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telegraph.co.uk

Nakoichi , to worldnews in Ukraine-Russia war live: 'Europe could die', warns Macron as he warns against relying on self-interested US
@Nakoichi@hexbear.net avatar

Good

frightful_hobgoblin , (edited ) to worldnews in Ukraine-Russia war live: 'Europe could die', warns Macron as he warns against relying on self-interested US

I’m sorta respecting Macron’s drive to make Europe plough it’s own furrow away from the USA.

On the other hand, I don’t trust Macron and his ilk to lead Europe. I trust them barely more than I trust the USA. I don’t like Macron’s approach to Ukraine or his domestic policies. At least he is cool about Taiwan tho.

SturgiesYrFase ,
@SturgiesYrFase@lemmy.ml avatar

Isn’t France buying an ungodly amount of Russian gas?

frightful_hobgoblin ,

I don’t know. Is it?

bazingabrain ,
@bazingabrain@hexbear.net avatar

deleted_by_author

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  • Maoo ,
    @Maoo@hexbear.net avatar

    Europe overall is still buying tons of Russian fossil fuels, they’re just overpaying for it due to sanctions. A high bill is exactly what that entails!

    Isn’t it cool to be directly paying for NATO aggression?

    floofloof ,
    dkr567 , to worldnews in Ukraine-Russia war live: 'Europe could die', warns Macron as he warns against relying on self-interested US

    Oh look if it isn’t consequences of my actions - western Europe.

    PolandIsAStateOfMind , to worldnews in Ukraine-Russia war live: 'Europe could die', warns Macron as he warns against relying on self-interested US
    @PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml avatar

    Macron week ago: SEND TROOPS TO UKRAINE

    Macron now: maybe better distance ourselves from the USA

    Is anyone even taking this guy seriously? I mean i kind of understand he will say anything at all that have a slight chance of lessening the internal contradictions in France, but please tell me not even liberals have memory this short?

    yogthos OP ,
    @yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

    To be fair, maybe he actually thought that US would back his idiotic plan, and when was told to go pound sand that’s where he flipped to US is unreliable narrative.

    frightful_hobgoblin ,

    he flipped to US is unreliable narrative.

    Here he is saying it five months ago: politico.eu/…/emmanuel-macron-china-america-press…

    In March 2022: www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/…/2547489

    In Sept 2020: politico.eu/…/emmanuel-macron-europe-dependency-u…

    yogthos OP ,
    @yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

    Fair enough, it’s not the first time he’s made noises like this, but US not backing his hare brained scheme is likely the reason behind the latest outburst.

    frightful_hobgoblin ,

    It’s not an “outburst”, it’s his consistent line. He’s staking his career on this “autonomous Europe” bet

    web.archive.org/…/20230411-president-macron-to-vi…

    web.archive.org/…/74-percent-of-europeans-agree-w…

    bazingabrain ,
    @bazingabrain@hexbear.net avatar

    deleted_by_author

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  • andrew_bidlaw ,
    @andrew_bidlaw@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Germany, UK and France were something like the centers of influence in the EU. Since UK brexited, Macron tries to capitalize on France being the one calling the shots, but doing it in a pretty embarassing manner. Remember his call to Putin early in 2022? Whatever one thinks about the subject of the call, he ran rogue from the EU and tried to be the frontrunner of EU-Russia relationships and probably claim the title of the peacemaker. Predictably, the only things he’s got are a tacker’s lecture and international WTF. And he also does this to the US, making himself look like a middleman in a EU-US dialogue. He looks like a Napoleon from historically incorrect jokes about his height, but not being a Napoleon-tier historical figure himself, but rather a side character. The type you skip all dialogs with.

    PolandIsAStateOfMind ,
    @PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml avatar

    Except the effect of his “autonomous Europe” policy is Europe being more and more dependent and more and more sabotaged by USA. Sure, Germany have more to say about it and they are gargling on US boot totally lately, but France influence is almost as big.

    I guess they had a decent shot at it in the last two decades, but they blew it completely, and considering what Hollande and Merkel did with Minsk agreements, maybe they were never really intended to do it anyway.

    yogthos OP ,
    @yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

    There’s a big difference between rhetoric and policy. The policy Macron is pursuing is ensuring the opposite of independent Europe.

    Maoo ,
    @Maoo@hexbear.net avatar

    No he’s just inconsistent, trying to appease different audiences.

    yogthos OP ,
    @yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

    yeah that’s the most likely scenario

    mathemachristian ,

    Its the same eu army back and forth that has been going on since november 2012 i think, its just a talking point to further that goal.

    coarse ,

    How does one statement cancel out the other?

