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danielfgom ,
@danielfgom@lemmy.world avatar

Yes, no antivirus. You don’t need it. There are no viruses. Plus, the way Linux is setup it’s not easy for a virus to do alot of damage.

CrypticCoffee ,

And if you’re dual booting with Windows and shared data?

danielfgom ,
@danielfgom@lemmy.world avatar

Put the AV on Windows only. Linux cannot run any .exe files anyway so they are useless, unless you try run them under wine, but I wouldn’t recommend it.

Mandy ,

Use common sense and dont install random shady shit from the internet.

Best antivrius in the world

ReakDuck ,

After happily not following your advise my entire life on Arch Linux… I got this weird Virus on my PC while game developing. This virus made my entire PC glitch and my friend also wondered what the fuck is going on. Weird and creepy music started and sounded like its telling me I am dumb. After unplugging my entire PC from electricity, the music was still there… and I cried.

After waking up I asked myself how the fuck did I dream this and why this dream felt so real (like a lucid dream but I thought this is real life). I maybe dreamed this after having a discussion why I should get an IPhone. As a GrapheneOS user I explained myself, but restarted my thinking about Security. (But even without being a Security focused guy, an IPhone has not enough features like Sideloading Open Source apps)

Mandy ,

what vim does to a motherfucker

shirro , (edited )

The typical consumer Windows antivirus was designed to solve a different set of problems in a different environment and analysing files for signatures and behaviors against known threats was very valuable when so many people were running executables from unsafe sources intentionally or not. Even on Windows an antivirus has never been the best way to secure a machine. It was always the lowest common denominator solution that you put on everyone’s machine because it was better than nothing.

Linux has been well served for a long time by the division or privileges between root and users and signed trusted distro sources. The linux desktop is trending towards containerized flatpak applications running in seperate namespaces with additonal protection via seccomp. Try and understand the protections Linux provides and how to best take advantage of them first and only reach for an antivirus if you still think it is needed.

sounddrill ,

ClamAV goated

vulpo ,
@vulpo@reddthat.com avatar

I think clamav is a good antivirus

cizra ,

There’s plenty of good advice in other comments in this topic. Let me add mine too, something I haven’t seen in other comments: You need to figure out your threat model, and steer your course accordingly.

Who do you trust?

  • No one? Don’t use a computer. Use an airgapped computer without any internet connection. Write your own OS (but be mindful of bootstrapping issues, you’ll also need to write your own compiler to protect against Thompson’s hack). It’s a hassle.
  • Original authors of software? Compile and install all software from source. Consider using LFS. It’s a hassle.
  • Maintainers of my operating system of choice? Only install packages from official package repositories (apt in Debian, pacman in Arch, you know the drill). Eschew any others, like PPA in Ubuntu, AUR in Arch. Though package maintainers don’t necessarily review any package updates, there’s a chance they just might. Though package maintainers are in the position to inject backdoors during packaging, this is somewhat unlikely as packaging scripts tend to be small and easy to review.

What risky activities are you doing?

  • Running random crap software downloaded from the internet?
    • Run it in a virtual machine. It’s easy to install another Linux into a VM - you could try VirtualBox or qemu or libvirt or some other one.
    • Containerize it with Docker, or run it in Firejail or Bubblewrap
      • Don’t mount your home directory, or anything other important into the container. Instead, if you need to pass data, use a dedicated directory.
      • It’s easy to restrict internet access to a program, when running it in Docker or Bubblewrap.
  • Running the same as root? I’m pretty sure a full virtual machine would be the only secure option to do that, and I’m 100% certain even that would be enough.
  • Running large software that probably ought to be OK, but you never know for certain? This is what I normally do:
    • Use the Flatpak version, if available. Check its permissions (e.g. with Flatseal), you might be able to tighten the screws. For example, a browser (yes, Firefox, Thunderbird, Chromium are available as Flatpaks. Even Chrome is) is plenty large enough for any number of security bugs to hide in. Or a backdoor, which might be crafted to be indistinguishable from a honest bug.
    • If there’s no Flatpak version available, I Bubblewrap it.

I have a simple Bash script that restricts apps’ view of my filesystem, and cuts off as much stuff as possible, while retaining the app’s ability to run. Works with Wayland and console apps, optionally with Xorg apps if I set a flag. Network access requires its own flag.

