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ladybird.org

unlawfulbooger , to technology in Announcing the Ladybird Browser Initiative

They’re making a new browser engine from scratch in an open way, absolutely amazing!

I do have several questions:

Why would they use BSD instead of GPL? If you care about open-source so much, why would you make it possible for a company to run away with your fancy new engine?

Why are they creating a new browser, when even firefox has to struggle to keep some semblance of market share? I get that not every project needs to aim to be “the biggest”, and that even a smaller project (in terms of users), can be fun. It’s just that writing a browser engine that can handle the modern web seems like an almost Sisyphean task; which makes me wonder what their motivation(?) is.

Why the FLOSS are they using closed-source proprietary discord as their main communication channel?

ggppjj ,

As someone who uses BSD licensed modified code at work and relies on it quite a lot, it’s crucial to me choosing which projects I’m able to use in the first place.

Personally, I prefer a license that allows for commercial use in the way that companies need them to, and if my own work ever can provide a patch back upstream I’d be happy to do so, but most of what I do is just tweaking things that exist to suit my purposes which doesn’t really help anyone but my business rivals which I personally am not interested in doing if I don’t have to.

I prefer to have the freedom to do as I wish with the code, as compared to being bound to do as the author wishes and essentially just not using that code in the first place because I can’t. I’m not in a position to change what I can and can’t do because of the requirements of the business I work for, and I’m grateful to those that choose licenses that allow me to use their work.

They’re creating a new browser because they want to. It started as an OS building project that the lead dev did to help stay sober.

They use discord because it’s popular. Insert Ouroborus argument here, and at the end of the day it’s still the most popular app.

tron ,
@tron@midwest.social avatar

They use discord because it’s popular. Insert Ouroborus argument here, and at the end of the day it’s still the most popular app.

Using this logic why shouldn’t I just download chrome and forget this project exists?

ggppjj ,

Depending on your use case, maybe you should. If your use case is “using the internet today securely”, then you definitely should.

I’m not trying to create a logical puzzle that teasing the right details out of will solve, I’m not even advocating for or against their decision, discord fuckin sucks shit and I can’t wait for element to continue to mature towards enough feature parity that a switch is seamless so that I can actually convince my friends to switch too, I’m reporting a reality of life on the internet today.

Diabolo96 OP ,
  1. (BSD vs GPL) Andreas stated on twitter that he wanted to give devs total freedom to use his work because when he worked at Apple he felt frustrated he couldn’t incorporate some code/software into his work because of GPL.
  2. (Why?) The aim is not to create a chrome competitor, but to make a good enough, truly free browser that isn’t either chrome or funded by chrome. A browser made for and by its user’s.
  3. (Discord) Because of gen-z.
merthyr1831 , to technology in Announcing the Ladybird Browser Initiative

It would be nice if people read the post and the project before randomly making assumptions such as implying the project started from scratch yesterday or its run by some amateurs, this is a 4 year old project! It’s founded by a former KHTML/Webkit developer for Apple!

Diabolo96 OP ,

If only.

solrize , to technology in Announcing the Ladybird Browser Initiative

It’s hard to understand the purpose of this. The difficulty of the project (i.e. complexity of the web) is the real problem that needs solving. We don’t need another fork of the browser-verse. We need a fork of the web itself.

Lost_My_Mind ,

They have a fork of the web. Its called the dark web. They use it to sell hookers and drugs.

Diabolo96 OP ,

We also have a fork of money, it’s called crypto and it’s used to sell and buy hookers and drugs. Every fork of something end up used to buy hookers and drugs. Truly marvelous!

Lost_My_Mind ,

I mean…yes?

shortwavesurfer ,

It’s also used to buy baking pans, dove soap, coffee makers, and toasters. Xmrbazaar.com

boonhet ,

Uhhhhhhhhhh

How many of those listings are code for something?

shortwavesurfer ,

None that I’m aware of. I guess it’s possible, but I have not seen it be the case yet.

Edit: I can tell you for a fact that the ones I’m listing are legitimate. And if you don’t believe me, try purchasing one with the multi-signature escrow.

xmrbazaar.com/user/shortwavesurfer2009

smileyhead ,

Dark web should really be called dark or overlay Internet.

