If he doesn’t win election, I want his stans to remember this and understand that he threw it. He, or at least his staff, must know what a historically unpopular policy this is.
The dems clearly aren’t as excited about beating Trump as their voters are.
They’ll just blame the voters, like they already do.
The Dems have invested everything into Biden so they can’t change their ship, and the stans can’t admit there is any flaws, so it must be everyone else that is wrong.
I see you’ve been on Lemmy for a bit! Are the rest of you chucklefucks ready to admit Biden is also a REALLY FUCKING BAD PRESIDENT?! Global Warming? Income Inequality? Healthcare?
I don’t know where you guys see it, but I never see any stans for Biden who can’t admit his flaws like we see with Trump supporters. The only support I see for Biden is for the general election, not for him or his policies overall. I only see people being critical of Biden but saying we need to vote for him anyway. As bad as it is, there is no Palestine with Trump, there’s possibly no democracy with Trump, there’s only likely a lot of suffering for the regular people with Trump.
I see it everywhere. I’d name drop but can’t “attack the user” in this community or whatever the rule is.
It’s almost at maga levels with these people. Any criticism of Biden is met with “Why do you want Trump to win”, “Bidens policies have been so good but no one knows about them”, or “The president can’t just do things”. I always see zero willingness to admit his huge flaws and only deflection.
Sometimes we hold our nose and vote. Because the alternative is so deeply problematic our moral judgement of one is dwarfed by the moral and practical horror of the other.
Not voting against Trump is enabling even more genocide and the end of some women and minority rights so don’t pretend like you’ve got the moral high ground if your refuse to vote because of the Democrats stance on Israel.
They absolutely have the moral highground. Fuck a president that enables genocide and funds it. Saying “oh don’t be a single issue voter!” when the issue is “stop mass killings of people with a single phone call” is so out of this world, it’s just insane.
If literal genocide cannot convince liberals to consider third parties, then I’m convinced they will never support third parties. This is the duopolies Sandy Hook moment. If you see Genocide A or Genocide B and don’t seek a third option, you will never seek a third option.
Sure but that third party doesn’t exist so you knowingly letting an even worse option win thus enabling even more genocide just shows you didn’t really care about genocides in the first place
Ok, those aren’t the same thing as supporting him. I will admit I don’t care for his policies, but they have been better than I expected, which is something. Also, yeah the president doesn’t have the power to do that much alone. It requires congress to play a role, which the democrats don’t have enough control in to do. Those are extremely valid things to say, and you can say them while still being critical of Biden. It sounds like you want people to only be critical of him, which is just as bad as only supporting him. We need to understand there’s more beyond the one man or we will fail.
Saying they’re amazing is, but that’s not what you said they said.
Defending can be, but it isn’t necessarily. I’ll defend a lot of people or things that people are attacking for no reason. That said, defending someone from a legitimate critique is usually done out of support, but still sometimes it’s done out of a feeling of necessity.
Media ratings too. Every single outlet that plays on TV would love a Trump victory because it makes people pay attention who would otherwise not watch any news.
We all fully understand that. Well, most intelligent enough people do. Sure, there are some very vocal leftists calling for a boycott to the vote (as is the custom, so nothing new), but most of us know—even with leftist views—that we need to keep trump away from office. We will all just pull the lever for Biden because we have no other choice. It’s a shitty, unappealing and massively problematic choice. But we all know trump will be 10x worse on everything we have a problem with Biden doing. Not to mention, all the trans people, gay people, etc.
But that doesn’t equate to enthusiastic support for Biden. Because we all disapprove. Doesn’t mean we all don’t realize we have to vote for him. We’re just not democrats or Biden fans, so we complain.
But the other side of that coin is that this kind of shit will stop a not insignificant portion of people from voting for him, not understanding what another trump presidency means. Because there are a lot of performative leftists who think holding up an “well I didn’t vote for him” badge is something to be proud of…while LGBTQIA+ people are pushed back into the shadows, sent to conversion therapy, can’t get healthcare, etc. Doing shit like this will turn those people off. And it’s understandable—in a way. Because how can you justify lending your support to someone supporting genocide? Is it really noble to vote blue while they actively aid in the slaughter of Palestinians? Or while they treat immigrants like shit or keep arming police departments to the teeth with war machines and keep passing pro-surveillance laws and working with private equity and participating in every corporatist neoliberal tradition that sickens us all?