I could share my Bubblewrapping script, if there’s interest.

vulnerability ,

Wow really helpful

hevov ,

Thanks for the helpful list. I had concerns in the past about flatpak, because as far as I know the dependencies are bundled into the flatpak and are not using the latest version of your distro. But that means that some flatpaks probably use outdated and unsecure dependencies.

Whats your opinion on that matter?

pastermil ,

I found flatpak to in fact be ahead of distros’ packages. Granted, I use distros that are rather conservative on update (Debian, Gentoo, and Linux Mint). If you use something bleeding edge like Arch, things may be different, but shouldn’t be far off.

Either way, I find flatpak to be reliable.

cizra ,

Indeed, Flatpak is its own repo. It might be more, or it might be less up to date than your favorite distro. Debian, for instance, was once notorious for packaging ancient versions (tho this has improved lately).

The saving grace of Flatpak is that it’s still better isolated.

If native Chrome decides to start emitting your crypto wallet’s privkeys as a part of its push for Better Customer Experience and More Precisely Targeted Ads, you won’t even know or notice it. This is technically very easy to do. It might make itself hard to dislodge by injecting itself into ~/.bashrc or the desktop environment’s startup system, or Systemd services.

If Flatpakked Chrome starts misbehaving, it might mine crypto on your CPU (wasting your electricity), or rent out all your disk space, or turn your PC into a node in a botnet, but it won’t have access to read or write anything other than your ~/Downloads. It’s also easy to uninstall, as it hasn’t had a chance to spread its seed.

Sorry for the long rant… What was the original question again? Outdated dependencies? Not an expert, but I hear the whole reason AppImage, Snap, FlatPak, Yarn locks and Go language was invented was to make it easier to have outdated dependencies. You never know what’s available in $Distribution, you depend on goodwill of maintainers of $Distribution to package your app and all deps. In AUR you can find older versions of Lua libs (lua51-filesystem) which someone had to add to make Mudlet run - Mudlet didn’t see fit to upgrade to the latest Lua.

While it is indeed somewhat true that a library (that many apps depend on) can be patched to fix a security issue, and apps won’t need to be rebuilt, it only works if the lib was a sufficiently recent version. And if the distro maintainer is more diligent than the Flatpak maintainer. Otherwise, the authors of said lib are going to ask you to upgrade to a supported version where that bug has already been fixed, defenestrating the whole argument-in-favor. This completely breaks down in NixOS, too, where your package would get rebuilt from source as inputs changed.

zwekihoyy ,

do not use browsers from flatpak. browsers have their own built in sandbox that is crippled or sometimes fully disabled in order to make flatpaks sandboxing work, which are often less restrictive than the browser’s.

flatpak is better than nothing for the average user but most packages completely ignore the sandboxing it is supposed to use and require manual changes on flatseal.

cizra ,

Interesting, could you please elaborate?

  1. What exactly is this “built in sandbox”, and what does it protect against? How does it compare with Flatpak disallowing access to filesystem?
  2. Could we get a source for the claim of sandbox being crippled? Or more details? Documentation? Build scripts?

I had a look at flatpaks I have installed:

  • Firefox (org.mozilla.firefox): no access to ~
  • Thunderbird (org.mozilla.Thunderbird): no access to ~
  • Element (im.riot.Riot): no access to ~
  • Beyond All Reason (info.beyondallreason.bar) - no access to ~
  • Steam (com.valvesoftware.Steam) - no access to ~, and (best of all) Steam runs a ton of untrusted code in games, which will inherit this restriction.
  • Wolfenstein: Blade of Agony (com.realm667.Wolfenstein_Blade_of_Agony) - no access to ~
  • Chromium (com.github.Eloston.UngoogledChromium): allows access to ~ by default. It’s one click to disable, or I could shop around for another one, like org.chromium.Chromium.
  • OpenTTD (org.openttd.OpenTTD) - allows access to ~

Thus, yeah, some apps neglect to restrrict ~, thankfully it’s easy to fix. It’s not a disadvantage, though, it’s a lack of advantage.