    He could be talking about sending non-US troops to Ukraine.

    PolandIsAStateOfMind ,
    @PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml avatar

    He did talked about sending French troops, but that move only really benefits USA. If he wanted to distance France from USA he should first and foremost start with the most pressing things on US agenda - condemn Israeli genocide using all means available to sanction Israel, and at least try to act for a peace in Ukraine instead of constant stoking and escalating the conflict.

    coarse ,

    How is condemning Israel relevant to the protection of Europe?

    He’s saying they should be relying on themselves instead of the US. For Europeans, what goes on in Israel is many layers removed from what’s going on in Ukraine.

    Maoo ,
    @Maoo@hexbear.net avatar

    Because it alienates them from their vassalizing lords, the United States.

    Europe is currently stripping itself for parts for US interests. It is most in their interest to have an independent foreign policy but they’re so stuck in their imperialist wager of extracting wealth from the poorest countries (using the US as the global seat for this regime) it’s unimaginable to Euro liberals. They’re now so culturally ties to absolute nonsense about “Western values” and xenophobia (racism) that they can’t even bail themselves out of this situation.

    bazingabrain , to worldnews in Ukraine-Russia war live: 'Europe could die', warns Macron as he warns against relying on self-interested US
    @bazingabrain@hexbear.net avatar

    deleted_by_author

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  • coarse ,

    ?

    PanArab , to worldnews in Ukraine-Russia war live: 'Europe could die', warns Macron as he warns against relying on self-interested US
    @PanArab@lemmy.ml avatar

    The US will consume Europe to fight Russia and China.

    yogthos OP ,
    @yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar
    DivineChaos100 , to worldnews in Ukraine-Russia war live: 'Europe could die', warns Macron as he warns against relying on self-interested US
    @DivineChaos100@hexbear.net avatar

    Promise?

    ShimmeringKoi , to worldnews in Ukraine-Russia war live: 'Europe could die', warns Macron as he warns against relying on self-interested US
    @ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net avatar

    …but that is a sacrifice I am willing to make

    card797 , to worldnews in Ukraine-Russia war live: 'Europe could die', warns Macron as he warns against relying on self-interested US

    I grow tired of paying for the bulk of European security. Get your own damn army.

    I mean that they need a unified European Army. Two powerhouses will be better than 1.

    bradorsomething ,

    A European Army would be an interesting outcome, america would save a lot when it lost it’s bases there and became a regional power. Sure, the US would lose any say in a lot of matters that concern it, but they would learn, like the UK, to complain loudly and be ignored.

    gnuhaut ,

    It’s not going to be something useful like a power house though. It’ll be a bunch of dudes simulating how to blow up poor third-world peasants in the most expensive way possible. In case the market demands that particular skillset. And who is going to command this lot? Von der Leyen? I’d rather not give an army to the aristocratic horse lady (again). She probably always wanted to order a cavalry charge against some peasants, so let’s not give her the chance.

    PolandIsAStateOfMind ,
    @PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml avatar

    She probably always wanted to order a cavalry charge against some peasants

    Goedendag to her then i guess

    Olifant , to worldnews in Ukraine-Russia war live: 'Europe could die', warns Macron as he warns against relying on self-interested US

    Of course Europe should stop relying on U.S military especially when it’s in danger of once again falling under the control of Putin’s favourite useful orange idiot.

    yogthos OP ,
    @yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

    I love how blueAnon keep peddling their discredited Russiagate conspiracy theory.

    Olifant ,

    Conspiracy theory now? So the Ukranians are fighting imaginary invaders?

    yogthos OP ,
    @yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

    The regime the west installed in Ukraine is literally grabbing people off the streets to fight in this proxy war nytimes.com/…/ukraine-military-recruitment.html

    Omega_Haxors , to worldnews in Ukraine-Russia war live: 'Europe could die', warns Macron as he warns against relying on self-interested US

    God yes please. The more I hear about that shithole the more I see just how much they don’t deserve exist. They out-racist America in a lot of cases.

