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lemmy.ml

Foresight , to linux in What are the main challenges in Linux adoption for New users, and how can it be addressed?

Give them arch

Foresight , to programmerhumor in Programming Languages

College literally tried teaching us programming with JavaScript…

maltroth ,

It’s an easily accessible language, I started to learn with JavaScript as well. Easy to teach the basics.

LillianVS , to mildlyinfuriating in Account needed to customize my elite series 2
@LillianVS@lemmy.world avatar

Now when I feel they’re making “premium” products what they actually mean is:

An expensive product with quality features that would be fine on their own merits but have an app tacked on that nobody needed or asked for.

EliteCow , to linux in What are the main challenges in Linux adoption for New users, and how can it be addressed?
@EliteCow@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Whenever I try to go full Linux, 80% of the time I revert back to Windows due to lack of compatibility with games. The other 20% Is due to something breaking or being a pain in the ass to get working. Need to install a program? Here is a .deb file that you have to right click, allow execution. Then you go to execute it and it opens in a text document that has a run button that ends up taking 2 hours to load and ends up failing. Turns out you could go to terminal, CD to the file location and it seems to install.

But wait! 10 dependencies are missing.

Sentau ,

Need to install a program? Here is a .deb file that you have to right click, allow execution.

Don’t do this if you can avoid it. If you want to install something use the application store installed on your distro. This way the dependencies will be handled. Installing using a Deb file should be the last option or second last option

EliteCow ,
@EliteCow@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Hey thanks for this tip!

After being on Lemmy for the last month, it has really driven me to try out Linux again. I’ve spun up unbuntu (Desktop) on my home server and currently utilizing it as my docker host.

My server is a bare-metal host with ESXi so I’m interacting with it via the VMRC Client. This works great for doing what I am doing but the latency is a bit to much for using it for my day to day workload. if I could get a proper remote console setup using some native built in protocol that has low latency. I’d be happy to use it for my day to day operation on top of my Windows OS…any suggestions?

vanderbilt ,
@vanderbilt@beehaw.org avatar

Use screen sharing in gnome and RDP.

EliteCow ,
@EliteCow@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Silly me. I didn’t realize there was a prebaked setting already in Ubuntu… I’ll give this a shot! Thank you!

Cybersteel ,
@Cybersteel@lemmy.ml avatar

Or just AUR.

csm10495 , to programmerhumor in Gitar hero
@csm10495@sh.itjust.works avatar

It would be an awesome open source project to make a git repo with a graph that emulates a song in guitar hero.

Ultra980 ,

Some people have made subway maps of cities in git.

ohlaph , to linux in What are the main challenges in Linux adoption for New users, and how can it be addressed?

Most people buy computers with the OS already installed and would get just as lost trying to install MacOS or Windows.

bouh ,

This is the correct answer. If Linux was pre-installed, most problems would vanish. My Linux computers are far, far more stable than windows once they run.

CoderKat ,

The pre installation also means the OEM will verify compatibility, a common complaint.

Hextic , to linux in What are the main challenges in Linux adoption for New users, and how can it be addressed?

Preinstalled.

Like, were nerds and we fuck with our computers n stuff. But most people are lucky to know what a power cord is.

Honestly if Linux with a good DE like KDE or Cinnamon was already on their PC at boot they would figure it out. Most people just use a web browser anyways.

mainframegremlin , (edited )

This is definitely how I feel as well. None of the other shit matters unless it comes already on the machine. Even then, it absolutely has to be rock solid stable long term for it to be comparative. Of course that’s asking a lot, considering people still take their PCs into geek squad or wherever else when something goes wrong (or their printer won’t connect).

This always reminds me of the Dell XPS option of having Ubuntu installed but of course that’s far away from “Microsoft literally pays us to sell their shit”. So, until that - or some type of adoption occurs on a B&M level/online-storefront - it’s going to be pretty “voluntary” in terms of adoption. It’s just comparatively so much more work in the layman’s sense.

It’s in a weird way the same with cars. It’s been statistically proven that most people specifically won’t go out of their way to get a simple utility pickup truck. They buy the big fuck you truck because that’s what the dealerships have. It’s the same thing with kids going to college and the parents taking them to buy a laptop for class. My point is that it’s far more easier to just use what you get than try to rehash it. Maybe you don’t even know that’s a possibility so you just settle. Of course this isn’t the only issue, but imo the largest determining factor. IBM had businesses sucking from the teet since computers dropped, and we still deal with the ramifications.

