barbarosa

barbarosa , 9 months ago to world in Gaza society 'on brink of full-blown collapse' says UN official

I think Palestinians are very much conceived as the victims today world wide. And I think they are playing that card well and I don’t blame them for that.

I didn’t want to go to “who started it” because it’s a useless debate. The cycle has been going for decades with casualties on both ends.

I’m very much capable of empathy. This whole thread is about the Israel Hamas war so I steered the discussion back to that topic.

I am very sad about the current state of affairs, there’s immense suffering on both ends and it’s not going to stop anytime soon. I don’t hate Palestinians. As an expat Israeli, every time I see a Palestinian abroad we usually become friends and naturally have more in common.

barbarosa , 9 months ago to world in Gaza society 'on brink of full-blown collapse' says UN official

I’m saying exactly that, there’s a propaganda echo chamber and information on the other side is very little so not sure where we disagree on that

barbarosa , 9 months ago to world in Gaza society 'on brink of full-blown collapse' says UN official

Do you just want to troll or have a meaningful discussion?

barbarosa , 9 months ago to world in Gaza society 'on brink of full-blown collapse' says UN official

I can see you are washed with hatred, I don’t blame you.

I can tell you many stories about Israeli peace activists that were affected by all this as well, like this guy for example: marketwatch.com/…/israeli-exec-who-hired-palestin…

He hired engineers from Gaza and the west bank to try and foster peace through work and his daughter was murdered on Oct 7th. He still hasn’t given up on hope.

If you only choose to hate, you continue to cycle

barbarosa , 9 months ago to world in Gaza society 'on brink of full-blown collapse' says UN official

No, each side is in a propaganda echo chamber.

No death or suffering is more or less important than others.

No one ( well, almost no one) in Israel wants to see innocent civilians getting killed.

barbarosa , 9 months ago to world in Gaza society 'on brink of full-blown collapse' says UN official

I condemn all such behavior. Extremists on both sides are setting the tone unfortunately. I can assure you that Israelis are asking the same questions as they keep seeing the videos of rape and murder in a loop since October 7.

barbarosa , 9 months ago to world in Gaza society 'on brink of full-blown collapse' says UN official

I think you’re giving too much discount for the Palestinians for their current state or affairs and make it sound like everything that happened to them was done to them by Israel only. Both you and I know that is not true. A lot of things could and should have been handled differently, the same of course can be said for Israel. So try to get out of the position for a moment and see that there are a lot of things Palestinians can do to try and change their situation, regardless of any shitty behavior by Israel.

barbarosa , 9 months ago to world in Gaza society 'on brink of full-blown collapse' says UN official

Unfortunately everything you said about israel is true, as an (expat) Israeli I see the current conflict only drives us further from any solution and more bloodshed in the future is almost certain.

Regarding Hamas, it’s a fundamentalist jihadistic group that will not stop until the complete annihilation of all the Jews, with that I’m certain as they are saying exactly that. However they can be overthrown, that is what this war is about. Who will replace them ? No idea. Might be even worse…

There are many good people on both ends that want to live in peace. Unfortunately the leadership is bad, driven by extremists and the politics are horrible (at least on Israel’s side, don’t know much about PA)

barbarosa , 9 months ago to world in Gaza society 'on brink of full-blown collapse' says UN official

Palestinians should agree to get their own country and rule it themselves. Why would they be starved and killed ? Not sure I follow. No one should be starved or killed.

And regarding Hamas - Israel cannot coexist next to it. Since Palestinians will not remove Hamas, who else will do it ? Egypt ? The rest of the Arab world ? Israel is left to do it unfortunately. I would like to see any other country in the middle east handle a situation like that… Think they would eliminate Hamas with 0 civilian casualties?

barbarosa , 9 months ago to world in Gaza society 'on brink of full-blown collapse' says UN official

Jews have lived in this land for many generations as well and equally have the right for that land as well. That’s not to say that they should drive whoever lived there out. They were offered full citizenship and their own full sovereign country which they didn’t have before but they refused and instead declared war.

barbarosa , 9 months ago to world in Gaza society 'on brink of full-blown collapse' says UN official

Okay. Seems like you’re under the delusion that if Israel had an open free border with Gaza, like in the EU, peace would break in the region

barbarosa , 9 months ago to world in Gaza society 'on brink of full-blown collapse' says UN official

Given the chance, I would immediately start negotiations for two states solution but that will never happen in the current climate.

barbarosa , 9 months ago to world in Gaza society 'on brink of full-blown collapse' says UN official

I do not brush aside the suffering of Palestinians. Both populations are screwed over by bad leadership.

However, Hamas started this one by murdering and kidnapping women and children and doing horrendous things. Israel has the right to retaliate. They should do so with the least amount of casualties.

Unfortunately, in the long run, this gets no one closer to nowhere.

barbarosa , 9 months ago to world in Gaza society 'on brink of full-blown collapse' says UN official

Personally, I definitely support the right of Palestinians to exist. They should have their own state and live peacefully side by side to Israel. Unfortunately both Israelis and Palestinians are plagued by horrible leadership that prevent any of this from happening

barbarosa , 9 months ago to world in Gaza society 'on brink of full-blown collapse' says UN official

I agree with your analysis of Israel. I don’t see much hope for change there, unfortunately and looks like this sentiment will only grow stronger from now on. However the discussion was around Hamas specifically. They don’t want to live in peace alongside Israel. They completely deny the concept of Israel and will not stop until the last Jew is driven out. Can’t justify that either