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BuboScandiacus ,
@BuboScandiacus@mander.xyz avatar

Can I ask which country you’re from ?

TachyonTele ,

You’re asking an account that hasn’t been active in four months, in an eleven month old thread.

BuboScandiacus ,
@BuboScandiacus@mander.xyz avatar

Sad

Titou ,

*rich eastern europeans

sweet ,

boomers destroyed the earth beyond all belief, poisoned everyone with sketchy ass chemicals, destroyed the economy more than once (twice in my life), most of us will NEVER own a home because the housed your grand pappy paid 100k for is now worth 2.5 million and average yearly wage is less than 30,000… among a million other things. The greed and entitlement is baffling, mix that in with delusional red scare propaganda that a ton of people fall for and yall mfers spending time defending all this insane shit.

we effectively live in a corporate government where what the people want doesn’t matter alongside the million other ways we are lied to and exploited. Billionaires and trillionaires run the world and they keep pushing for “the next thing” like the metaverse, blockchain and going mars while most of us cant even afford to fucking eat. Suck it. I guarantee that you cant even define communism and point out how it differs from social policies even on a very basic fundamental level. Fuck dude

ennuinerdog ,

How dare teenagers not become Neoliberals while growing up in a late capitalist hellscape where climate change can’t be taken seriously because it isn’t a profitable problem to solve.

P00P_L0LE ,
@P00P_L0LE@lemmy.ml avatar

Redditors try not to froth and post anticommunism for 120 seconds challenge (impossible!!!)

LearysFlyingSaucer ,

By “East Europeans” you of course mean your fellow fascists. The vast majority of post Soviet citizens disagree.

theguardian.com/…/unhappy-russians-nostalgic-for-…

debatingeurope.eu/…/have-living-standards-in-east…

independent.co.uk/…/the-big-question-why-is-stali…

reuters.com/…/us-russia-youth-idUSL25590105200707…

gallup.com/…/former-soviet-countries-harm-breakup…

spiegel.de/…/homesick-for-a-dictatorship-majority…

pewresearch.org/…/in-russia-nostalgia-for-soviet-…

mustkana ,

Estonian here. Soviet period was very problematic, and if you claim here that criticism of communism is fascism, then you are greatly mistaken. The crimes of communism during the Soviet period are well documented. E.g. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_war_crimes To point out that many Russians are longing for communism is quite possible, but these are the same Russians who are currently “liberating” Ukraine.

LearysFlyingSaucer ,

Yeah, not just Russians. Here’s a bar graph since reading is a challenge for some people.

https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/d823e6ce-55c0-43c6-9959-b8aed192ac40.png

Upgrade2754 ,

Making this meme took longer than opening a book to understand what communism actually is.

What everyone points to as “communism” shares more in common with capitalism than anything else. They had authoritarian rulers and a small wealthy class that lords over the rest of the populace.

There is nothing “worker owned” about these examples and it only serves to spread FUD about moving away from capitalism towards a more human centric economy

psilocybin ,

Top: Filthy rich capitalists and Boomers that lick up their cool aid

Bottom: Global South that produces both their wealth

Blocking you I don’t want another reddit experience

RidcullyTheBrown ,

There is no such thing as pure capitalism.

Lenins2ndCat ,
@Lenins2ndCat@lemmy.world avatar

7 out of 11 countries believe the end of the USSR harmed their countries rather than benefited them

Reflecting back on the breakup of the Soviet Union that happened 22 years ago next week, residents in seven out of 11 countries that were part of the union are more likely to believe its collapse harmed their countries than benefited them. Only Azerbaijanis, Kazakhstanis, and Turkmens are more likely to see benefit than harm from the breakup. Georgians are divided.