Holzkohlen ,

I have my dad on Mint for years. Setup browser and email program and told him to click on that little shield and do updates when it’s there. You can set the shield icon to only appear in case of updates. I sometimes have to update between versions. I think he is still on 21.0 and now 21.2 is out already.

happyhippo ,

I have put my dad on Kubuntu. Don’t like anything *buntu, personally, but I have to admit it’s quite stable and with sane defaults. He hasn’t complained ever since and support calls dropped considerably. He spends most of the time in Firefox anyways, where I’ve added ublock.

The problem with Windows was, he’d occasionally browse the web with Edge by mistake (or because MS forces it down your throat), and as soon as an 80+ y.o. browses the web without ad blocking, getting a virus is just a matter of time.

All this is to say that I agree with the fact that preinstalled is key. I wish that more effort was focused on fewer distros and I feel that so much talent and energies are being lost in marginal projects.

But many people do this for passion and it’s of course their choice to decide where to contribute, or whether to spin up a brand new distro entirely, can’t judge them for that. I’m just observing that those energies could be better used to smoothen some rough edges on more popular distros to make them even more appealing to OEMs and convince them to ship those on their hardware.

shapis , to linux in What are the main challenges in Linux adoption for New users, and how can it be addressed?
@shapis@lemmy.ml avatar

It needs to “just work”. It’s not more complicated than that.

angrymouse ,

This, a lot of ppl talk about the pre installed thing but Linux has a lot of friction yet. Linux is big, it’s open and made to run in almost any device with an arm or x86 processor, yet Linux is usually a pain in the ass on edge cases and we cannot ignore. Some years ago dealing with drivers on Linux was a hell, today is better but still has edge cases (this is not a Linux fault usually, vendors are shit usually but it cause friction. Audio just recently was resolved with the adoption of pipewire but pulseaudio had a lot of caveats. Now we are getting rid of X11 that is great for usual usecases but is full of workarounds if you want to to a simple thing like having two monitors with different refresh rates. There is a lot of things but linux is going forward, last year I could made my full switch since gaming on Linux became a thing but definitely was not plug and play.

OberonSwanson , to memes in Tell me a story?
@OberonSwanson@sh.itjust.works avatar

On a cool, clear night (typical to Southern California) Warren G travels through his neighborhood, searching for women with whom he might initiate sexual intercourse. He has chosen to engage in this pursuit alone.

Nate Dogg, having just arrived in Long Beach, seeks Warren. Ironically, Nate passes a car full of women who are excited to see him. He insists to the women that there is no cause for excitement.

Warren makes a left at 21st Street and Lewis Ave, where he sees a group of young men enjoying a game of dice together. He parks his car and greets them. He is excited to find people to play with, but to his chagrin, he discovers they intend to relieve him of his material possessions. Once the hopeful thieves reveal their firearms, Warren realizes he is in a considerable predicament.

Meanwhile, Nate passes the women, as they are low on his list of priorities. His primary concern is locating Warren. After curtly casting away the strumpets (whose interest in Nate was such that they crashed their automobile), he serendipitously stumbles upon his friend, Warren G, being held up by the young miscreants.

Warren, unaware that Nate is surreptitiously observing the scene unfold, is in disbelief that he’s being robbed. The perpetrators have taken jewelry and a name brand designer watch from Warren, who is so incredulous that he asks what else the robbers intend to steal. This is most likely a rhetorical question.

Observing these unfortunate proceedings, Nate realizes that he may have to use his firearm to deliver his friend from harm.

The tension crescendos as the robbers point their guns to Warren’s head. Warren senses the gravity of his situation. He cannot believe the events unfolding could happen in his own neighborhood. As he imagines himself escaping in a surreal fashion, he catches a glimpse of his friend, Nate.

Nate has seventeen cartridges (sixteen residing in the pistol’s magazine, with a solitary round placed in the chamber and ready to be fired) to expend on the group of robbers. Afterward, he generously shares the credit for neutralizing the situation with Warren, though it is clear that Nate did all of the difficult work. Putting congratulations aside, Nate quickly reminds himself that he has committed multiple homicides to save Warren before letting his friend know that there are females nearby if he wishes to fornicate with them.

Warren recalls that it was the promise of copulation that coaxed him away from his previous activities, and is thankful that Nate knows a way to satisfy these urges. Nate quickly finds the women who earlier crashed their car on Nate’s account. He remarks to one that he is fond of her physical appeal. The woman, impressed by Nate’s singing ability, asks that he and Warren allow her and her friends to share transportation. Soon, both friends are driving with automobiles full of women to the East Side Motel, presumably to consummate their flirtation in an orgy.

