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troyunrau , in Is the "Tromatz" bioelectric wave toothbrush legit, or snake oil?
@troyunrau@lemmy.ca avatar

Using bioelectric microcurrent waves to disturb the biological metabolic reaction and structure of bacteria that forms an impenetrable biofilm

Well, it certainly sounds like jargon designed to obfuscate the actual process. At a minimum they’re relying on scientific opacity to render a buyer “convinced because it sounds smart”.

I’m always skeptical of these things. Anything that can truly destroy the biological elements that make up plaque bacteria will also likely destroy the cells in your gums. So you’re left with either a very mild human-cells safe process that is so mild that it also does little to nothing to the other things, or you actually have a dangerous process that is also dangerous to your human cells. Like drinking bleach to cure COVID… I’d rather that, if they are doing anything at all here, it’s entirely placebo (beyond the usual brushing effects).

darrencope OP ,

This is an excellent point. Thank you. Seems safe to call this one snake oil for sure!

GiuseppeAndTheYeti , in Is the "Tromatz" bioelectric wave toothbrush legit, or snake oil?

https://midwest.social/pictrs/image/b46f5085-9bce-4281-b0a4-8a009aa52010.jpeg

This is the customer photo they decided to go with. Just look at those nails 🤢

That should tell you everything you need to know, but if you still aren’t sure, it’s snake oil.

macrocarpa , in Is the "Tromatz" bioelectric wave toothbrush legit, or snake oil?

There’s very, very little else out there aside from their own website that I can find.

This is a strong clue

darrencope OP ,

Agreed, which is why I was looking for confirmation.

Telorand , in Is the "Tromatz" bioelectric wave toothbrush legit, or snake oil?

I’m not an expert, but I clicked on the link to the studies and got this jargle:

At PAIST (ProxiHealthcare Advanced Institute for Science and Technology), our in-house research laboratory, we continuously expand our research on…

Emphasis mine. This is a huge red flag. Additionally, they don’t have basic links to the studies in reputable journals. You have to email them to get the studies, which makes me suspicious that it has any kind of objective peer review.

I did find this 2016 paper, however. No idea if Science Direct is reputable. The notable section is this:

For the biofilm treatment, an electric signal with increased total electrical energy, 0.25 V amplitude sinusoidal signal at 10 MHz with a 0.25 V DC offset, was applied in combination with low doses of the antibiotic gentamicin (10 μg/mL) for the BE.

They’re essentially trying to do the same thing here, with Fluoride being their analogous antibiotic. The electricity at that frequency is supposed to break up a protective “biofilm” the bacteria produces, ostensibly allowing the fluoride to do its work.

However, I fail to see how it’s significantly better than just brushing your teeth, which is what the brushing is supposed to do. Furthermore, what happens to plaque? Or the dead bacteria? Does it just stay on your teeth?

The inventor is a PhD Electrical Engineer, so this just seems like an over-engineered toothbrush to me.

darrencope OP ,

Thanks; I appreciate your thoughts on this! I did miss the ‘in-house’ part in my initial read, and I agree that is the major red flag! Essentially, enough to end the discussion IMHO.

milkisklim , in Has a vaccuum chamber ever been used for desalination?

Honestly there is never any shame about sharing what you’ve learned. I didn’t ever think about this and now I’ve learned something. Keep asking questions and searching for answers!

CaptainMcMonkey OP ,

I mean, my last question was about crapping my space pants, so maybe I shouldn’t aim too high, lol.

WalrusByte ,
@WalrusByte@lemmy.world avatar

I laughed pretty hard at this comment! Shoot for the moon, and if you miss, you’ll crap your pants among the stars!

cron , in Has a vaccuum chamber ever been used for desalination?

According to your link, this is actually used in big plants:

Vacuum distillation is often used in large industrial plants as an efficient way to remove salt from ocean water, in order to produce fresh water. This is known as desalination. The ocean water is placed under a vacuum to lower its boiling point and has a heat source applied, allowing the fresh water to boil off and be condensed.