Hungary: 72% of Hungarians say they are worse off today economically than under communism

A remarkable 72% of Hungarians say that most people in their country are actually worse off today economically than they were under communism. Only 8% say most people in Hungary are better off, and 16% say things are about the same. In no other Central or Eastern European country surveyed did so many believe that economic life is worse now than during the communist era. This is the result of almost universal displeasure with the economy. Fully 94% describe the country’s economy as bad, the highest level of economic discontent in the hard hit region of Central and Eastern Europe. Just 46% of Hungarians approve of their country’s switch from a state-controlled economy to a market economy; 42% disapprove of the move away from communism. The public is even more negative toward Hungary’s integration into Europe; 71% say their country has been weakened by the process.

Romania: 63% of the survey participants said their life was better during communism

The most incredible result was registered in a July 2010 IRES (Romanian Institute for Evaluation and Strategy) poll, according to which 41% of the respondents would have voted for Ceausescu, had he run for the position of president. And 63% of the survey participants said their life was better during communism, while only 23% attested that their life was worse then. Some 68% declared that communism was a good idea, just one that had been poorly applied.

Germany: more than half of former eastern Germans defend the GDR

Glorification of the German Democratic Republic is on the rise two decades after the Berlin Wall fell. Young people and the better off are among those rebuffing criticism of East Germany as an “illegitimate state.” In a new poll, more than half of former eastern Germans defend the GDR.

28 percent of Czechs say they were better off under the Communist regime

Roughly 28 percent of Czechs say they were better off under the Communist regime, according to a poll conducted by the polling institute SC&C and released Sunday.

81% of Serbians believe they lived best in Yugoslavia

A poll shows that as many as 81 per cent of Serbians believe they lived best in the former Yugoslavia -”during the time of socialism”.

Majority of Russians

The majority of Russians polled in a 2016 study said they would prefer living under the old Soviet Union and would like to see the socialist system and the Soviet state restored.

The above memes are almost always made by Americans, whose brains are riddled with red scare brainworms and are completely devoid of any knowledge or understand of what the left thinks in Europe because Americans do not have a left.

huge_clock ,

These polls are really out of date. These numbers have since improved substantially in capitalism’s favour.

Lenins2ndCat ,
@Lenins2ndCat@lemmy.world avatar

These polls are really out of date. These numbers have since improved substantially in capitalism’s favour.

Feel free to give citations that are better than 2010-2016 lmao.

huge_clock ,

policysolutions.hu/…/regime_change_30_years_on_en…

Lenins2ndCat ,
@Lenins2ndCat@lemmy.world avatar

According to the absolute majority of respondents (54%), the majority of Hungarians had a better life under the Kádár regime (pre-1990) than today

The Kádár regime was the communist government.

there were even more respondents (61%) who said that the conditions for individual financial prosperity were more favorable under the Kádár regime.

lol

It is also worth noting that almost two-thirds of Hungarians (63%) said that there was predictable order and social peace under the Kádár regime

lmao

I like this research. Thanks for sharing.

EDIT:

The older an age group, the higher the proportion was of those who agreed that the majority lived better before the regime change. A significant correlation can be observed when looking at the educational background: citizens with lower education tend to believe that most Hungarians lived better under Kádár. Among the lowest qualified citizens, 62 and 27 percent are the share of the two sides, but even according to the relative majority of graduates (45%), most Hungarians lived better before 1990 than today.

So the older the Hungarian the more likely they are to believe that things were better under communism. So the people that actually lived in communism support it even more. Oh and the more educated people are the more likely they are to support that position too. I think the age thing will explain why the stat is slipping over time, the people that actually lived in communism are the people that support it more, and as they are dying they are being removed from the data.

b3nsn0w ,
@b3nsn0w@pricefield.org avatar

Hungarian here. We had ten good years, then the same ruling class started to do the same shit they did back then but under a different name. But at least nowadays you can leave the country, which many do since – the frequent attempts to do so were an important cultural touchstone here in the 45 years of soviet occupation.

Trust me, no one wants the same shit back, that’s just a political talking point propping up Orbán’s pro-russian bullshit.

