots’ have beem welding cars for decades, but that hasn’t replaced people. When you learn to weld, because it is AI proof 🙂, you’ll find that there are some things you need to do by hand.

Sex work isn’t synonymous with sex, and sex isn’t the same as fucking something/someone. Just wait until you and another person use one another, or you have make uo sex, and you’ll know what I mean.

I trust you’ll grant me tap dancing? Either way, don’t worry young (d|gl)oomer, everything is going to be fine. You should probably worry more about what’s going on in the politics threads 🤣

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