There have been multiple accounts created with the sole purpose of posting advertisement posts or replies containing unsolicited advertising.

Accounts which solely post advertisements, or persistently post them may be terminated.

Cleverdawny ,

Capitalism with workers protections and a social safety net is better than anything else we have tried, and you know it.

Lordbaum ,

Since i lived in a better system (in a very very small scale and for a short amount of time but it’s most likely scalable) I can disagree. It’s a start for sure and 100% better than raw Capitalism but there is still much space for improvement. Design the industry more in decentralized manner, design it more like liltle democracy than a absolute system. And give everybody their fair share based on the work done and and what the person needs (that’s obviously should be decided by the council based consensus democracy (if possible sometimes you just need majoritan democracy) . Also to spice things up we can open some more libraries of things and improve other services for the public like the train. And if we want to go really U/evtopian (which I want to) we could also replace some if not all markets with dispenseries. Cause markets are not always the best way to distribute goods.

Cleverdawny ,

What country is that

Lordbaum ,

It was a smaller ZAD, the bigger zones, where similar system are used are outside my continent. Rojava, EZLN etc. They are not exact the same as I described it since I just wanted to describe what can be improved based on other project; Libraries (of things) already exsist, worker cooperatives/syndicates already exsist and so on.

Cleverdawny ,

So you lived within a consensual, intentional community within the framework of a larger capitalist society. That’s all allowed and good, the problems generally arise when people try to reengineer the entire society along the lines of those intentional communities. That’s when people face a choice between either allowing private enterprise to persist and admitting that they can’t move past capitalism or resorting to dictatorial despotism.

Lordbaum ,

Why should there be no 3. Way? A way where we advocate for democracy and beyond inside the economic sector. And create project for project a better world on grass root-level. While we weaken the capitalist system and limit it destructive capabilities. I know more people can imagen the end end of the world than a end of capitalism. Which is kind of sad thinking about it’s exploitive and destructive nature. But I always say: you can’t let the world end without a fight. So I just pic the topics I am interested in and help there (handing out pamphlets, talking about Solarpunk, helping in youth councils and going on demos for human rights and for our ecosphere). I am always happy when people decide to help but we can’t force anybody to do so because this would be against what we stand for.

Cleverdawny ,

…why would capitalism mean the world ending

Lordbaum ,

It was a studie on teenagers where this result is from. I mean the earth will still rotate. But our ecosphere takes havey damage under our current system and I probably don’t have to explain why this is a big problems. Keep on mind that this world we live in is extremely interconceted not only on the social level (like the interconnections between capitalism, stastism, colonialism, Racism, Sexism) but also on the social-ecological level. The short summary of the reason is: alienation of humans from nature, the fact that infinite growth which is required by capitalism is not possible on a finite planet, the focus on power and profit instead of Humans and nature and comodification of the natural world. Social ecology is actually a very own school of thought. I recommend to check out the Lemmy communities on SLRPNK.net and if you want deeper beginners explanation of the topic I recommend andrewisms video on the topic PS: an increasing number in climate scientists and activists (including the IPCC) recognize that we need systemic changes to combat climate change

Cleverdawny ,

The ecosystem will take damage under any form of industrial existence. Capitalism, however, is driving innovation towards reducing our carbon footprint. As to alienation from nature, I am quite happy that my wife and child didn’t die in childbirth, thank you. And I like having both heat and air conditioning. I’m good.

Lordbaum ,

What you describe is primitivism but I more advocate for a Solarpunk future. So technology which is in harmony with nature passive: cooling, green energy, perma culture. But your comment perfectly showed what I mean technology is not or rather should not be something separate and antagonistic towards nature. Could you please define what capitalism is because I think we work with two different definitions. As for scientific advancement this dose not come from capitalism many scientist and engineers just want to help people that’s how we devolped many vaccines and medication. In addition more and more studies show that scientist are more and more hindered by capitalism through the inaccessiblilty of papers which is kind of paradox since we live in the information age. Also the highe pressure and the unpaid working hours causes that many quit. And that’s something I know since it will be my future field of employment.

