Yeah, I’ve given up trying to know all the libraries in my projects. I feel like the added development speed and code quality is just so good that not taking the risk of a supply chain attack is basically not an option.
I do try to primarily use libraries from the Rust team or from more widely known devs (and hope that they also do that), but most projects worth doing will need one or two specialty libraries where all bets and bus factors are off…
You think your code is higher quality with more dependencies? All you’re doing is offloading complexity to a separate project.
If you make a program that does “something worth doing”, but you need some specialty library to actually do it (which you didn’t implement yourself), than sorry, but it wasn’t you who did it.
Yes, offloading complexity to a separate project which has already invested more time into code quality than I could possibly justify.
As for your second point, I don’t care who solved the problem. If you care, I hope you’re smelting your own sand to build your own CPU and assembly language. But I’m obviously also not solving the exact same problem as the library already solved.
My problem was with the first line of your comment:
Yeah, I’ve given up trying to know all the libraries in my projects.
This leads me to assume that you don’t actually know that those dependencies are as well maintained as you claim.
Obviously dependencies are important and make sense to use in many cases, but using trivial dependencies to speed up development isn’t good.
As for your second point, I don’t care who solved the problem. If you care, I hope you’re smelting your own sand to build your own CPU and assembly language. But I’m obviously also not solving the exact same problem as the library already solved.
I was just saying it isn’t you who solved the problem in that case, really, as the hard work was done for you. Honestly though, it was pointless and rude so I apologise.
This leads me to assume that you don’t actually know that those dependencies are as well maintained as you claim.
Well, I can’t guarantee that none of them are buggy, unmaintained etc… But that’s why I prefixed that sentence with “I feel”.
On average, it seems to me like the code quality is a good bit higher than I’m able to produce under money/time constraints.
In particular, even the worst libraries tend to be not as bad as they may be in many other languages, because Rust’s strict type system + compiler enforces quite a bit of correctness on its own.
Well, and the good libraries are just obsessed with correctness and performance, so they drag code quality upwards, even if they introduce a mild risk of a transitive dependency being a dud…
This assumes that I could implement something as well as the maintainers of the library I use. I agree that something trivially should be implemented on your own, but if there is special knowledge required (the obvious example is cryptography, but also something like HTTP requests) I rather rely on a widely used library than my own code that I now have to maintain and check for security issues instead of just updating the dependency version whenever a CVE is published.
Also if there is. A client by an API provider for my language, why shouldn’t I use it instead of rolling my own?
Another example is a framework like React or Angular or Svelte, which brings along a whole lot of dependencies. Sure, I could not use something like that and write everything from scratch.
But where is the value of all that code to customers? If I want to roll my own HTTP server up from the sockets, I can do that as a play project. But not using libraries for a real world project to solve business needs is a bit of an odd take.
Anyways, that’s enough of a rant. Have fun in the replies. 😎
This sounds like you want to prove something. That you can do it better than the maintainers of the library. That you can solve hard problems on your own instead of relying on other people.
That’s all great and sometimes it’s good to do hard things on your own and make sure you could do it just in case. But it’s not always necessary to do everything yourself and learn every lesson yourself. It’s a valid way to build on knowledge and work of others to achieve your goals.
Holy shit this. I’ve observed a lot of competent devs go through that phase, trying to be clever and come up with what inevitably ends up being pale imitations of existing established solutions. Yes, we do avoid pulling in dependencies when we can avoid it, but this reeks of “Real Programmers Don’t Use Pascal”, without the tongue in cheek tone lol
I find it especially weird that it’s almost always labeled like something special if it’s written in Rust, even though as the end user the only thing I know will be different is the compile time, as it usually takes around 10-20 times longer than if it would be written in c, with 500 dependencies being pulled and recompiled every time. Which means if tests fail, even though the app works fine, and I had that happen twice in Rust, it will take three tries or so until I manage to fully remove the test section from the pkgbuild, resulting in an hour loss for just installing something that could’ve taken 5 minutes.
It’s just weirdly noticeable when one rust program with ~150 lines of code, designed to connect to a specific device and send commands according to the intensity of music, takes longer to compile than updating a typical Arch testing setup after a month without maintenance, including the (non Rust) AUR packages.
Well, I’m not here to claim that Rust’s compile times aren’t comparatively long, especially for non-incremental builds. It’s a trade-off that was chosen to not need a runtime environment, nor be as simplistic/footgun as C.
What I’m saying is that this trade-off was chosen and continues to be popular, because the vast majority of users will never notice (nor will programmers really, as they have incremental builds).
Maybe you can download the fully built package from somewhere? Maybe Arch can package it in the proper repos?
Every time I see a project decide to use rust I groan knowing my build/packaging time is about to skyrocket. Case in point, the Python cryptography project.
And given cryptography’s importance in the Python ecosystem what used to be an easy pip install of a package now almost always going to include is an enormous and horribly slow rust build environment.
I seem to recall when the switch was made it took me about a week to figure out how get it to work on OpenBSD, because the Rust build step failed there (for a reason I can’t remember now).
Yeeap. My FreeBSD box has such pain with 'em. Because unfortunately *bsd is not in Python’s precompiled wheels. So one is almost building from the source.
Now every time I pip install something there’s a high likelihood I’m going to end up having to install the rust tool chain and burn so much time on building libraries. I get why the project made the switch, but man does it hurt being downstream of it.
We so appreciate your efforts, but ya’ll need more funding so you can start working smart and not hard. From the looks of things, I see no reason why page flips can’t be automated there.
I just made a donation. Please use it to save this poor woman from the tedious task you’ve shown us today.
I think this is one of those things that seems like it should be easy to automate, but actually has lots of hidden complexity.
They probably don’t use this to scan commonly available books, because for those you can just cut the spine off the book and scan the pages in a regular scanner.
This is likely used for books that need to be preserved and can’t be damaged during the scanning process.
How do you make a machine that will always turn exactly one page and never tear a page, while adapting for different page sizes and thicknesses, and avoiding the static charge that can make pages stick together? All for less money than it costs to pay people to operate this machine.
It’s kind of shitty to ‘out’ someone like this on a tv program. If they liked doing cocaine that’s their business. But I also know that’s the point of the program probably.
Or do. I’m not your mother. Cocaine is great if you can exhibit self control and get lucky with the roll of the genetic dice and don’t immediately get addicted from one night partying.
Don’t mainline drugs. Don’t fuck with heavy opiates or meth. Stay away from homemade pressed pills. That’s where most people die from fent poisoning in America.
Because someone went out of their way to mutilate a video for no reason, so I’m gonna go out of my way to make it right. Just because you can’t be bothered to care doesn’t mean everyone else is just like you.
You could say the same thing about a video recording of a pc monitor. Yeah all the necessary stuff is there but you also lose a lot may it be quality or just more pixels which give greater context to the video by showing more of the actual recording
With the full size recording you can see more of the machine which is part of the main subject so it’s not just meaningless data/context either
I’m with you but it’s not about being lazy, just like shit audio being on most videos these days this is yet another symptom of tiktok bullshit.
Videos with shit sounds get more traction and tiktok wants every video to be scrollable without havin to turn your phone and shit so the result is trash like this getting pumped out which ruins the actual video content
May I bring my son to visit? I know it’s typically only for events. He will crack up at the statues and be underwhelmed by the two racks containing the entire Internet.
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