AFlyingCar ,

I would actually like to see your Bubblewrap script if you wouldn’t mind sharing. I’ve been thinking about trying to learn how to use it for a while now, but I’ve kept putting it off since getting Xorg programs to work with it seemed difficult/confusing to me.

cizra ,

Here it comes: paste.ee/p/voTFI

Note that I’m no Bash expert, and you’ll undoubtedly find ways to improve or fix it. Usage:

  • Run stuff in a sandbox isolate bash - and then verify your access to filesystem is restricted
  • Enable Xorg for apps that need it X=1 isolate mindustry
    • Wayland, which naturally isolates apps from each other, is enabled by default.
  • Enable network for apps that need it: NET=1 isolate curl https://ip6.me/api/
  • Enter the sandbox to mess around with it manually: NAME=mindustry isolate bash
    • Note that it doesn’t catch Ctrl-C. Ctrl-C kills the isolated Bash.
  • Populate data (installers and whatnot): NAME=mygame isolate ls; cp installer.sh ~/.local/share/bubblewrap/mygame/; NAME=mygame isolate bash
virtualbriefcase ,

Virustotal is great to scan anything you download that does not contain sensitive information, and ClamAV + TK will work locally to scan anything that contains sensitive information (e.g. documents sent by others) or things too big for Virustotal.

Like others are saying, there’s less of a need for antivirus on Linux since there’s less easy entry points (e.g package manager over downloading an installer) and less (but far from 0) malware made for Linux. But we all probably download app images or get documents related to job searches at some point and I personally prefer to scan almost file that I get from a remote computer.

RoboRay ,
@RoboRay@kbin.social avatar

Do you have any antivirus recomendations for Linux.

Install all applications from your package manager.

Don't run things as root.

Don't visit sketchy websites.

Run an ad-blocker that isn't owned by an advertising company.

necrxfagivs ,

Can you get a virus just for visiting a sketchy website?

Also, some programs aren’t available via my package manager (I use Fedora) so I have to add 3rd party repos. Is there a general security guide for linux?

Thank you!

c1177johuk ,

Nowadays it is almost impossible to get a virus just from visiting websites. As for security recommendations I would recommend never running applications as roo that 100% don’t need it, as for 3rd party repos I would always be a by mindful of the apps but generally there isn’t too much of a risk, of getting a virus.

kyub ,

Highly unlikely. A site could try to exploit unpatched security holes in your browser, but if your browser is up to date, this is unlikely to succeed. Modern browsers are very complex and large so they have lots of weaknesses, but they also get fixed quickly, a lot of eyes are on their code and they utilize sandboxing techniques as well to isolate things from your system.
Still, it's a good idea to harden your browser further yourself, or run it in an additional sandbox.

Check Flatpaks as well.

MonkderZweite ,

Can you get a virus just for visiting a sketchy website?

Not with an uptodate browser. But there was malware in adverts on normal webpages. Even CIA recommends an adblocker.

cyborganism ,

Meanwhile at Google…

RoboRay ,
@RoboRay@kbin.social avatar

There have been cases of malware exploiting scripts and even images being displayed, whether directly hosted on the site or via compromised ads.

ashtefere ,

Most antivirus software are just root level tools to harvest your data, that pretend to help

skullgiver , (edited )
@skullgiver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl avatar

deleted_by_author

    •
    pmtriste ,

    I’m using since corporate Eset on Linux. When did they drop support?

    HotBoxghost2743 ,
    @HotBoxghost2743@lemmy.ml avatar

    ClamAV is really only used to check for cross virus contamination. It’s a tool that checks for windows malware inside of Linux.

    Linux doesn’t need any malware software. The way Linux runs and works is already way more secure in itself, almost everything you’ll ever download is pre compiled intro software repositories that are checked constantly.

    The only way you’ll catch a virus on Linux is being dumb and clicking ads or downloading something from untrusted sources like websites that could be fake but look real.

    molcap ,

    I have clamav installed, can I disable livescan? I use it mainly for data I will transfer to windows computers to make sure it’s safe

    jhansonxi , (edited )

    ESET Endpont Antivirus for Linux

    I haven’t used on-access scanning for years but I remember Dazuko was used by multiple AV devs to provide it.

    Gamey ,

    Unless you are in a cooperate environment or very careless with the stuff you download and commands you run you shouldn’t need one!

    skullgiver , (edited )
    @skullgiver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl avatar

    deleted_by_author

    •
    Gamey ,

    I generally agree but the comparison can’t be made that directly in my opinion because the small userbase of desktop Linux alone helps a lot there and the addition of repositories and Flathub do so too!

    HotBoxghost2743 ,
    @HotBoxghost2743@lemmy.ml avatar

    There are way more viruses written for windows than there is for Linux

    1. Linux users find viruses and they report them and then everyone works on a fix for it and it gets patched as soon as possible. This is why open sourced code is good.
    2. Windows takes forever to fix or patch viruses most of the time they probably dont even care.