Lenins2ndCat ,
@Lenins2ndCat@lemmy.world avatar

Of course nobody wants the same shit, I don’t want the same shit either, I know for sure that the hard left of mszp sit around where I am. Things can be so much better.

b3nsn0w ,
@b3nsn0w@pricefield.org avatar

They did lead our last good government. And yes, I’d like that too, I voted for the coalition they were in in every election since I had the right to vote. I’m just saying that things being better is not the same as reinstating the same regime we had under the soviets, that would be pretty universally things going worse.

We’re in a failing capitalist system, but it still manages to be less oppressive than the failing socialist/communist/call it whatever you want system we had before.

vanderder ,

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/b4e09059-4480-4126-88bb-c083bb7b86c8.png

Lenins2ndCat ,
@Lenins2ndCat@lemmy.world avatar

And? Socialism does not mean not having a multiparty system. I get that you’re trying to imply that approving of a multiparty system or a market economy is somehow evidence of being against socialism but both of those things exist under socialism. Yugoslavia was a market economy in eastern europe under socialism.

Rooty ,

Yugoslavia was a market economy in eastern europe under socialism.

There was a limited amount of pseudo-private “workers collective” (OOUR) companies starting from the mid 70s all the way to the breakup. It was certainly not a market economy in any meaningful way. The entire economy was propped up by foreign loans, which was a cause of so much inflation that the currency had to be re-adjusted twice, starting from the late 60s.

vacuumflower ,

7 out of 11 countries believe the end of the USSR harmed their countries rather than benefited them

That’s because USSR was designed intentionally so that its end would be a catastrophe. To prevent that end. However, since it was simply unable to exist further even on life support, what happened happened still.

End of USSR being bad doesn’t mean USSR being good. It’s just a choice between horrible end and horror without end.

I live in Russia and you do not.

Volodymyr ,

The polls quoted are not representative because of the demographics change. The oldest part of the population, who grew up after WW2, prefers soviet union, but it’s because it was their youth. Their children, who spent most of their lives in “developed socialism” are much less happy about it. Young people, who grew up in independent states, are overwhelmingly against soviet baggage. And since 2010, when some of the quoted polls were made, older people died.

The only ones who actually regret the decay are russians who morn loss of their empire. Soviet union was just another incarnation of it. Also serbs and hungarians who are a bit isolated in their space.

It is especially strange to see this comment while ukrainians, one of the largest postsoviet states, overwhelminly support and enact literal fight against russian restorational imperialism which tries to bring russian-dominated soviet state back. Or are you questioning this proposition too?

Lenins2ndCat ,
@Lenins2ndCat@lemmy.world avatar

Every single left wing party in ukraine was banned, and my friends in the country were arrested for being socialists. Speech in the country can not be considered free and opinion can not be measured accurately at the current moment in time. It would also be sort of foolish to attempt this with the country split into 4 regions between Ukraine proper, Crimea and the two Donbas republics. Ideally you would include all of them in that data, and if we went back in time and looked pre-2014 (when the civil war started) we’d see a lot of support in those regions. But now? Everything is a mess and I wouldn’t trust either states at war to give us reliable data.

I of course don’t consider the factions pursuing a restoration of the Russian empire to have anything to do with socialism either. For the record.

Volodymyr ,

What is banned is communist party, and not because it was communist (it was not) but because it was pro-imperialist restoration, and also just for old people who wanted to remember their youth.

I am ukrainian and have ukrainian communist friends, and they are now just as fiercly antirussianimperialism as every one I know in Ukraine. It just shows that the leftist ideas live on, especially among young people (but also their parents, who in 2014 protested for ideas of their children, when children were assaulted for now good reason, starting all the violence). The problem is that any explicit reference to communism or state socialism is very tainted. So you can see why the title meme makes a lot of sense.

Lenins2ndCat ,
@Lenins2ndCat@lemmy.world avatar

You’re skipping the 11 other parties that are banned. Very free.