CrayonRosary , in Has a vaccuum chamber ever been used for desalination?

Leaving this hear to display my shame.

This is your real shame.

CaptainMcMonkey OP ,

I appreciate you’re help in pointing that out! I know its easy too get lazy and skip proof reading. I went back and changed it so its like it was never they’re! Its the principal of the matter.

lobelia581 ,

i see what you did their

MxM111 ,

You should have written "you're" to share the shame.

Steve , in Has a vaccuum chamber ever been used for desalination?

I could be wrong, but iirc even tho you can boil the water at lower temperature, it still takes the same amount of energy to change phase, so the efficiency gain isnt as spectacular as you might expect.

Brokkr ,

The energy to change phase, the latent heat of vaporization, does decreases. Enough such that the ambient temperature is able to supply sufficient heat for vaporization (that is, boiling). The latent heat of vaporization is temperature and pressure dependent for most materials.

Steve ,

Akshuly, the charts I can find on the subject of enthalpy of vaporization vs pressure say the opposite- it increases at lower pressure

For example: researchgate.net/…/The-enthalpy-of-vaporization-s…

Brokkr ,

I could have gotten it backwards. Depends on how the system is being defined and which direction the heat is going.

Steve ,

I do agree that at some point ambient temperature does the job, which is obviously super convenient.

athos77 , in Has a vaccuum chamber ever been used for desalination?

Leaving this here to display my shame.

Why be ashamed? You had an idea that's probably never occurred to the majority of the people on this planet, and you asked for validation. A) that's original thinking and b) that's the first steps in science: I have an idea, is it reasonable, how can I experiment with it? I think this is a fantastic post!

CaptainMcMonkey OP ,

Self depreciation is a load bearing coping mechanism. I’m not sure I can turn it off.

SharkEatingBreakfast ,
@SharkEatingBreakfast@sopuli.xyz avatar

🫂

4am ,

2meirl

CanadaPlus ,

Yeah, OP didn’t even phrase it like nobody else could have thought of it, which is a frequent pitfall for these kinds of questions. The experts that can give the best answers hate that. It’s implicitly saying their years of study aren’t worth much.

Steve , in Is the "Tromatz" bioelectric wave toothbrush legit, or snake oil?

“The new TROMATZWAVE® technology uses a hybrid electrostatic force, simultaneously imposing both AC and DC on a micro frequency of 0.7 V to disturb the electric charges and subsequently break the EPS barrier”

This is mostly gibberish, especially the part where they describe a frequency in volts. (Completely incorrect)

xkforce , in Has a vaccuum chamber ever been used for desalination?

You could but the reality is that using a semipermeable membrane and a difference in pressure is more energy efficient.

CanadaPlus , (edited ) in Is the "Tromatz" bioelectric wave toothbrush legit, or snake oil?

Based just on the name even, snake oil. WTF is a “bioelectric wave”?

Omega_Jimes , in Is the "Tromatz" bioelectric wave toothbrush legit, or snake oil?

Oh man, someone send this to Mhedi at ElectroBoom! I want to see him make an AC toothbrush!

missing_forklift , in Attempting to freeze matter under extreme pressure?

You’re thinking of gases. In condensed phases energy is just stored as a potential energy coming from the fact that molecules are too close to each other (going left of that minimum en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lennard-Jones_potential). You don’t have gases under such conditions, they condense

Jeredin OP ,

@missing_forklift gave me the answer that I was originally after. Still, thank you for replying to my question.

missing_forklift , (edited ) in Has a vaccuum chamber ever been used for desalination?

yes you can do this, however notice: this is wasteful as you have to run pump and heat from steam condensing is not recovered. You can heat up incoming water with condensing steam - this is called vapour recompression distillation. alternatively you can use heat pump to move heat around

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