Why is the current labour party in the UK considered more center left? Do you think they will pass any policies that are considered left leaning now that they have won the majority?

Flax_vert , 2 days ago

Because they were further left the last two elections and lost. The people wanted a right wing government, but the last one became so corrupt which is why Labour needed to be a comfortable party for them to vote for.

DessertStorms , 2 days ago

The media is pushing the narrative that Labour is on the left of politics as a way to fear monger and ensure his failures will be seen as failures of left wing policies, and shift the Overton window further to the right as a result, but they haven’t even been in the centre, but rather completely past it and in to mild right wing since Starmer took over and purged all the actually left leaning members from the party, and made it clear that he has zero class, or any other conscious.

His entire career in opposition has been proof that he’s nothing but a Tory in a red tie, since he didn’t oppose them on anything of any substance, and his entire election campaign was cantered on benefitting businesses, not the people of the country.

He’s gone against unions, he’s neglected health and social services, he’s ignored disabled people, he’s mocked the fight against racism, he’s made it clear over and over and over again that he’s in politics to serve the establishment, and his own career, not the country or the working class people who carry it on our backs.

So like, yay, Tories are out, but actually, we just have more of the same, only this time the veil is thicker and there is a pretence of progressiveness, that is only going to lull liberals in to a false sense of security, and push centre and right winged voters even further to the right, and leftism remains unrepresented in our parliament, because it’s too big a threat to the establishment (why Starmer was brought in in the first place - damage control after Corbyn).

ABCDE , 2 days ago

purged all the actually left leaning members from the party

This is just not true.

DessertStorms , 2 days ago

Yeah, yeah, “not all”, only enough to make sure there isn’t even a hint of socialist influence left in the party. Also, he doesn’t have to personally have removed someone from the party, for his actions and the actions of those who would fall in line with his establishment backed agenda to affect members of the party being sabotaged out of the party or leaving because they were made to feel unwelcome. The few that are left are relegated to the back benches and left with no real power to speak of.

In this thread there is already evidence of his dirty, unethical, and down right bigoted tactics, you not being comfortable enough to confront it doesn’t change the reality - Labour under Starmer is a neoliberal party that is serving capitalists and the establishment, and doesn’t have a hint of socialism nor solidarity or concern for the working class left in it (because when it does prop up as enough of a threat to the status quo, the threat is removed by whatever means necessary, it’s not like he has to go far when he’s deliberately stacked the party with other bootlickers who easily tighten ranks against anyone they no longer want around).

ABCDE , 2 days ago

www.bbc.com/news/articles/cw4y9evzzppo

He isn’t some guy who just turned up and started enacting anti-Socialist measures, that’s been far overblown. He has tried to clean things up, and he has done things which I don’t think help him. But, as you can see in the link above, he has been a socialist his entire adult life. His cabinet looks like a mature choice with a good mix of influences, different from New Labour, but also different from Corbyn’s shadow cabinet.

Hello_there , 2 days ago

Politicsjoe is a good outlet for uk politics. Or watch John Oliver's recent episode
Essentially, the UK has had fiscal austerity for 14 years under the conservatives. To prove that labor will be 'good for business' their new platform maintains the same cuts and has tied their own hands on taxing.
So, fiscally, there wasn't much diff with the conservatives, minus some crazy tory boondoggles like tax cuts for rich and paying tons to Rwanda to deport asylum seekers.

r00ty Admin , 2 days ago

I think that is indeed the best you can hope for with new labour in control over the tories. Slightly less backhanders and tax breaks for the already stupidly rich.

I don't expect anything far left of centre. I say this as someone that is somewhat centre left (UK centre left to be clear, USAans don't judge me on your political compass), I don't really think I resonate too much with the current labour party.

I think the thing that terrifies me, is that the tory party we had, that pushed through a no-deal brexit (when there were many other less disruptive ways to leave the union available), that has wet dreams about planes flying immigrants to Rwanda weren't right wing enough for our population.

What is the tory party's solution to this going to be? I doubt it will be returning to the centre right position they occupied in the Cameron era. They either accept their death, or move further right. I suspect we'll see the latter. When we find out their new leader, I suspect it will cement their direction for us all to see.