    Docus , to world in Onboard the Filipino coast guard ship attacked by China

    Downvoted for paywall link

    doublejay1999 , to world in Onboard the Filipino coast guard ship attacked by China
    @doublejay1999@lemmy.world avatar

    Downvoted for far right propaganda rag

    crazyCat , to world in Onboard the Filipino coast guard ship attacked by China

    Top of the article:

    Nicola Smith, The Telegraph’s Asia Correspondent, was onboard a Philippine Coast Guard ship accompanying fishermen near the disputed Scarborough Shoal in the South China Sea on Tuesday when her vessel was attacked by the China Coast Guard

    I was standing on the deck of a Philippine Coast Guard shipwhen a Chinese vessel opened fire with its water cannon.

    The powerful jets of water initially looped into the air – but within seconds they had begun to batter our craft, pounding down on the stern of the ship.

    There were moments of chaos: Filipino crew members dived for cover, screaming instructions to each other…

    doublejay1999 ,
    @doublejay1999@lemmy.world avatar

    Ship attacked with water ☠️

    BertramDitore , to world in Macron invites Xi to favourite Pyrenees holiday destination
    @BertramDitore@lemmy.world avatar

    I’m not French, and my opinion is based on pretty much nothing but a smattering of headlines, but I really dislike Macron. He strikes me as an opportunistic little boy trying to make everyone happy while pissing off his parents (the French electorate) at nearly every turn. He tries to push his way into the global spotlight by meeting with Putin and Xi and thinks he looks like some neutral peacemaker, but we never really see any results other than a small boost to his profile.

    Maybe I’m totally wrong, like I said I’m just a spectator. Maybe it’s just his face.

    best_username_ever ,

    We all do. People believed he was some kind of center-left and discovered way too late that he was a banker working for McKinsey.

    BertramDitore ,
    @BertramDitore@lemmy.world avatar

    I definitely smell the McKinsey stench now that you mention it.

    flyboy_146 ,

    Hopefully, this doesn’t break rule one and/or two too much. If so, let me know and I’ll delete.

    I think I know a little more than you about French president Macron, but if so, not by much. So here’s the blind arguing with the blind!

    Full disclaimer, this is a copypasta of the answer I got from an AI assistant:

    Certainly! Let’s explore both perspectives on French President Emmanuel Macron:

    1. Positive Perspective: Emmanuel Macron, as the French President, has made significant strides in positioning Europe as a more assertive global power. His vision for a united Europe, especially during the ongoing conflict in Ukraine, demonstrates his commitment to international stability and cooperation. Macron’s close cooperation with other world leaders, such as United States President Joe Biden, highlights his dedication to addressing global challenges, including climate change and defending democracy. Furthermore, his efforts to rejuvenate France and prepare it for crises underscore his determination to lead effectively on the world stage. Macron’s energy, international presence, and rhetorical vision have garnered him support both domestically and internationally.
    1. Critical Perspective: However, Macron’s presidency has not been without controversy. His perceived elitism, stemming from his background in finance and top universities, has alienated some segments of French society. His centralization of power and occasional gaffes, like telling an unemployed gardener to “cross the road” to find a job, have fueled class-based resentment. Additionally, his polarizing effect during the “yellow vest” protests and the visceral rejection he faces from part of the population mirror the challenges he encounters as a leader. While Macron scores well in polls on competency and presidential stature, his presidency remains divisive.

    In summary, Macron’s impact on the world stage is multifaceted, with supporters praising his global vision and critics highlighting his perceived elitism and class-based tensions. Ultimately, whether he is a good president for the world depends on individual perspectives and priorities.

    That’s what I used to help myself determine if you were a little too harsh on him. I thought it could be beneficial to share, but like I started this response with, if this is frowned upon, I’ll happily remove this!

    BertramDitore ,
    @BertramDitore@lemmy.world avatar

    I appreciate the pushback, I really do want to get a more well-rounded sense of Macron and his popularity.

    I don’t usually like LLM summaries as a general rule, but since my opinions were admittedly based on vibes and not much substance, this might be a good use for it.

    gbzm ,

    That LLM is really pro-Macron, I wouldn’t take its opinion at face value.

    The parts about defending democracy, addressing climate change, and preparing France for crises, in particular, are pretty ironic when you take into account the fact that both Amnesty International and the European Court of Human Rights have spoken up against his frankly appalling handling of the yellow vest crisis (the latter has a procedure against the French State dor acts of torture against demonstrators), that he’s been torpedoing our public health system even during the pandemic, and that his administration has been found guilty of “climatic inaction” by our own courts… The list goes on. For a while, “to Macron” in Ukrainian meant talking a lot while doing nothing. Maybe the LLM bought into the political communication.

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