TCB13

TCB13 , 5 months ago to linux in Linux Running on an NES?

Well. Linux on the Dreamcast seems more interesting. Or NetBSD.

TCB13 , 5 months ago to linux in NetBSD - thoughts?

Pretty much like all Debian forks. They’re all forked from Debian because of conflicts between developers / different ways of seeing things. :P

TCB13 , 5 months ago (edited 5 months ago) to selfhosted in Broadcom yanks ESXi Free version, effective immediately

So I’m kind of scared about the future of LXC and Incus. Do you have any more information about that?

Canonical decided to take LXD away from the Linux Containers initiative and “close it” by changing the license. Meanwhile most of the original team at Canonical that made both LXC and LXD into a real thing quit Canonical and are not working on Incus or somehow indirectly “on” the Linux Containers initiative.

no one else participating apart from Canonical devs.

Yes, because everyone is pushing code into Incus and the team at Canonical is now very, very small and missing the key people.

The future is bright and there’s money to make things happen from multiple sources. When it comes to the move from LXD to Incus I specifically asked stgraber about what’s going to happen in the future to the current Debian LXD users and this was his answer:

We’ve been working pretty closely to Debian on this. I expect we’ll keep allowing Debian users of LXD 5.0.2 to interact with the image server either until trixie is released with Incus available OR a backport of Incus is made available in bookworm-backports, whichever happens first.

As you can see, even the LTS LXD version present on Debian 12 will work for a long time. Eventually everyone will move to Incus in Debian 13 and LXD will be history.

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Update: here’s an important part of the Incus release announcement:

The goal of Incus is to provide a fully community led alternative to Canonical’s LXD as well as providing an opportunity to correct some mistakes that were made during LXD’s development which couldn’t be corrected without breaking backward compatibility.

In addition to Aleksa, the initial set of maintainers for Incus will include Christian Brauner, Serge Hallyn, Stéphane Graber and Tycho Andersen, effectively including the entire team that once created LXD.

TCB13 , 5 months ago to selfhosted in Broadcom yanks ESXi Free version, effective immediately

Also it’s weird that you take issue with Proxmox but not LXD. From what I read in the Incus initial announcement, what Canonical did with LXD is barely legal and definitely against the spirit of its license. Incus is a drop in replacement. Why even bring LXD up?

Mostly because we’re on a transition period from LXD into Incus. If you grab Debian 12 today you’ll get LXD 5.0.2 LTS from their repositories that is supported both by the Debian team and the Incus team. Most online documentation and help on the subject can also be found under “LXD” more easily. Everyone should be running Incus once Debian 13 comes along with it, but until then the most common choice is LXD from Debian 12 repositories. I was never, and will never suggest anyone to install/run LXD from Canonical.

It’s really the “Proxmox is fake open source” discourse I take issue with. I think it would be more helpful if you said “and you get all security updates for free with Incus, unlike Proxmox.” It’s a clear, factual message, devoid of a value judgement. People don’t like to be told what to think.

I won’t say I don’t get your point, I get it, I kinda pushed it a bit there and you’re right. Either way what stops Proxmox from doing the same thing BCM/ESXi did now? We’re talking about a for profit company and the alternative Incus sits behind the Linux Containers initiative that is effectively funded by multiple parties.

And, as far as micro to small installations go, TrueNAS is another alternative that plays well with open source (AFAIK). Unlikely to be used specifically for VMs or containers, but it’s a popular choice for home servers for a reason.

Yes, TrueNAS can be interesting for a lot of people and they also seem to want to move into the container use-case with TrueNAS Scale but that one is still more broken than useful.

TCB13 , 5 months ago to selfhosted in virtualizing PFSense. What else works besides ESXi for virtual networking?

It depends on how fast you want updates. I’m sure you know how Debian works, so if you install LXD from Debian 12 repositories you’ll be on 5.0.2 LTS most likely for ever. If you install from Zabbly you’ll get the latest and greatest right now.

My companies’ machines are all running LXD from Debian repositories, except for two that run from Zabbly for testing and whatnot. At home I’m running from Debian repo. Migration from LXD 5.0.2 to a future version of Incus with Debian 13 won’t be a problem as Incus is just a fork and stgraber and other members of the Incus/LXC projects work very closely or also work in Debian.