    Everything virus related or even bug related gets patched almost immediately under Linux

    Also… Everything you install on Linux is pre compiled and ore configured inside a package manager and these packages get checked constantly for bugs and viruses. Theres almost no need to install anything on Linux from websites that could be compromised

    Out of the 13 years I have been using Linux I haven’t Once caught a virus but I also study malware and write malware so I also understand it more on a deep level.

    But honestly it’s very hard to catch a virus on Linux

    Hexadecimalkink ,

    Dr Web for linux. Run it once a week.

    drwankingstein ,

    Currently I don’t like any of the common AV solutions, ClamAV is the best we have and has great signature based antivirus, with many excellent third party virus signatures (I even use it on windows). however ClamAV has no heuristic based capabilities which means it’s lacking quite a bit in that regard.

    I really wish we had a decent hurestics based AV solution oriented to consumers but afaik none really exist that are any good.

    bushvin , (edited )

    I wouldn’t recommend using anti-virus software. It usually creates a lot more overhead, plus it usually mimics existing solutions already in linux. The only viruses I have ever caught using an anti-virus software on Linux are the test viruses to see if all is working fine.

    Anyway, here’s my 20+ enterprise experience recommendations with Linux :

    • enable secure boot: will disable launching non-signed kernel modules (prevent root kits)
    • enable firewall: and only allow ports you really need.
    • SELinux: it is getting better, and it will prevent processes to access resources out of their scope. It can be problematic if you don’t know it (and it is complex to understand). But if it doesn’t hinder you, don’t touch it. I do not know AppArmor, but it is supposed to be similar.
    • disable root over ssh: or only allow ssh keys, or disable ssh altogether if you do not need it.
    • avoid using root: make sure you have a personal account set up with sudo rights to root WITH password.
    • only use trusted software: package managers like apt and rpm tend to have built in functionality to check the state and status of your installed software. Use trusted software repositories only. Often recommended by the distro maintainers. Stay away from use this script scripts unless you can read them and determine if they’re the real thing.

    Adhering to these principles will get you a long way!

    edit: added section about software sources courtesy of @dragnucs

    01189998819991197253 ,
    @01189998819991197253@infosec.pub avatar

    And when in doubt, upload the file to virustotal.

    pglpm ,
    @pglpm@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

    Thank you for the advice!

    Firewall on Linux is something I still don’t understand, and explanations found on Internet have always confused me. Do you happen to know some good tutorial to share? Or maybe one doesn’t need to do anything at all in distros like Ubuntu?

    Regarding ssh: you only mean incoming ssh, right?

    toikpi ,

    Firewall - While this tutorial is Ubuntu 16.04 it should work current versions of Ubuntu linuxbabe.com/…/getting-started-gufw-ubuntu-16-04It should work for other distributions once you change the package manager.

    bushvin ,

    ebtables and iptables can be very complex. And I failed my 1st RHCE exam because of them. But once you learn, you will never unlearn, as they are quite beautifully crafted. You just need to get into the mindset of the people who wrote the tools…

    Look into firewalldIt has a rather simplified cli interface: firewall-cmd

    The manpages will tell you a lot.

    firewall-cmd —add-service=sshWill open the ports for your ssh daemon until you reload your firewall or reboot your system firewall-cmd —permanent —add-service=sshWill open the ssh ports until you remove them

    firewall-cmd —list-allWill show you the current firewall config

    kool_newt ,

    Try nftables directly, it’s simple and straightforward, scripting syntax is easy.

    c1177johuk ,

    Another simpler frontend for iptables I think is well suited for desktop environemnts is ufw. It does what it’s supposed to do and is extremely simple to use

    bushvin ,

    I personally do not know ufw, but if it does what it must, then you’re solid.

    Linux is also about choices: do stuff the way you choose to, and makes you comfortable.

    bushvin ,

    Yes, usually you configure your endpoint firewall to block incoming traffic, while allowing all outgoing.

    Unless you’re in a very secure zone, like DMZ’s.

    HotBoxghost2743 ,
    @HotBoxghost2743@lemmy.ml avatar

    What don’t you completely understand about Linux firewall? I don’t mind helping you learn

    pglpm ,
    @pglpm@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

    Thank you everyone, also @bushvin @toikpi.