Hello_there , 2 days ago

The reason I got into UK politics despite not living there is the parallels with us politics. It's all that Satan spawn Murdoch's fault. But the same trends her travel there. 'remain in Mexico' and Rwanda. Tax cuts for no reason. Anti trans and gay. 'woke'. Boris Johnson and trump

ID411 , 2 days ago

It’s a good question. There’s nothing Left about the party at the moment. They are neoliberals who have already sold workers down the river to the Corporations, walking back basic promises for worker protections etc.

Policy wise, there is not much to look forward to. We can hope for more integrity and competence, but it’s slim.

The risk I see, is that they flop around in the centre, don’t deliver anything for voters, and leave the door open to right wing loons in one or two cycles from now.

frankPodmore , 2 days ago (edited 2 days ago)

Labour’s two headline policies are:

1. Green investment through a new state-owned company
2. A big expansion of workers’ rights

The green investment will be the biggest in the country’s history and the workers’ rights expansion will be the biggest in decades. Now, for me, those are two necessary, excellent, leftwing policies.

I think people criticising them from the left are mainly criticising omissions: why no wealth taxes? Why not nationalise the water companies? And that’s fair enough. Labour could do more and I hope they will. But the platform is a leftwing one, and I’m happy with it, even if it could always be more leftwing.

ID411 , 2 days ago

Which workers rights are expanding?

frankPodmore , 2 days ago

From the manifesto:

banning exploitative zero hours contracts; ending fire and rehire; and introducing basic rights from day one to parental leave, sick pay, and protection from unfair dismissal. We will strengthen the collective voice of workers, including through their trade unions, and create a Single Enforcement Body to ensure employment rights are upheld. These changes will improve the lives of working people across the entire UK.

Labour will also make sure the minimum wage is a genuine living wage. We will change the remit of the independent Low Pay Commission so for the first time it accounts for the cost of living. Labour will also remove the discriminatory age bands, so all adults are entitled to the same minimum wage, delivering a pay rise to hundreds of thousands of workers across the UK.

Flax_vert , 2 days ago

That’s quite nice. Especially getting rid of the wage bands. A bit mad how a 20 year old can be paid £8 an hour while a minimum for a 21 year old gets £10 an hour. It doesn’t really make much sense apart from an assumption that a 20 year old is still living with their parents

ID411 , 2 days ago

Wait and see.

ID411 , 2 days ago

I think your information is out of date

1. Reeves has decided, she won’t be banning them after all :

amp.theguardian.com/…/labours-new-deal-for-worker…

2. They are not in fact going the ban fire and rehire ft.com/…/5518e6d7-3abb-41fd-b8e0-238d66f4cb28

The unions have describe new version of a “new deal for workers”. As having “more holes than a Swiss cheese”

frankPodmore , 2 days ago

This is from the manifesto, published after both those articles. It’s the most up-to-date information we have on Labour’s plans.

ID411 , 2 days ago

I guess we’ll see , eh ?

Flax_vert , 2 days ago

I just want the bloody NHS fixed and houses to be affordable lol.

frankPodmore , 2 days ago

They’re hoping to do that, too! A cash injection for the NHS and planning reform, so more houses can get built more quickly, are both in the plan for the first 100 days. I imagine the planning reform will be in the King’s Speech, but the NHS thing should be able to happen pretty quickly. If not, it will be in the first budget.

Flax_vert , 2 days ago

I hope so.

HobbitFoot , 2 days ago

The previous head, Jeremy Corbyn, was socialist and had a long history of fighting for socialist causes. It would have been hard for Labour to find a leader more socialist than him amongst their MP’s.

Corbyn was also at the helm of a horrible Labour defeat in 2019.

Starmer has been compared to Blair, for better or worse. Given the Labour party’s platform, I expect a lot of the energy of this government will be to fix the damage that the Tories caused, get some new clean energy, and try to grow the economy as some former Warsaw Pact countries are creeping up to the UK’s average wage.