Well, it’s the basic concept of harm reduction. Not voting doesn’t help anyone but the non-voter because they get to hop on that high horse any time something goes wrong. It’s an insanely privileged choice, and actually will end up hurting a lot of people if trump wins. That’s the opposite of harm reduction. For example, making drugs legal and handing out free, clean needles, you’re technically supporting people’s destructive addictions. But you’re reducing the harm that inevitable presence of addiction can bring. It’s a good thing to do.
Even if it makes us sick to vote for Biden, neglecting to keep trump from the levers of power is so insanely self-destructive and harmful to vulnerable people and maybe even literally a mistake we will never, ever right. We have a desperate climate emergency on our hands. Four years (if we can actually get him out of office after that) of trump climate policy will literally kill us all.
I love how I called out that you absolute shitheels love blaming everyone else when the dems trip on their own dicks and hand victory to someone like Trump, and your immediate reaction is to blame me for pointing it out.
Do you understand what’s happening here? Are you able to look at your own behaviour? Did you even understand what I said?
Dems lose, blame voters, move rightward, repeat. At some point they themselves will be fascists and their supporters will urge everyone to vote for the ‘softer’ fascist. They see no issue in continuing this cycle and pledging their votes with no conditions or red lines, exactly like how Biden funds Israel. Why expect them to do what you want if youve signaled you’ll never leave their side?
To be held in esteem by Israel - at any point in its history - is a deep stain on any reputation to put it mildly. Anyone with humanity is an enemy to fascists and ethnostates.
Look mate I agree that Israel is probably committing genocide against the Palestinians. But that doesn’t mean that everyone that Israel has ever liked is tainted.
The Nazis tainted everything they touched, I don’t see why this should be any different. And yes, the comparison is apt.
Very few things in life are black and white - this is.
You either support genocide or you don’t. You either support an increasingly fascistic apartheid ethnostate or you don’t. Lines are notoriously difficult to draw but they’re extremely clear cut here.
Israel and the Zionist project gains legitimacy by proximity to genuinely honorable people like the ones you brought up - it’s rhetorical propaganda.
I appreciate I’m taking a strong stance in my wording here but for gods sake, man - look at the whole thing. A dying empire is dusting off old world colonialism, complete with unabashed ethnic cleansing and the entire Western world is to-the-hilt complicit. History and systemic decline is being written. I don’t consider my language an overreaction - at all.
I don’t think Jesse Owens was tainted just because Hitler congratulated him.
I don’t think people that resisted the Nazis are tainted just because Israel thanks them.
That’s why I disagreed with your initial comment.
Just as we shouldn’t consider Jesse Owens to be tainted by Hitler’s endorsement, we shouldn’t consider anti-Nazi movements to be tainted by Israel’s endorsement.
That’s all we seem to disagree on.
Yes, we should be skeptical of Israel positioning WW2 heroes as champions of Israel’s interpretation of Zionism.
Also for clarification: I’m opposed to Israel’s apparent genocide of the Palestinians. I think Israel’s crimes are more similar to the Americo-Canadian genocide of North America’s first nations than with the Nazi genocide of European Jews and other marginalized minorities. Ie Israel isn’t doing “murder factory” genocide, it’s doing “encroachment and suppression” genocide (and starvation, and persecution). Also similar to what Russia is doing to Ukraine.
He’ll probably have a street named after him in his honor and probably on the land where that university used to be, after israel steals that land too.
Israel has no idea how much they have destroyed their credibility for an entire generation.
I used to read articles about Middle East issues and think that things I was reading in Al Jazeera or similar publications were a little biased. For the most part I used to think that Israel was at least being a good faith actor in their decision making.
Now, I literally do not trust anything that is published in Israel; nor anything that the Israeli government claims is true or said has happened.
If Israeli Times or IdF or Israeli government said that the sky was blue, I would literally go outside to double check, because obviously something weird is going on and the sky is no longer blue.