Debian users will be fine one way or the other. I specifically asked stgraber about what’s going to happen in the future and this was his answer:

We’ve been working pretty closely to Debian on this. I expect we’ll keep allowing Debian users of LXD 5.0.2 to interact with the image server either until trixie is released with Incus available OR a backport of Incus is made available in bookworm-backports, whichever happens first.

I hope this helps you decide.

TCB13 , 5 months ago to selfhosted in Broadcom yanks ESXi Free version, effective immediately

Thankfully, it’s been forked as incus, and debian is encouraging users to migrate.

Yes, the people running the original LXC and LXD projects under Canonical now work on Incus under the Linux Containers initiative. Totally insulated from potential Canonical BS. :)

The move from LXD to Incus should be transparent as it guarantees compatibility for now. But even if you install Debian 12 today and LXD from the Debian repository you’re already insulated from Canonical.

TCB13 , 5 months ago to selfhosted in Broadcom yanks ESXi Free version, effective immediately

besmirching their reputation on moral grounds doesn’t do anyone any favors.

I’m not sure if you came across my other comment about Proxmox (here) but unfortunately it isn’t just “besmirching their reputation on moral grounds”.

Also, I would like to add that a LOT of people use Proxmox to run containers and those containers are currently LXC containers. If one is already running LXC containers why not have the full experience and move to LXD/Incus that was made by the same people and designed specifically to manage LXC and later on VMs?

After all Proxmox jumps through hoops when managing LXC containers as they simply retrofitted both their kernel and pve-container / pct that were originally developed to manage OpenVZ containers.

TCB13 , 5 months ago to selfhosted in virtualizing PFSense. What else works besides ESXi for virtual networking?

Enjoy your 30 min of Incus :P

TCB13 , 5 months ago to selfhosted in Broadcom yanks ESXi Free version, effective immediately

Okay if you want to strictly look at licenses per si no issues there. But the rest of what I described I believe we can agree is very questionable, takes into questionable open-source.

TCB13 , 5 months ago to selfhosted in Broadcom yanks ESXi Free version, effective immediately

First they’re always nagging you to get a subscription. Then they make system upgrades harder for free customers. Then the gatekeep you from the enterprise repositories in true RedHat fashion and have important fixes from the pve-no-subscription repository multiple times.

TCB13 , 5 months ago to selfhosted in virtualizing PFSense. What else works besides ESXi for virtual networking?

I guess I’m not using proxmox for anything other than managing VMs, network bridges and backups.

And LXD/Incus can do that as well for you. Install it an by running incus init it will ask you a few questions and get an automated setup with networking, storage etc. all running and ready for you to create VMs/Containers.

What I was saying is that you can also ignore the default / automated setup and install things manually if you’ve other requirements.

TCB13 , 5 months ago to selfhosted in Broadcom yanks ESXi Free version, effective immediately

I’ve just found LXD to be lacking as you can’t live transfer it to a different host

It isn’t lacking… linuxcontainers.org/incus/docs/…/move_instances/#… but as with Proxmox there are details when it comes to containers. VMs can fully migrate live.

I was unable to get docker running in a unprivileged LXC container

What host OS are you running on? Did you set security.nesting true on said container?

TCB13 , 5 months ago to selfhosted in Broadcom yanks ESXi Free version, effective immediately

Sorry I meant high availability as in the ability to live transfer a VM to a different host without downtime or service interruptions.

Oh, my bad then. But yes, like Proxmox, LXD/Incus can do live migrations of VMs since 4.20 (2021 I believe). Live migration of containers can be done under specific circunstantes as well.

Are you using a container runtime in the LXC container? (i.e. docker or podman)

In some of them yes. At least under Debian as long as you’ve set security.nesting=true it will work fine.

TCB13 , 5 months ago to selfhosted in New home server: what hypervisor/OS?

Yes, no question there.

TCB13 , 5 months ago to selfhosted in Broadcom yanks ESXi Free version, effective immediately

While I get your point… I kind of can’t: lemmy.world/comment/7476411