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do you think the framework laptop is a good long term investment?

m.youtube.com/watch?v=u01AbiCn_Nwmental outlaw video:

hi everyone, i was planning on getting a new laptop cheaply for about 500ish but then i stumbled upon this near-totally modular laptop rhat starts out at above 1000 bucks. do you think the cheaper laptop in the long run is just a false economy and i should go for the framework or what? if you want to ask questions go ahead but im mainly concerned about the longterm financials (and how well it will keep up over time)

billiam0202 , (edited )

Hi, Framework laptop owner here!

I love my laptop. I got it back in June (13th gen Intel) and have used it near-daily ever since. It’s got a nice build quality, I like the way it looks, and the modular slots are a nice concept (though I haven’t seen a need to swap out mine- I elected for 2 x USB-C and 2 x USB-A. You also need to pay attention to which ports go where because not all the slots support USB charging). I bought the barebones laptop, and added my own RAM and SSD to it which was significantly cheaper than getting it from Framework. I currently dual boot Linux Mint and occasionally Windows 11 and have had no significant issues with either, but there are a couple of little annoyances with Mint- the light-sensor to automatically adjust the brightness and the brightness keys conflict, so one or the other or both may not work correctly.

To your real question, is it worth it? Honestly, if performance is your sole metric, then no- there are cheaper alternatives out there for comparable performance. The premium you pay for a Framework is an investment in repairability and customizability- investments that may not pay off if the company doesn’t exist in the long term. All the promises and commitments in the world to letting users have the right to fix or modify their own hardware mean nothing if there’s no one to supply parts. I was aware of this before buying mine, so I was fine accepting that risk- after all, at one point in time Tesla was risky too but now it seems they’re poised to be the charging standard for EVs- and there are a couple of higher-ups at AMD who like the concept and are invested in Framework, which means it may be around for a while. But that’s still something you should keep in mind.

That said, you said you were looking for a $500-ish laptop, and are now asking about one that will cost you over double that? It’s not for me to tell you how to spend your money, but it sounds like you saw a cool idea and want to jump on the bandwagon. You should be extra sure that what you’re looking for fits your needs within your budget and you’re not just trying to “keep up with the Joneses.”

TL;DR: If you have the money, and are okay with the risk of a small company existing long-term, and it has the performance you need, then yes, I think they’re good buys.

jackpot OP ,
@jackpot@lemmy.ml avatar

do you need to biy usb c modules as theyre already 4 usb c’s built-in. also, how do i check if a memory stick will fit in befroehand

billiam0202 ,

The memory modules are standard laptop SO-DIMM DDR4-3200 for the 13th Gen Intel (though the AMD version launching later this year will support DDR5). The storage slot is a standard M.2.

Do you absolutely need to buy the USB-C cards? Probably not, since the motherboard connections are USB-C. But you’re gonna have four gaps on the bottom of your laptop, it won’t be easy plugging or removing cables, and as someone else already said, the weight of a cord will put strain on the slot whereas the expansion cards put that strain on the case itself instead of the motherboard.

But they’re also only $9 each. The laptop itself is $1000+ and you wanna skimp out on $36 for expansion cards? If that’s where you’re looking at saving money, I’m seriously gonna suggest you look at other laptops that are much cheaper.

teawrecks ,

investments that may not pay off if the company doesn’t exist in the long term

FWIW, framework has open sourced all their schematics for building parts for their laptops. So in theory, even if they go under, other companies could continue building compatible parts.

billiam0202 ,

Yep, there is that too. However, I expect that if Framework ever goes under, nobody else would build the parts because there’s nothing stopping any other company from making them right now.

ZpAz ,

For me it’s the only laptop that might entice me from leaving “the dark side” (Apple).