The third verse is more expository, with Warren and Nate explaining their G Funk musical style. Warren displays his bravado by daring anyone to approach the style. There follows a brief discussion of the genre’s musicological features, with special care taken to point out that in said milieu the rhythm is not in fact the rhythm, as one might assume, but actually the bass. Similarly the bass serves a purpose closer to that which the treble would in more traditional musical forms. Nate displays his bravado by claiming that individuals with equivalent knowledge could not even attempt to approach his level of lyrical mastery. Nate goes on to note that if any third party smokes as he does, they would find themselves in a state of intoxication almost daily (from Nate’s other works, it can be inferred that the substance referenced is marijuana). Nate concludes his delineation of the night by issuing a threat to “busters,” suggesting that he and Warren will further “regulate” any potential incidents in the future (presumably by engaging their antagonists with small arms fire).

MJKee9 ,

Well put. Top drawer I say!

OberonSwanson ,
@OberonSwanson@sh.itjust.works avatar

Tip of my top-hat to you as well.

JiraiyaIsNoLyah ,

Is there a community dedicated to doing this?

OberonSwanson ,
@OberonSwanson@sh.itjust.works avatar

I really wish there was.

dingus ,
@dingus@lemmy.ml avatar

Sadly, I think this is no longer on Wikipedia. One of the oldest copypastas.

OberonSwanson ,
@OberonSwanson@sh.itjust.works avatar

It should’ve stayed up on the Wiki, but always assumed it was a copyright issue claim.

housepanther , to cat in Good people
@housepanther@lemmy.goblackcat.com avatar

Agreed! Very good. If I could do one thing right now, just one thing, I would start a cat rescue non-profit. The trouble is at my present mental and physical health, such an adventure is impossible because I depend on the benefits and economic stability that my employment in state government provides for me. But I can still dream.

Facelikeapotato OP ,
@Facelikeapotato@lemmy.ml avatar

I feel you! I volunteered at a cat shelter years ago when I was unemployed, it was one of the best things I’ve done. Sure, you have to deal with stinky litter and cleaning enclosures, but the kitties were so happy to get cuddles and play.

housepanther ,
@housepanther@lemmy.goblackcat.com avatar

I honestly never minded cleaning litter boxes. I still volunteer two Saturdays a month at mine. There was this one kitten we named Maddie which is sort of after me because my name in real life is Matt. She was my little shadow. She had the most pitifully sad meow that tugs at the heart strings. Anyhow, when I would come she would meow really loudly to sleep in my hoodie hand warming pocket while I cleaned litter boxes and food bowls. She eventually got adopted by a sweet little girl whom I know will cherish her.

Kushia , to linux in What are the main challenges in Linux adoption for New users, and how can it be addressed?
@Kushia@lemmy.ml avatar
  1. All of the basics should just work well out of the box with minimal tweaking. Yes even NVIDIA stuff.
  2. The software center needs a massive overhaul. It feels like an afterthought by people who would rather use a command line.
Narwhalrus ,

Im not sure the software center being half baked is even the real problem.

One of the nice things about Windows is that you dont need a central, curated, repository for software. You can google the thing you want and just download an msi/exe of the latest stable version and, 99.9% of the time, leading back to your first point, it will just work.

this_is_router ,
@this_is_router@feddit.de avatar

What? That is easiest one of the worst parts of windows. It’s just that people are used to this dumb endeavour

Narwhalrus ,

Why do you think its bad? From a secruity standpoint its obviously not great, but its undeniably more convenient than running a curl command to pull in a third party .repo file, yum update and yum install to get something that isnt easily available in my base repos.

wolo ,

Flatpak and AppImage are trying to make that easier, since they both work the same on pretty much any distro, but not everything is packaged that way yet.

Flatpak is closer to the typical package manager model, where you install things from a graphical store or the command line, while AppImages are self-contained binaries that you download from the developer and run as-is without installing.

Snaps also exist, but they don’t work well outside of Ubuntu and its descendants…

ZIRO ,
@ZIRO@lemmy.world avatar

I like Flatpak for what it is. It’s great. But I wish that the application IDs weren’t so long.

wolo ,

I think if they were categories instead of reverse domain names, it would at least be easier to remember. As it is now they’re mostly just meaningless, and I think it would be better if you could refer to apps with only the last part as long as it wouldn’t create a name collision.

this_is_router ,
@this_is_router@feddit.de avatar

Nothing more convenient then a central “app store”. apt search, apt install is all I need. But I undersntd that people don’t like it, that don’t know it.