Foni , 2 days ago

What you say is better than what the Tories did, but with such a large majority they could seize the opportunity and renationalise some privatized services, improve and adequately finance those that the right was letting die, change the tax system so that the upper classes help to finance the state. You already know, things that should be normal on the left until the “third way”

Like op, I’m not British and I wonder if this would be possible or do we forget that something like this is going to happen, I don’t know, if you’re from there, tell us.

DessertStorms , 2 days ago

They could, but aren’t going to.

So far they have u-turned on every pledge they’ve made, specifically those about nationalising services, saving the health and social services from complete destruction from underfunding and privatisation, and stopping further cuts to a cruel benefits system they have no intention of addressing.

Meanwhile taxing the rich more wasn’t even in their pledges, all they talk about is making Britain “better for business” and making the population less “work shy”.

Anyone pinning any hope for significant change on Starmer’s blue Labour, hasn’t been paying any attention (or is out enough of direct harms way to not give a shit about those of us already at the bottom who will continue getting pounded).

Foni , 2 days ago

Thanks for the info, I wasn’t paying attention, but because British politics doesn’t affect me of course, I’m sorry for what it does.

DessertStorms , 2 days ago

If you’re not from here, my issue isn’t with you, people aren’t obliged to know the politics of all countries (though wherever you are, something similar is likely happening - the Overton window is shifting to the right globally), it’s the masses of locals who buy in to the idea that Starmer is a leftist that I find frustrating…

Foni , 2 days ago

Yes, I understand you, in my country it has not yet taken hold in a drastic way, but you see how politicians with ideas, social democrats at most, are treated in the press like ultra-intractable radical leftists.

twistypencil , 2 days ago

Since when do neoliberals “renationalize privatized services”?

DessertStorms , 2 days ago (edited 2 days ago)

Corbyn was also at the helm of a horrible Labour defeat in 2019.

Corbyn lost by less than 3 million votes (E: in spite of a brutal years-long smear campaign literally designating him “unelectable”). A “horrible defeat” is the narrative the neoliberal media wants you to follow because it makes him seems like less of a threat to the establishment than he really was.

E: it’s a bit late and I doubt anyone will see this now, but after seeing it just mentioned on tv I had to add that Starmer won with about a third of the votes, while Corbyn lost with just under half. So no matter how the media or those who believe it try to twist things, and as if there’s really any doubt when you look at the reactions to each, but obviously it has to be said - Corbyn was demonstrably more popular than Starmer is.

ID411 , 2 days ago

May I mention the fact that Starmers acolytes in the party were actively working to undermine Corbyn during the campaign?

Leaking racist smears to the press and so on ?

independent.co.uk/…/labour-files-forde-report-kei…

DessertStorms , 2 days ago (edited 2 days ago)

Absolutely, in case anyone needed more proof that the guy is 100% dedicated to the establishment and furthering his own career, not working class, and definitely not otherwise marginalised people (sadly, many do, so spreading this kind of info far and wide is not only welcome, but necessary).

Contravariant , 2 days ago

If UK politicians had any sense they’d fix the voting system that let that happen.

Obviously they won’t because that same system put them in power and is currently holding far-right at bay, but it would be nice.

DessertStorms , 2 days ago

Obviously they won’t because that same system put them in power

Yes

and is currently holding far-right at bay

No, they’re acting as an establishment backed placeholder while the right regroups in preparation for a surge even further right next elections (when they get to blame all of the countries problems on “lefties”). Also the far right has made pretty significant gains this election.

Either way though you’re right - he has no reason to fix the voting system. People really need to let this sink in - Starmer isn’t there for the good of the country or the people, but his own and that of the establishment.

Meron35 , 2 days ago

People think that the Brexit Referendum was when the UK timeline split, but imo it split when the Alternative Vote referendum failed back in 2011.

Contravariant , 2 days ago

Keep in mind that for the way UK elects MPs something like Alternative Vote (or even approval voting, which I prefer) would only help with the problem that only 2 parties have any chance of winning in each particular constituency.

It doesn’t get around the issue that ‘% of constituencies where party X wins the election’ and ‘% of votes cast for party X’ are in no way the same thing.