I also have learned to meet the things Biden says with skepticism. Until Biden takes concrete action to punish Israel or stop the genocide, he will not have my vote. Nor millions of votes from other democrats and Americans whose families are affected by this genocide. A whole generation of young people have had the curtains pulled back. Thank goodness.
Israel and the United States have been lying this whole time. Forcing an apartheid occupation for half a century.
It’s a funny example of Gell-Mann amnesia at play I suppose.
Just waiting for that Russian military with low morale and hollowed out by corruption to bring us that imminent victory in Ukraine we’ve been promised any day now for the past two years. Keep believing in victory citizen, it’s right around the corner!
I guess my original point was just agreeing with you on your main point. I figured I was supporting your position by pointing out the media dishonesty extended farther than just Israeli publications. The Ukraine point was a throwaway of another example I thought was fairly straightforward, but whatever, it’s cool, we don’t need to continue this conversation.
Cool. Thanks for fucking over trans people in the United States with your non-vote of moral superiority. We’ll go ahead and reap those consequences for you. At least the other guy will do right by Gaza I’m sure since that is the priority here.
Just as an FYI, russia likes to give its hacking groups cutesy bear names, like “cozy” bear and “fancy” bear.
OPs name is likely a coincidence, but it could also be some russian enjoying themselves in the open. Dont take everything you read on social media at face value.
So you are saying that there is no difference between Biden and Trump on Gaza. So if it is something you care about then there is no point in voting for either.
Criticism of Biden is not an endorsement of Trump.
I agree. The person i replied to seems to think that any criticism of Biden is an endorsement of Trump. The only people who seem to want “mild” conservative policy are Democrats. No conservative voters are going to vote for a center-right (by American standards) Democrat over a Republican. Democrats need to offer an actual alternative, nit just toned down Republican talking points.
Has it? He was a senator for Decades because DuPont backed him, and he was Obama’s VP pick because he was from Pennsylvania originally. He ate absolute shit every time he ran in the Democratic presidental primary until 2020 where he coasted on Trump being the worst president in 100 years and his popularity as Obama’s VP.
I just mean (for bidens whole career) the democrats saying you have to vote for us because the other side is ten times worse.
It’s just that in this case the same old rhetoric shows the absolute disaster this idea is…. Vote for Biden because genocide is better than super sized genocide that Trump would bring
Also I am fairly certain Biden is from Delaware not Pennsylvania and Delaware is known for having awesome corporate sponsors, but that’s without me looking it up
The person i replied to seems to think that any criticism of Biden is an endorsement of Trump.
Biden should absolutely be criticised for the Palestine genocide and other things as needed. But that’s not what you did. You said you’d not vote for him which effectively supports Trump. If Trump had shown any indication that he’d handle this (or any important) issue any better, then sure, that could make sense. But this is just cutting everyone’s nose off to spite your face.
This is how Trump won last time. I know you can’t help yourself but please, just try to say nothing at all because this arrogant drivel is exactly why the Dems have trouble turning out their vote.
Al Jazeera has long been the best source for news on anything happening in the Middle East (aside from Qatar since that is who funds them). Thr sad truth if the matter is that Israel has been ethnically cleansing Palestine for the past 70 years and Western media has finally decided they can’t whitewash it anymore.
Perhaps it’s not a “israeli” war? Perhaps if there would be no Gaza this military machine would burn Syria, Lebanon, what ever? Perhaps this is power and money? Perhaps it’s about nothing more?
Why are we giving $14b to one of the wealthiest nations in existence?
I’m never voting for an establishment democrat again. I don’t care what the tribalists think. They don’t want to solve these problems, just perpetuate them.
Bullets are a lot more expensive than bandages most of the time.
(Edit: that is not to say that this is a reasonable allocation of resources in this situation. The appropriate ratio would be zero bullets and a couple dozen new, fully equipped hospitals and several hundred well-stocked kitchens.)
Notably, the new budget proposal does not include funding for the UN relief agency for Palestinian refugees UNRWA, which is currently being investigated after 12 of its members allegedly participated in Hamas’s October 7 terror onslaught.
timesofisrael.com
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