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TrickDacy ,
@TrickDacy@lemmy.world avatar

Hmm, still silent on Trump’s call to netanyahu though. Totally unexpected.

MTK ,

As far as I understand Israel doesn’t claim that it didn’t bomb a school area, it claims that it was filled with terrorists and had to go.

If I’m understanding this right, Israel is saying “this is the price that Gaza pays because we have to kill the terrorists” while also trying to minimize to the press how many civilians were actually caught up in these bombings.

Basically killing Hamas is above any Palestinian human rights for Israel, though I suspect that if the world wasn’t watching, the genocidal government there would actually just straight up give orders to kill them all.

NoForwardslashS ,

Aha, but the precision strike was on the small first floor window on the north side of the block. The school was evidently on the east side of the block, many many centimetres away. Please ignore surrounding blocks completely destroyed by bombs.

Damage ,

School is actually the whole block, there’s a white outline

NoForwardslashS ,

My mistake! Then that must have been the classroom with the terrorist inside.

Aceticon ,

There was a pipe going from the window all the way down to the Hama’s Tunnel under it with the terrorists.

The fighter jet of the brave Zionist tresistance just thread its way at low level between the rocket launchers of the evil Palestinians and hit that small hole causing the destruction of the entire evil outpost.

postmateDumbass ,

The kids have no right to be outside if it is not recess.

Only terrorists are outside during non recess hours.

Eheran ,

What is this supposed to tell us? Hamas used these as bases. Why shouldn’t they (both)?

Linkerbaan OP ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Do you have any evidence for that claim

nonailsleft ,

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/13/world/middleeast/hamas-gaza-israel-fighting.html

FartsWithAnAccent ,
@FartsWithAnAccent@fedia.io avatar

Don't get me wrong, fuck Netanyahu but Hamas has a well established history of using human shields, schools most definitely included:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_human_shields_by_Hamas

To claim otherwise simply isn't true.

Linkerbaan OP , (edited )
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Wow examples from 10 years ago proving they haven’t done it for a long time.

Got anything recent?

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/8f8cc3ff-e540-4783-bd4c-6aa0fb33db76.png

rockSlayer ,

That’s not true, but let’s assume it is. What’s the acceptable child to terrorist death ratio?

nonailsleft ,

3-1

FartsWithAnAccent ,
@FartsWithAnAccent@fedia.io avatar

It most certainly is true: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_human_shields_by_Hamas

Doesn't excuse the Israeli administration, but Hamas 100% uses human shields, schools included.

Honytawk ,

Israel also uses human shields.

But even if hamas did, that doesn’t mean it is the case here. Just like how it wasn’t the case when they said there is a military base under a hospital, only to find a single tunnel used to smuggle in medicine after they completely bombed it down, including its residents.

givesomefucks ,

Gaza is one of the most densely populated areas on the planet…

There’s no where anyone can be that doesn’t have a shit ton of civilians around, and due to the treatment of people who live in Gaza by Israel… A lot of people in Gaza are children.

That’s the whole reason the international community has been saying for almost a year you can’t just flatten everything.

But they keep doing it. Because Israel sees civilian deaths in Gaza as a feature, not a bug.

webghost0101 , (edited )

The question they asked is in presumption for this to be true.

Your non-answer speaks volumes.

What is the acceptable child to terrorist death ratio?

If you don’t know, the rational answer is 0 for the same reason why we dont let suspected pedophiles adopt children as a sacrifice to catch a bigger pedo ring.

BaroqueInMind ,

Acceptable child to terrorist death ratio is legitimately 2:1 and accept 3:1 only if we get to eat the children afterwards.

postmateDumbass ,

Do you have the coupon?

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

The human shield lie is dead. The majority of structures in Gaza have been bombed and rendered uninhabitable. Israel is just destroying everything indiscriminately and killing anything that moves outside the designated camps.

Was Hamas using over half of all structures in Gaza as operating bases? Get real.

It’s already known that Hamas uses tunnels, why would they even be in the buildings at this point? This is just a campaign of total destruction.

Don’t spread genocide denial.

OccamsTeapot , (edited )

The wiki says they are accused of it but lists many reports which found no evidence of this. In the current conflict there are apparently a couple of cases with hostages.

The big problem with most of these claims is that it’s “proximate” shielding being alleged, which is not when you are literally shielding someone (as in the recent cases with Israel using Palestinians, and assumedly those with Hamas using the hostages), but when you are just sat at home, in school, whatever, going about your usual business totally unaware. But you are a “shield” because the enemy decides they want to attack something near you.

This quote really sums up the rhetorical strategy:

“Israeli citizens in Tel Aviv are not classified as shields when Hamas launches rockets towards the Israel Defense Forces military command headquarters located in the city center. By sharp contrast, Palestinian civilians are cast as human shields when Israel bombs Hamas command centers and military infrastructures in Gaza. In other words, if Hamas kills Israeli civilians, it is to blame, and if Israel kills Palestinian civilians, then Hamas is also to blame, since, at least ostensibly, it is Hamas that has deployed these civilians as shields.”

It is a trick so that Israel can avoid responsibility for it’s actions. I’m not saying you are supporting Israel or denying their crimes (I know you explicitly didn’t), but this rhetoric is WAY more common than genuine instances of human shielding, which thus far has primarily been done by Israel, not Hamas.

Likewise, this isn’t excusing Hamas. Fuck them. But aside from the case with the hostages (didn’t check the reference but I trust it), there is very little evidence that Hamas does this. Most of the time it is an outright deception.

Edit: this is from the report cited by wikipedia:

A witness said that as Israeli forces advanced, the fighters phoned the Israeli police using one of the hostages as an interpreter, identified themselves as from the Qassam Brigades, and told the police that they would shoot those they held if the Israeli forces fired on them. During the standoff, the attackers forced about half the hostages into the yard of the home between Israeli forces and the fighters, according to two witnesses the New York Times interviewed. A man the attackers said was their commander took off his clothing and took Yasmin Porat, one of the hostages, outside to shield him as he surrendered to the Israelis. After the fighters fired again at the Israeli forces, an Israeli tank opened fire on the home. The fighters were killed, as well as 12 hostages who were killed in the crossfire.

So clearly it does happen. But cases are rare and on both sides of the conflict

rockSlayer , (edited )

I will need to see concrete evidence that these people were, in fact, members of the terrorist resistance before I believe claims that they were. However, we are currently assuming that all claims of terrorists being present are true for every strike. I would like you to know that I selected these strikes at random.

  • This claim states that there were 19 terrorists and 93 total killed at the Al-Tabi’in mosque and school on 08/10/24. Survivors state that most of the casualties were women and children. That means there was a 79.6% civilian casualty rate.
  • This claim states that there were 9 confirmed Hamas casualties of 40 killed at a school in the Nuseirat refugee camp on 06/06/24. The casualties were described as children and elderly, and this strike was verified by the source as using US munitions. That means there was a 77.5% civilian casualty rate.
  • This source claims that there have been (as of 07/06/24) 343 IDF soldiers killed and 38,000 confirmed Palestinian deaths with Israel claiming 1/3 of deaths are combatants. 66% civilian casualty rate since October 7th.

I will ask again: what is the acceptable child to terrorist death ratio?

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