All dark “web” browser use the same rendering engines and same spec as regular ones.

turkalino ,
@turkalino@lemmy.yachts avatar

Considering how much Google has entrenched itself into the Internet (see manifest v3 fiasco), I would argue that creating a new browser is a fork of the web

asdfasdfasdf , to technology in Announcing the Ladybird Browser Initiative

C++

If they’re starting a browser from scratch, why would they not have chosen Rust? Seems very short sighted to not have learned from Firefox.

maxinstuff ,
@maxinstuff@lemmy.world avatar

Must be planning on actually shipping something

/s

asdfasdfasdf ,

Ship what, segfaults / invalid memory access? Lol

boonhet ,

CVEs lol

ProdigalFrog ,

They used c++ initially since it was spawned from SerenityOS, which was designed to be a mashup of win2000 and unix.

now that Ladybird is its own project, it’s not constrained to that goal, and they have said they will incorporate modern languages.

asdfasdfasdf ,

Glad to hear that!

Fitik ,
@Fitik@fedia.io avatar

@asdfasdfasdf There's Servo ( @servo ), it's a browser engine written in rust

@Diabolo96

asdfasdfasdf ,

Yes, that’s what I’m referring to. They could build on that, or they could write something their own in Rust. But I’d think building on Servo would be fantastic.

Diabolo96 OP ,

I know about servo. It was pretty much a dead project until they joined the Linux fondation last year and started getting some sponsorship. Since then, they being doing pretty good on there own with personal donations rising by around 20% each month, reaching more than 2000$ monthly. Wish them all the best!

HKayn ,
@HKayn@dormi.zone avatar
Caligvla , to technology in Announcing the Ladybird Browser Initiative
@Caligvla@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

I hope this pans out, because I’ve long ago lost hope on Firefox being a worthy alternative to Chromium.

Transform2942 ,

Have you used Firefox recently? There are a few chrome only sites but I’ve been daily driving it for a few months and it’s mostly upside

PopOfAfrica ,

I can no longer play any podcast hosted on Apple podcasts, which is a distressing amount of them.

They work just fine in Chromium.

Transform2942 ,

Fair enough, I capitulated and I use spotify for podcasts now

PopOfAfrica ,

The only reason I dont use spoitfy, which one particular show was available on both, is because it doesnt support my RSS feed.

ianovic69 ,
@ianovic69@feddit.uk avatar

Try Antenna.

Petter1 ,

You can use the app cider for that (Oh, it is a Electron app 😂🙈)

boonhet ,

Huh, I just went to the website to try and it worked for me

PopOfAfrica ,

No clue, I guess I’m just not lucky. It doesn’t work on either my phone or my desktop

noxy ,
@noxy@yiffit.net avatar

Firefox has been perfectly capable for the entire time it has existed. What are you talking about?

linearchaos , to technology in Announcing the Ladybird Browser Initiative
@linearchaos@lemmy.world avatar

It’ll be interesting to see how this plays out. I’ve had more than a handful of people bitching at me that it’s impossible to make a new, open web browser in this day.

Diabolo96 OP , (edited )

Their rendering engine is already pretty solide (see penultimate video in their channel). Now that their “no third party code” restriction is lifted, they can actually focus on building a browser engine instead of recreating 30 years worth of technologies from scratch.

brbposting ,
FractalsInfinite ,

Interestingly the founder of the project seems to explicitly disagree with that article

Toes , to technology in Announcing the Ladybird Browser Initiative

Kudos to them. Opera gave up on this dream being unable to accommodate all the nuances of web standards and accounting for out of conformance behaviours that many websites rely on the daily.

I reckon this browser will need to be at least on par with reasonably recent version of Firefox to see significant adoption.

pentagrammar ,

I still mourn the death of Presto-days Opera.

kamen ,

I do too. What a joke the browser became after moving to Chromium… I remember it didn’t even have bookmarks in the first version.

On the flip side I kind of understand the decision to pull the plug - if you’ve looked at Browser.js and think that potentially any site might need a fix to work properly…

bobc7 , to technology in Announcing the Ladybird Browser Initiative
@bobc7@lemmy.world avatar

is it open source?

infeeeee ,
hamsterkill , to technology in Announcing the Ladybird Browser Initiative

Best of luck, I guess, but seems like a doomed project to me. Forking WebKit, Gecko, or even Servo would seem much more reasonable, and even that is a huge undertaking.

MigratingtoLemmy ,

Contributing directly to Firefox and reducing the dependence on Google should be three best bet

mynamesnotrick , to technology in Announcing the Ladybird Browser Initiative

Laaaaaaaaa^dybird.^

c0smokram3r ,
@c0smokram3r@midwest.social avatar

The comment I came here for 🐶

Assman ,
@Assman@sh.itjust.works avatar

We’re gonna have to put laaaaaaaadybird down… Mr Hill?

Xeroxchasechase , to technology in Announcing the Ladybird Browser Initiative

Good luck!

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