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347_is_p69 OP , to linux in We have a new bikeshed: what color do you prefer or would you rather see it burn?

‘Bikeshed issue’ refers to the effect of having a discussion where everyone can easily form an opinion on. Such as choosing a paint colour for a bikeshed that needs to be painted.

I do think this standard, if successful, would trickle down to users outside enterprise settings. Similarly to how Red Hat was/is the force behind Gnome, Wayland, (if I recall correctly) pipewire, and many now ‘universal’ parts of modern linux user-space.

It’s very clear this project aims to be that force in enterprise linux. And if successful, they would determine the direction of development.

And simply put: most people prefer stuff actively developed by a full-time team of software engineers. Some of us don’t, but usually those need to adapt to the new standard, or miss out on software developed assuming such ‘standard’ userspace.

This is why I think it truly is a bikeshed issue. Everyones bike will eventually be in the shed, if the shed gets painted.

I personally am carefully optimistic, as long as the community (you and me, not just our bosses) care enough to contribute. And the organisation makes it easy and accessible.

Of course having meaningful community participation is only the first step. The community can make bad decisions or incoherent decisions, that’s part of having meaningful power.

Lastly I think the organisation knows the reputation of the companies founding it is, on average, not great. So I expect them to truly make their best to engage the community meaningfully and in good faith. Without it, I don’t think they will convince even rocky linux to switch, let alone achieve meaningful compatibility standard of any kind.

Rustmilian , (edited )
@Rustmilian@lemmy.world avatar

Similarly to how Red Hat was/is the force behind Gnome, Wayland, (if I recall correctly) pipewire, and many now ‘universal’ parts of modern linux user-space.

Wayland & Pipewire are driven by freedesktop.org not red hat. The founders of Wayland & Pipewire are/were redhat engineers, however their involvement doesn’t mean that “red hat” as an entity has control over the projects. Additionally, in the case of Wayland the founder had left redhat for Intel prior to becoming the founder.

LeFantome , to linux in CIQ, Oracle and SUSE Create Open Enterprise Linux Association for a Collaborative and Open Future

There is no such thing as “community-driven” and “RHEL compatible”. If they are actually going to do their own work to create an enterprise Linux distro, it is not going to be bug for bug compatible with RHEL. The only way to get that is to copy RHEL exactly in which case any actual “community” contribution is a bug ( deviates from the goal of being identical ).

I do not love what Red Hat has been doing lately but all this cheerleading for these companies acting entirely in their own commercial interest under the banner of “community” has been very hard to watch.

Red Hat wanted to make it a bit more work to make identical copies of their distro and to water down the claims from copycats that they are truly identical. In response, some of the copycats have joined forces. This both reduces the burden on them individually and provides an alternative source of credibility that they can rely on. In the end, despite all the fireworks, barely anything will have changed for most of us. The mechanics of how RHEL clone get built have been altered somewhat but otherwise things are mostly as they were.

xyguy , to linux in CIQ, Oracle and SUSE Create Open Enterprise Linux Association for a Collaborative and Open Future

God I really hate to see Oracle involved. Everything they touch turns into an IP lawsuit.

If they really loved open source so much they wouldn’t have close-sourced ZFS and OpenSolaris in 2010 after they were already open source.

CIQ and Rocky are solid but remember just because Oracle is the enemy of the enemy doesn’t make them even close to a friend.

sugar_in_your_tea , to linux in CIQ, Oracle and SUSE Create Open Enterprise Linux Association for a Collaborative and Open Future

I’m kinda surprised SUSE is going in on this. They kind of do their own thing, so making RHEL-compatible packages seems a little odd. But whatever, as long as openSUSE doesn’t turn into Fedora, I’m happy.

ForthEorlingas OP ,
@ForthEorlingas@lemmy.ca avatar

A little over a week ago, SUSE also announced they would be releasing their own binary compatible RHEL clone with $10 million of backing. So it looks like they were planning to take advantage of this uproar from the beginning.

sugar_in_your_tea ,

Interesting. It looks like SUSE also started an internal project some 3 years ago, so they may be quite far along in the process as well.

nixx , to linux in CIQ, Oracle and SUSE Create Open Enterprise Linux Association for a Collaborative and Open Future
@nixx@lemmy.ca avatar

Remember why CentOS (and WhiteBox) came to exist?

This is not the first time RedHat pulls that stunt, this is the reason I stick to pure Debian.

I like SUSE, but I’m hesitant of relying on another commercial entity although business requires it.

For now Deb and Ian are the safest bet and my daily driver since 2002, they have not let me down.

NanoooK ,

I’m not aware. Can you give more detail on why CentOS came to exist?

nixx , (edited )
@nixx@lemmy.ca avatar

RedHat originally had one distribution called “RedHat Linux”, not to be confused with RedHat Enterprise Linux (RHEL).

RedHat Linux was free, you can buy support if you want, and there was also RedHat Advanced Server, which was a paid subscription.

In 2002, the company rebranded Advanced Sever to RHEL and discontinued RedHat Linux, pissing off a lot of people off.

This started people working on multiple binary compatible distributions, the one that dominated the market was CentOS.

20 years later, the cycle is repeating.

umami_wasbi , to linux in CIQ, Oracle and SUSE Create Open Enterprise Linux Association for a Collaborative and Open Future

God knows what will happen 10 years down the road. I will stick with Debian.

Ederhex , to linux in CIQ, Oracle and SUSE Create Open Enterprise Linux Association for a Collaborative and Open Future

Jeez when your behaviour is making Oracle look like the good guy. I wonder how Red Hat feels about the outcome of their decision.

OsrsNeedsF2P ,

Red Hat (IBM) only sees the numbers. No emotion attached

timkenhan ,

Makes me wonder how this would affect their number.

OsrsNeedsF2P ,

Oracle has been full savage lately. From their press release on the issue 2 months ago:

By the way, if you are a Linux developer who disagrees with IBM’s actions and you believe in Linux freedom the way we do, we are hiring.

One observation for ISVs: IBM’s actions are not in your best interest. By killing CentOS as a RHEL alternative and attacking AlmaLinux and Rocky Linux, IBM is eliminating one way your customers save money and make a larger share of their wallet available to you. If you don’t yet support your product on Oracle Linux, we would be happy to show you how easy that is. Give your customers more choice.

Finally, to IBM, here’s a big idea for you. You say that you don’t want to pay all those RHEL developers? Here’s how you can save money: just pull from us. Become a downstream distributor of Oracle Linux. We will happily take on the burden

saplyng ,
@saplyng@kbin.social avatar

Wow that's pretty vicious, I'm proud(?) of Oracle (that feels wrong to say)

immibis ,

@saplyng @OsrsNeedsF2P It's just Oracle trying to get more Oracle customers as usual.

timkenhan ,

I wouldn’t be so proud.

Just opportunist Oracle being opportunist.

ForthEorlingas OP ,
@ForthEorlingas@lemmy.ca avatar

I don’t think the shareholders care a whole lot unless stuff like this actually costs them customers. I am curious to know what some of the Red Hat developers think about this whole situation, though.

Quill7513 ,

I have a friend who works for them that is currently seeking new employment and she’s been with them for 8 years. She loved it there before

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