Would then install some Linux distro on it though.

samwise ,
@samwise@kbin.social avatar

This is my case. I'd been apple only until framework and now I'm so glad I transitioned a couple years ago when it came out. Now I'm stoked cause instead of buying a whole new laptop I get to upgrade it with a new amd mainboard

accideath ,

If Linux supported all that proprietary software that I need (or am used to using), I’d have switched already… And in my gaming machine, I’ll be switching, if Linux finally supports HDR

ZpAz ,

Yeah, that’s mainly it indeed. For now my laptop works fine and I am not in need of a new one. But if it stops working, I might just switch. And the better than Mac gaming support would already be nice.

Animewrites ,

The Framework Laptop, as of my last knowledge update in September 2021, offers an intriguing approach to long-term laptop investment. Its modularity and customizability allow users to upgrade components like the CPU, RAM, and storage, potentially extending its lifespan and making it cost-effective over time. Whether it’s a good long-term investment depends on various factors. Consider your specific needs, the availability of replacement parts, customer support, and the compatibility of modular components with future technologies. A durable build quality is essential, and the laptop’s ability to keep up with evolving technology trends should be assessed. Your budget and available alternatives also play a role in the decision-making process.

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jackpot OP ,
@jackpot@lemmy.ml avatar

rly, chatgtp

Jayb151 ,

Not trying to poopoo on anyone here, but it seems neat… But at double your budget it’s just a neat toy. Can you afford that? If so, hell yes.

Otherwise you can find second hand laptops with great specs and upgrade that your self for cheaper.

I wish I could pull the trigger on one of these, but here I am just surfing eBay lol

Valmond ,

Yeah got a 14" ThinkPad 8gen 16GB 512GB SSD for Under 200€. Lots of connectics too. It’s crazy IMO.

I mean if OP got the money why not but economy wise nah there are better plans :-D

rufus ,

Where did you get your cheap Thinkpad?

Valmond ,

On Leboncoin, a french site a bit like eBay, or Blocket if you’re Swedish.

rufus , (edited )

Merci, then. I’m from Germany but people eBay and kleinanzeigen.de (“classified ads”/“petites annonces”) here. I suppose you bought it used at that price? I’m faced with the same choices. My old Thinkpad is going to break down, soon. The Framework laptop looks very appealing, but a refurbished (newer than mine) Thinkpad would be nice, too. I even have a company that sells refurbished computers in my city. But they currently sell similar specs like you mentioned for around 300€ (and above). Thanks for the input. I’m going to wait until they do a sale or something catches my eye on eBay.

Valmond ,

Sounds like the same type of site, and yeah I think I got lucky, I probably got twice the RAM and SSD for the price I paid.

Be patient (or chuck in some extra money) and you’ll find one too I’m sure!

BTW you can buy different keyboards who are supposedly easy to change, if you find a non-German one.

addys ,

Laptops are not long-term investments. Hardware innovation makes them obsolete almost as fast as phones. Whenever some new OS security feature comes out that depends on BIOS or chip capabilities then you need to swap motherboards (and often memory) which is the bulk of cost. Or when a new USB format comes out. Or whatever is the “flavor of the month” improvement in GPUs, Bluetooth connectivity etc. The only scenarios in which extensibility really makes sense would be SSD size, maybe battery or RAM. But if it costs double then you would be better off buying a new laptop now and then another in a few years, instead of paying up front for in order to “maybe” be able to swap some of the components later…

Waldemar_Firehammer ,

That’s the draw behind Framework, you can swap out the mobo with new ones as needed for a fraction of the price of a new laptop, and use the old mobo standalone as a server or similar.

Crashumbc ,

Download aside, this is the correct answer. this is one of those ideas that sounds good on paper. But in reality, you’re better off buying a new laptop every three years.

ExLisper ,

Is it really more modular than a ThinkPad or even professional Dell? I have an old Dell and finding replacement keyboard for it on ebay was cheap and easy. Same with battery. Changing keybaord/cpu/RAM is super easy, you can do it yourself. Bonus is that parts will be available for a very long time, there are many providers and surplus stock. Framework is nice but can you really be sure that in 5 years you will still be able to find parts easily?

huginn ,

Good luck putting a new i7 into your 7 year old Dell.