    For example, if I open my settings (I’m on Ubuntu+KDE) I don’t see any firewall settings to configure. So I expect this is automatically done by the OS, but maybe I’m wrong. A bit surprised that the system itself doesn’t recommend using a firewall, to be honest.

    Many firewall tutorials start speaking about “your server”. Then I wonder: is this really for me? I don’t have a server. Or do I?

    I now see that the tutorial from @toikpi gives a better explanation, cheers! So I see it’s good to have a firewall simply because one connects to public wifis from time to time.

    I see that both UFW and firewalld are recommended… is it basically OK whichever I choose?

    HotBoxghost2743 ,
    @HotBoxghost2743@lemmy.ml avatar

    The main one everybody uses at least from my knowledge and from what I’ve used over the last 13 years is UFW. That is what you want to use.

    A firewall is very important not just for being on public Wi-Fi connections. A firewall is your extra layer of protection

    I don’t know what Distro you run. But it’s almost the same for each one

    digitalocean.com/…/how-to-set-up-a-firewall-with-…

    UFW is installed by default on Ubuntu. If it has been uninstalled for some reason, you can install it with sudo apt install ufw.

    Using IPv6

    sudo nano /etc/default/ufw

    That command should come back with this

    IPV6=yes

    Save and close the file. Now, when UFW is enabled, it will be configured to write both IPv4 and IPv6 firewall rules. However, before enabling UFW, we will want to ensure that your firewall is configured to allow you to connect via SSH. Let’s start with setting the default policies.

    Setting up default policies

    sudo ufw default deny incoming sudo ufw default allow outgoing

    These commands set the defaults to deny incoming and allow outgoing connections. These firewall defaults alone might suffice for a personal computer, but servers typically need to respond to incoming requests from outside users. We’ll look into that next.

    To configure your server to allow incoming SSH connections, you can use this command:

    
<span style="color:#323232;">sudo ufw allow ssh
</span>

    This will create firewall rules that will allow all connections on port 22, which is the port that the SSH daemon listens on by default. UFW knows what port allow ssh means because it’s listed as a service in the /etc/services file.

    However, we can actually write the equivalent rule by specifying the port instead of the service name. For example, this command works the same as the one above:

    
<span style="color:#323232;">sudo ufw allow 22
</span>

    If you configured your SSH daemon to use a different port, you will have to specify the appropriate port. For example, if your SSH server is listening on port 2222, you can use this command to allow connections on that port:

    
<span style="color:#323232;">sudo ufw allow 2222
</span>

    To enable UFW, use this command:

    
<span style="color:#323232;">sudo ufw enable
</span>
    bushvin ,

    The main one everybody uses at least from my knowledge and from what I’ve used over the last 13 years is UFW. That is what you want to use.

    I could easily say that for firewalld… 😃

    Ufw is typically available/pre-installed with Debian based systems (Debian, Ubuntu, zzz), while Firewalld is typically available on Red Hat Enterprise Linux and derivates (Fedora, CentOS, Rocky, …)

    But it boils down to what you prefer, really.

    HotBoxghost2743 ,
    @HotBoxghost2743@lemmy.ml avatar

    I know all this already. But I also use arch and have been for the last 6+ years and I use ufw lol

    bushvin ,

    I see that both UFW and firewalld are recommended… is it basically OK whichever I choose?

    Yes. Whichever works for you should be fine. In the end you should be able to manage it

    ChonkaLoo ,
    @ChonkaLoo@lemmy.world avatar

    go with firewalld ufw floods dmesg with useless messages

    hevov ,

    I don’t think you need to configure your firewall. Firewalls are usualy used to block incomming connectings. Usualy a Firewall that blocks all incomming connections is already active on your modem/router. Adding exception to the modem/router Firewall usualy happen through port forwords.

    pglpm ,
    @pglpm@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

    @bushvin @toikpi @hevov @ChonkaLoo @HotBoxghost2743 @c1177johuk (I’m surely forgetting someone, sorry)

    Thank you ALL for the great advice and guides! I’m writing from behind a laptop firewall now, and don’t notice anything :) It was smoother than I expected. In the end I used UFW because it was already installed, but I’ll take a look at firewalld too in some days! I don’t have any incoming ssh connections (not a server), so I didn’t need to worry about that :)

    Really great people here at Lemmy :)

    HotBoxghost2743 ,
    @HotBoxghost2743@lemmy.ml avatar

    You’re welcome friend!

    shotgun_crab ,

    Common sense. ClamAV exists, but I have no idea if it’s worth it

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