Cleverdawny ,

Capitalism is the exchange of goods and services for capital and the protection of private property rights

an economic and political system in which a country’s trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit

Including the people who will presumably employ you and who fund the majority of research into green technology.

Lordbaum ,

A bit short but yes (tbh when I ask this question I mostly get total bs answers) I want to get into an institute because I don’t want to throw my work into their throat. Also you might be right there (I am not sure who funds more state or Capitalist ) but also they funded the biggest climate change denial campaigns as well as sabotage of science in addition A you did not invalidated the argument that inaccessibility in science is a big problem here is the studie published in nature www.nature.com/articles/356739a0And once again we live in the information age knowledge should be as easy to access than never bevor but through comodification like that you have to pay 100 € for one studies, from which the people who wrote it get nothing and sometimes have to pay money to get the studie published. It really does not seem fair and inhibit. And this is just one thing that is going wrong in science under capitalism. There is a reason more and more scientists resort to sci-hub to get the studies, espacally when the scientists are independent. And once again the employees do the work not the employer. That’s why I argue for bottom up common ownership as well as a democratizon of our industry (tbh I can’t tell you so much about the other fields there you should resort to my comarads, since one person can not know everything and I still learn new stuff since society is fucking complex)
But still I tstart.that there would be less ecological damages with a such a system (and don’t come with Soviet was dirty because fuck this authoritarian state-capitalist pseudo-communist state) (oh if you ask you self why I hate the SU while many others so called communists defend it I am not a Marxists-Leninist But an green Anarcho-communist. ) But to ce back to the first comment worker protection is a good start but just a start.

To end this discussion how about a bet. If capitalism survives and dose not destroy or harm our ecosphere in a critical way you get cookie. If it destroies or harm our ecosphere in a critical way I get a cookie (good luck making one under such conditions). And if capitalism dies and we end up in a Solarpunk future with a nice gift and library economy we both get as many cookies as we want. Sounds fair, doesn’t it?

Cleverdawny ,

All you need to do to get capitalism to independently solve a problem is align economic incentives with solving that problem. Fine carbon producers, pay carbon capture organizations, and / or tax carbon emissions and private industry will figure it out.

Inaccessibility of science is an academic problem, not an economic one

Lordbaum ,

Yeah i see how good that works out… Also a little Tipp for the future try to think in the big picture. This hughe massiv messsey interconnected incomprehansible picture (our monkey brains really don’t like this) as I said economy effects science it effects the narrative it effects the ecology, it effects the social spheres, it effects the culture. And every aspect of society which are more than I mentioned dose the same and effects every other aspect. Nothing is Isolated it all exsist together. Even an absence of a part effects the whole.

Cleverdawny ,

Yeah it’s been working pretty well

CyberGhost OP ,
@CyberGhost@lemmygrad.ml avatar

That kind of capitalism only works due to neocolonialism in the global south. The profits for the safety net need to come from somewhere and it sure as hell is not from the profits of the bourgeoisie.

I recommend that you watch this video and this video

Cleverdawny ,

That kind of capitalism is responsible for massive advanced in the quality of life of people who live in the global South you pretend to care about. I’m not interested in your YouTube propaganda videos.

CyberGhost OP ,
@CyberGhost@lemmygrad.ml avatar

The quality of life has drastically gone down in the global south due to the global north. But sure, slavery and the pillage of the wealth of the global south was for the greater good, right? And of course, you wouldn’t watch anything that doesn’t fit your biases.

Cleverdawny ,

Oh, so now you’re pretending mercantilism is capitalism. Pretty typical horse shit.

And no, quality of life is dramatically improving in the global South. Check rates of electrification, running water, and poverty. The facts say that life is getting better for the global poor, so why do you hate them so much?

  • All
  • Subscribed
  • Moderated
  • Favorites
  • •
  • [email protected]
  • random
  • lifeLocal
  • goranko
  • All magazines
    •