ExLisper ,

I don’t get your point. Isn’t it obvious that you should be comparing 7 year old Dell to 7 years old framework laptop and new Dell to new framework? What does you comparing old Dell to new framework prove?

huginn ,

Because the entire point of framework is that in 7 years you can keep everything and swap a new mainboard in.

Upgrading your 7 year old laptop with a 0 year old processor.

that’s the entire point of a framework laptop

With Dell you also run the risk of inadvertently buying sodimm machines that can’t even be upgraded (like the XPS 13).

You can’t buy a framework that can’t be upgraded.

ExLisper ,

Ok, that’s interesting. I guess the only thing is that there are no 7 years old framework laptops. But if the company actually survives 7 years I agree it will be a more upgradable laptop.

Smokeydope ,
@Smokeydope@lemmy.world avatar

Seems a little overpriced to me for a laptop when you can get a steam deck for 600 or a used thinkpad with very nice specs for 100-200$. This laptop has some neat features and if you have 1k to spend on a laptop I guess why go for it, but if you just want a device to do some basic computation work you can find more powerful laptops for much cheaper.

jackpot OP ,
@jackpot@lemmy.ml avatar

what is a steam deck lol

tilgare ,

It’s a handheld gaming PC a la the Nintendo Switch that runs a custom Linux distro.

Secret300 ,

Simple answer yes long answer maybe

MigratingtoLemmy ,

I’d get a cheaper laptop for $400 or so (Walmart/BestBuy have those with decent specs), add in some more RAM and swap the NVMe. True, no Coreboot (wait, do you get Framework laptops with Coreboot?), but otherwise better value for the money

Crashumbc ,

Module laptops are a niche gimmick and a waste of money.

nickwitha_k ,

For me, it’s looking to be a good choice. I enjoy hardware hacking/tinkering so, the 16 inch is going to be a great platform for me to tinker on (planning to extend the hinges and put a bunch of fun stuff on the top/kb area.

gayhitler420 , (edited )

No.

For it to be a good investment it’s value would have to go up over time or drop at a slower rate than other comparable things.

A mac is a better investment (but still not “good”) not only because they tend to hold more value over time but the used market has higher volume so there’s less chance you need to price it low or wait a long time when you’re ready to sell.

If you’re worried about the value of being able to fix it, spend less than your $500 budget on a used t480 with the processor you want, upgrade the ram to 16, 32 or 64gb, install at least one ssd and be glad that there are literally millions of inexpensive spare parts on the market and will be for at least a decade.

What framework does uniquely offer is the ability to change your complement of ports. That’s either a useless novelty or a powerful tool depending entirely upon weather you consistently swap them out and can find all the ports you need as expansions or not.

Is it worth it to not be carrying around some dongle? I don’t know.

E: the processor to get on that t480 is one of the intels.

darkevilmac ,
@darkevilmac@lemmy.zip avatar

It can be a long term investment in the same way a car is a long term investment - you can tune it up over the long term to extend it’s life but at a certain point you’ll likely have to replace some key components. The theory is that the cost of those repairs will be less than buying a whole new laptop though.

olafurp ,

When my current laptop from work runs it’s course then I’ll ask for one of these with a GPU. My current one I can change RAM and SSD. But later on I can’t just get myself a GPU, DP connector, another USB-C instead of USB-A, LAN connector, memory card reader etc etc. I also think that if I already upgrade the RAM and SSD and then want to do the processor I shouldn’t have to buy a whole new laptop. Options that allow you to bring your own RAM and M2 SSD are pretty few.

spuncertv ,

I’ve been happy with mine for a while. I’ve had some minor hiccups, but I blame myself for those because I choose to run arch on the thing. The swappable ports are a game changer for me, but that depends on the user.

When I bought it I didn’t need a powerful laptop, but I may in a few years, so it made more sense to buy something for a bit more upfront. The upgradable mainboard is a crazy value add.

I’ve also been the unfortunate owner of multiple laptops that became unusable because of a broken part that was impossible to source for replacement.

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