What’s convenient about googling for software, downloading ominous files and clicking through an install wizard and most likely installing some adware and unwanted search bars? It’s crazy people see it like that.

Even the other posters in this thread are talking about flatpak and appimage. I’ll never understand that way of thought.

robbomodemman ,
@robbomodemman@mastodon.social avatar

@Narwhalrus you can also use winget (built into Win 11) or chocolatey to install most any software package now, similar to apt.

Narwhalrus ,

Yep. I use both quite a bit. Chocolatey is great!

The point Im trying to make is package managers are better suited for developers and the lack of a great alternative for installing software on the distros I’ve used is not helping with the mass appeal of Linux.

I could be wrong here as I’ve never tried any of the “home computer” distros (mint, ubuntu).

neo ,
@neo@lemmy.comfysnug.space avatar

Doesn’t seem to have stopped people on Android and iPhone from figuring it out!

SexualPolytope ,
@SexualPolytope@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

This. I don’t get this complaint some people make. I’ve literally never heard anyone complaining about the existence of app stores on mobile devices.

theshatterstone54 ,

Yeah, and they’re great, but I dare you to show me a Windows user that has used these, who’s not technically inclined or a developer.

NettoHikari ,
@NettoHikari@social.fossware.space avatar

That’s a pretty bad point you made there. Imagine having to google for each app on your smartphone and tell me how that’s better.

What about the scammy search results that point to malware infected sites?

What about stability and security updates for the software you obtained that way? Every software will have it’s own update mechanism, if there’s one at all.

How is it not better to install or update all software on the computer with a single click or command?

LucyLastic ,

Yeah, the descriptions and lack of curation is really weird … browse games and oh look here’s 27 varieties of reversi and a driving game that crashes on launch.

If it were a curated list with enthusiastic and helpful descriptions it would make it more accessible to use. Get the mature and professional looking programs front and center.

Much as I hate to say it, it could do with a makeover from someone with a sense of marketing. (Excuse me for a second, I felt a little nauseous saying that).

terminhell , to linux in What are the main challenges in Linux adoption for New users, and how can it be addressed?

Speaking from experience, from a long time ago, and from the people/family I’ve installed it for on older machines: It’s different. That’s 90% of it.

The people that had little to no windows/PC experience actually took to Linux a lot easier not having to relearn/change habits from windows.

MisterD ,

Correct. It’s lack of familiarity. Once Linux gets around 10-15% market share, enough people who know the quirks of Linux to help new people who then Linux will be big.

NettoHikari ,
@NettoHikari@social.fossware.space avatar

Yes, I had my mom start with Linux and she’s confused when she has to use Windows.

Simplesyrup , to lemmyshitpost in me (both)
@Simplesyrup@lemmy.ml avatar

Just like that one video with a dude saying “I love you m9mmy” to his gf

HurlingDurling , to linux in What are the main challenges in Linux adoption for New users, and how can it be addressed?

Ok, so I have an ASUS Zephyrus M16 with a Core i19 12th Gen and an rtx 3070. I was able to install fedora and able to get it mostly 100% working, but my two biggest issues where I could not play Destiny 2 (because they didn’t want to support Linux and actually would ban players who tried), and the switch between egpu and the discrete gpu that you have to reboot for the changes to take effect. Every once in a while the display wouldn’t work and I had to reboot multiple times before it would start to work again because of the aforementioned issues with the gpu. All in all I love Linux but I can’t spend any time troubleshooting and just need a laptop that just works.

bear ,

Have you set it up per asus-linux.org? These guys do amazing work to make ASUS laptops feel like first class citizens on Linux in both kernel patches and software. Strongly recommend, only takes a few minutes on Fedora if you’re already installed and up to date. You should be able to get working Optimus and less GPU issues.

Can’t help ya with Destiny though, they’re just jerks.

HurlingDurling ,

Thanks for the info but yeah that’s the guide I followed and even they mention driver caveats

vd1n , to linux in What are the main challenges in Linux adoption for New users, and how can it be addressed?

I mean… Is Linux even a challenge to anyone that just needs basic stuff? (Ubuntu, fedora, etc)

I only have trouble trying to install shit that’s not in repos.

curiousgoo ,

Keeping the discussion of running Windows applications through Wine/Proton aside; there are a lot of little things which happen to annoy me while I am using my PopOS install for example the most recent one is my headphones don’t play any sound from the left year, it works properly on my other devices…

I’m willing to make it work, but most general users wouldn’t be. This statement continues to be true even after the huge amounts of progress Linux community has made to make a better experience.

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