PrivateNoob ,

Another hungarian here. Definitely before 1989 Hungary was probably known for having one of the best living conditions under the USSR’s sphere. It went pretty good in terms of spending power (heavy censorship in media if not aligned with the regime’s view, forced labor, government spying agents everywhere, couldn’t talk about 1956, etc.) until the 70’s when Kádár (the dictator of the country) realized that he can’t keep up these living standards, except if he takes up debt. So he literally taken up debt to keep up this facade, which really hit to us when we replaced the regime, and since the people have been so used to this kind of populist leadership type, they have chosen Orbán (current president) several times, despite the horrendous amounts of corruption, stomping freedom of speech, fearmongering, spying on opponents phones etc, just because he is really good at continuing the populist ideology which Kádár has done.

EDIT: I’m not saying capitalism is good, I rather support a hybrid model which the EU does currently. Too much state intervention is bad, and too much freedom for corpos are also bad too. In my case my government happily accepts building factories in this country which 100% is better for agriculture, and these corpos doesn’t have to pay much tax, can overtime workers and only pay them like 4 years later (yes this is legal).

uzay ,

All of that only speaks to western capitalism being shit, and not so much to soviet communism being any good tbh

Gray ,
@Gray@lemmy.ca avatar

I think the way we argue over labels hurts us. If I use heavy regulation and government aid to limit the abuses in a capitalist system, at what point does the label change to “socialism”? I think we do ourselves a disservice to create these strict conceptions of systems like capitalism, socialism, or communism. Then when one fails we get to say “well that wasn’t true x”. And the labels allow people to boogeyman an idea. And worst of all, we eliminate the possibility to take good lessons from multiple different systems and incorporate them into our system. I think we would be better served promoting policies on a case by case basis instead of using these huge words. And to be clear, I’m a bit of a hypocrite here. I’ve been mostly telling people I’m a “social democrat” or that I support “capitalism with heavy regulations”. But even those words can get picked apart and don’t really capture nuance. My main point is that I think this thread is a perfect encapsulation of how these arguments stop us from getting behind good policies when we bicker about the definitions of words that mean different things to different people.

salient_one ,
@salient_one@lemmy.villa-straylight.social avatar

IMHO, by this point those labels are nothing but thought-terminating clichés.

Gray ,
@Gray@lemmy.ca avatar

Yeah. Like saying you believe that companies beyond a certain size should be legally required to seek a vote from their employees before implementing certain types of changes is a real policy to argue about. Call it democratizing business or whatever you want. And then that’s an actual concrete issue we can argue about. Or if you believe in the government buying out businesses beyond a certain size, that’s a specific conversation we can have and we can discuss the hypothetical implementation of that. Call it business seizure or whatever. Just saying “I believe in socialism” doesn’t dig enough into the details of how you perceive socialism or how you would implement it. And frankly, I think it hurts the socialists or communists or whoever is trying to persuade the current culture away from what we have more than anybody else. Ideas grow when you make real, concrete proposals. These exceedingly large scale labels usually end up killing a conversation rather than feeding it. Someone gets mad at a label and then everything shuts down on that sticking point.

nanoUFO ,
@nanoUFO@sh.itjust.works avatar

Communism isn’t the issue the same way Capitalism isn’t the issue, the issue is rich people abusing working class and poor people. Removing democracy from these systems just make them absolutely horrid in the long run. Also China isn’t communist it’s state capitalist dictatorship.

CthulhuOnIce ,

comment section frustratingly filled with McCarthy-brained liberals who have never critically examined their preconceptions about communism

wagoner ,

A meme like this is what happens when you believe the GOP that doing anything to benefit regular people is communism.

yogthos ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

counterpoint and some reading material for capitalism stans on here …archive.org/…/Killing_Hope-US_Military_and_CIA_I…

https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/0a918946-3c1c-4d7f-9341-1652d49f0461.jpeg

BRINGit34 ,
@BRINGit34@lemmygrad.ml avatar

Based comrade

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